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Merged: Why does everybody belive that RW is so valuable?

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rafael

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Why does everybody believe that RW is so valuable?

These are facts:

RW is a part-time starter (it doesn't matter if you believe he's better than RB or that he should be the feature back, he isn't used that way),

RW is one miscue away from being suspended,

RW has said that he plans to play no more than two more years.

On the plus side:

RW is a very good runningback,

RW has a low salary (relative to his talent).

These may not be facts but are at least conventional wisdom:

The QB position is more important and harder to fill than the rb position,

The QB position is a position of high priority need for the Dolphins,

Even without RW the rb position is not a position of high priority need for the Dolphins,

A full-time starter provides more production for a team than a part-ime starter (at comparably important positions).

Given theses facts and conventional wisdom how could anyone, who wants the team to succeed, be against trading RW for a starting QB? I can understand people not liking specific players like Carr, Garrard, Leinart, Young or Cutler, etc, but to flat out believe that RW is more valuable than a franchise QB just seems idiotic. Can any of you who believe that RW should not be traded "no matter what" give me an explanation for your apparant madness?
 
I have no idea why obviously so many people feel Ricky's value is so high. I'm seeing threads started where we trade Ricky and a 3rd for this Qb and Ricky and a 4th for that QB. Ricky essentially has no value to any team but the Dolphins. Nobody (unless the lions hire Spielman) will trade us anything at all for RW.
 
I don't think anyone has said that he shouldn't be traded "no matter what". I think what most people believe is -that for all the reasons you listed like being 1 positive test away from suspension- that his value to the Dolphins is greater than to another team. Is Ricky worth a 1st round pick? Talent wise-yes. We gave up 2 1st rounders for him and if he didn't retire no one would ever complain about that trade. Ricky being Ricky makes him worth no more than probably a 3rd round pick for most teams because they know you cannot plan on him being around much longer.

Personally, I think he's worth nothing less than a 2nd rounder/or part of a package deal to get a franchise QB. Think of it this way: Say he does retire after two more years in the league, that's two years of Ronnie Brown not taking a beating for those two years. It extends Brown's career.
 
I wouldnt say that Ricky has no value, I would say his value is approximately a 3rd round pick. I was shocked to see the results of the poll on if you would trade Ricky for Carr straight up. That is a no brainer, bring on Carr if all it takes is Ricky.
 
I think it's because many don't believe that we will get a starting qb for him, given his 1 toke away from a year long suspension or capacity to just walk away. His worth to other teams just isn't first round caliber, while he is worth much more to us than a 3rd or 4th round pick. Another pro is I believe it is good he is here while Ronnie acclimates to the NFL and by splitting carries will prolong Ronnie's career and value to us. I would like to see more of Vermeil's philosophy of using Ronnie for two series and Ricky for one. I don't think Ricky would have a problem with less carries and would justify us not giving him a huge raise and then he would be there as insurance.
 
KyPhinfan13 said:
I don't think anyone has said that he shouldn't be traded "no matter what". I think what most people believe is -that for all the reasons you listed like being 1 positive test away from suspension- that his value to the Dolphins is greater than to another team. Is Ricky worth a 1st round pick? Talent wise-yes. We gave up 2 1st rounders for him and if he didn't retire no one would ever complain about that trade. Ricky being Ricky makes him worth no more than probably a 3rd round pick for most teams because they know you cannot plan on him being around much longer.

Personally, I think he's worth nothing less than a 2nd rounder/or part of a package deal to get a franchise QB. Think of it this way: Say he does retire after two more years in the league, that's two years of Ronnie Brown not taking a beating for those two years. It extends Brown's career.
Click to expand...


Poll Results: Ricky Williams: Keep or Trade

Trade Ricky 18 11.11%
Keep Ricky no matter what 144 88.89%

Voters: 162.

This was a poll on this site. So yes many people have said keep RW "no matter what".
 
canesfins13 said:
I wouldnt say that Ricky has no value, I would say his value is approximately a 3rd round pick. I was shocked to see the results of the poll on if you would trade Ricky for Carr straight up. That is a no brainer, bring on Carr if all it takes is Ricky.
Click to expand...
I think his value to the Fins is probably more than a 3rd round pick. But to other teams, who don't have a 8.6 Mil dollar judgement to hold over his head, and would probably try to use him like we did during the WannSpiel era, and who don't have a head coach that can keep him in check, his value is very little.
 
rafael said:
These are facts:

RW is a part-time starter (it doesn't matter if you believe he's better than RB or that he should be the feature back, he isn't used that way),

RW is one miscue away from being suspended,

RW has said that he plans to play no more than two more years.

On the plus side:

RW is a very good runningback,

RW has a low salary (relative to his talent).

These may not be facts but are at least conventional wisdom:

The QB position is more important and harder to fill than the rb position,

The QB position is a position of high priority need for the Dolphins,

Even without RW the rb position is not a position of high priority need for the Dolphins,

A full-time starter provides more production for a team than a part-ime starter (at comparably important positions).

Given theses facts and conventional wisdom how could anyone, who wants the team to succeed, be against trading RW for a starting QB? I can understand people not liking specific players like Carr, Garrard, Leinart, Young or Cutler, etc, but to flat out believe that RW is more valuable than a franchise QB just seems idiotic. Can any of you who believe that RW should not be traded "no matter what" give me an explanation for your apparant madness?
Click to expand...

This will be, what, like the 100th time this has been discussed. Not that I am against discussion.

I think the crowd is split 50/50 - we all know his virtues and his liabilities, but you have to add these facts into the frey;
(a) I don't believe he can be traded with a legal judgement on him (I believe I read som legal beagle's opine on that)
(b) what team want's to take the RISK of RW slipping and failing a random, weekly (I think that redefines "random") drug screening?
(c) He is under contract for 1 more year at league minimum, at which time if he is still drug free, his stock goes up and you can get something of value for the trade.
(d) Let's presume that he can be traded with a legal judgement hanging over his head, is there a team that is gonna want to pay an extra $8.5MM in addition to salary and bonuses, which is not only acceptable to them, but to RW and his agent also?

Considering the above issues, I doubt that he "can" be traded.

But that's just my humble opinion.
 
its not that hes worth so much.......but hes not worth enough to trade....hes worth more with us.
 
RW is a part-time starter (it doesn't matter if you believe he's better than RB or that he should be the feature back, he isn't used that way),
Click to expand...

That does impact his value ot us, but not to other teams. No one thinks he can't be the full-time back.

RW is one miscue away from being suspended,

RW has said that he plans to play no more than two more years.
Click to expand...

I agree that those two, however, matter very much to other teams. Particularly the first. Can you imagine being the GM that gives up a lot for Ricky and then Ricky flunks a drug test? He'd be run out of town.

People who say we should get a first for Ricky, should just say they don't want to trade Ricky, cause a first isn't gonna happen.

RW is a very good runningback,

RW has a low salary (relative to his talent).
Click to expand...

True and true, though I think the second will change somewhat this offseason. He'll still be a value, though.

The QB position is more important and harder to fill than the rb position,

The QB position is a position of high priority need for the Dolphins,

Even without RW the rb position is not a position of high priority need for the Dolphins,
Click to expand...

Agreed on all counts.

Given theses facts and conventional wisdom how could anyone, who wants the team to succeed, be against trading RW for a starting QB? I can understand people not liking specific players like Carr, Garrard, Leinart, Young or Cutler, etc, but to flat out believe that RW is more valuable than a franchise QB just seems idiotic. Can any of you who believe that RW should not be traded "no matter what" give me an explanation for your apparant madness?
Click to expand...

It totally depends on the deal and on the quarterback. To blanketly say no is madness, just as it is crazy to blanketly say yes.

I will add one thing... as a general rule this board is way overly harsh on other team's quarterbacks. It defies all sense. You have people that don't like McNair, Culpepper (independent of his injuries), Young, Leinart... it's crazy. People will come in a flat out say that those four suck.

You don't want to be Speilman and think that the grass is always greener, but it is equally bad to dismiss other team's players as trash and think drafting a quarterback is a guranteed success.

So people are over-valuing Ricky Williams mostly because they are UNDERVALUING players we could acquire.
 
phinpunk14 said:
I'm ready to trade him just because I don't expect him to play at all past next year.
Click to expand...

Not to be too harsh, but that is totally dirth of logic. If he is only going to play one more year AND we have him under contract for league minimum, why wouldn't you keep him? He is an invaluable asset to help teach/mentor Ronnie and who in the heck else is going to take him if THEY ALSO KNOW that he isn't going to play past next year?

Duh.... big red truck!?
 
I think he is more valuable to us than he is to another team because he is so cheap for us to keep. Having him as a more than competent back up allowed us to win a couple games this year when Ronnie was out. We know what we have in Ricky, and for more than fair price. Trading him for one of those possible franchise QB is only a gamble.
 
FinzFan said:
Not to be too harsh, but that is totally dirth of logic. If he is only going to play one more year AND we have him under contract for league minimum, why wouldn't you keep him? He is an invaluable asset to help teach/mentor Ronnie and who in the heck else is going to take him if THEY ALSO KNOW that he isn't going to play past next year?

Duh.... big red truck!?
Click to expand...

I was referring to the question about trading ricky straight up for carr. Not his trade value in general. Probably should have clarified that.

Edit: While we're on the subject, the word is spelled dearth and it is a noun, not an adjective. It should be " that is a total DEARTH of logic."
Duh.... big red grammar truck!? owned.
 
easy answer, when he got his game legs back did you see him run the ball? if it wasn't for the fact that he is kind of messed up in the head he would be pushing for one of the best
 
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