Miami Dolphins: Why the hate for Brian Hartline? | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Miami Dolphins: Why the hate for Brian Hartline?

insomnia411 said:
My point is that everybody looks like a beast in highlight tapes. It's not a fair way to evaluate somebody, obviously.

I don't know what your definition of "success" is either, but you must have pretty low standards. I don't really consider 500 yards and 1 TD to be successful.
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Your comment implies you are a stats only guy. I have more than one criteria for success:

1. When given an opportunity, a receiver catches the ball and makes the play.
2. The receiver consistently runs a good route and gets enough separation to be available to make the play.
3. The receiver maximizes them total yards per play available. The route, ball location, and situation do matter!!

You will notice that I did not mention stats once.
 
Omar starting some **** :lol:

Racial profiling, what a clown!

It would help if Omar got some of his facts right to begin with. He claims Hartline's numbers are "superior" to Nelson...here are the numbers:

Hartline...109 catches, 195 targeted, 55.89% comp, 1670 yards, 499 RAC, 15.32 ypc, 8.56 ypa, 5 TD catches...equates to a 92.9 QB rating (assuming 0 interceptions)

Nelson...100 catches, 149 targeted, 67.11% comp, 1268 yards, 453 RAC, 12.68 ypc, 8.51 ypa, 6 TD catches...equates to a 106.9 QB rating (assuming 0 interceptions)

The only superior number Hartline put up was YPC, but that gets negated by only catching 55.89% of throws to him...YPA is nearly identical. Omar has clearly confused Hartline being targeted 31% more times than Nelson was his first 3 years as being superior.

If Nelson was targeted 195 times his first 3 seasons based on his averages his numbers would have been...

131 catches, 1659 yards, 8 TD

I am not saying Hartline isn't decent and won't develop to be a legit WR for Miami or that Nelson is superior to Hartline, just saying Omar should at least do his homework when making such claims.
 
I think that Hartline led all Dolphin WRs in all three seasons. That includes a almost 4 yard YPR then Teddy Ginn. (the stats at NFL.com say that Hartline has lead all Dolphin WRs in YPR in all three seasons that he has played)

Hartline is being throw less then half the passes that Marshall was and less then 10% of the passes that Marshall got in the redzone. So how many TDs did you expect him to have?

Plus our QBs only threw for 14 TDs in 2009, 17 in 2010 and 20 in 2011. It seems to me that it is the play calling and QB play rather then Hartline simply not being any good.

And all of our WRs and Matt Moore have now admitted that in the last two seasons, the number one target was always B Marshall no matter if he was open or not.

Getting rid of that human bobble head is going to make everyone's life better.
 
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our coaching staff is (was) not dumb enough to say throw it to brandon marshall EVEN if he's not open...


can you provide me with a link so I can read where the current players said brandon marshall was the #1 target whether he was open or not? I'd be interested in reading up on that...
 
I don't think anyone hates Hartline, but that doesn't mean we're all content with having him be Ryan Tannehill's #1 target for the next decade. It doesn't have to be a first round pick, or a 50 million dollar free-agent, but as it stands now, we need more talent at the position. I think Hartline is a very admirable 2nd option. If we have to go into this season with him as our number 1, I pray it's the last season that happens.
 
AdamC13 said:
Omar starting some **** :lol:

Racial profiling, what a clown!

It would help if Omar got some of his facts right to begin with. He claims Hartline's numbers are "superior" to Nelson...here are the numbers:

Hartline...109 catches, 195 targeted, 55.89% comp, 1670 yards, 499 RAC, 15.32 ypc, 8.56 ypa, 5 TD catches...equates to a 92.9 QB rating (assuming 0 interceptions)

Nelson...100 catches, 149 targeted, 67.11% comp, 1268 yards, 453 RAC, 12.68 ypc, 8.51 ypa, 6 TD catches...equates to a 106.9 QB rating (assuming 0 interceptions)

The only superior number Hartline put up was YPC, but that gets negated by only catching 55.89% of throws to him...YPA is nearly identical. Omar has clearly confused Hartline being targeted 31% more times than Nelson was his first 3 years as being superior.

If Nelson was targeted 195 times his first 3 seasons based on his averages his numbers would have been...

131 catches, 1659 yards, 8 TD

I am not saying Hartline isn't decent and won't develop to be a legit WR for Miami or that Nelson is superior to Hartline, just saying Omar should at least do his homework when making such claims.
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I think a argument can be made that while J Nelson has had a All Pro, MVP QB in Aaron Rogers, B Hartline has had to play with Chad Henne and Matt Moore. In fact, if you just look at Aaron Roger's QB rating over the last 3 seasons compared to the Dolphin's QBs, it really all makes sense. I think the overwhelming reason that J Nelson gives "his" QB a higher rating is that his QB DOES have a much better rating. In fact, one thing that stood out in the stats you posted was that throwing to Hartline made his QBs look better.

Looking at completion stats, A Rogers was about 5-8 points better then the Dolphin QB during the same time. Since more of his passes where on target, it does make sense that his WRs caught a larger percent of them.

in 2011, A Rogers had a QB rating of 122.5 while Matt Moore had a QB rating of 87.1
In 2010, A Rogers had a QB rating of 101.2 while Chad Nee had a QB rating of 75.4
In 2009, A Rogers had a QB rating of 103.5 while Chad Henne had a QB rating of 75.2

I'd say you made a good case for B Hartline being a good WR.

Considering that J Nelson was a 2nd round pick and B Hartline was taken in the 4th round, Hartline seems like a good deal for us.
 
2413fanphins said:
our coaching staff is (was) not dumb enough to say throw it to brandon marshall EVEN if he's not open...


can you provide me with a link so I can read where the current players said brandon marshall was the #1 target whether he was open or not? I'd be interested in reading up on that...
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I can even show you the video of where D Revis took back a pass thrown to B Marshall when he was not open for 101 yards and a TD.

And over the last couple of days in the Miami newspapers Moore, Hartline and Bess all said that this season "one" WR will not always be the first choice. I'm going out on a ledge and saying that the "one" WR was BM.

---------- Post added at 05:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------
rob19 said:
I don't think anyone hates Hartline, but that doesn't mean we're all content with having him be Ryan Tannehill's #1 target for the next decade. It doesn't have to be a first round pick, or a 50 million dollar free-agent, but as it stands now, we need more talent at the position. I think Hartline is a very admirable 2nd option. If we have to go into this season with him as our number 1, I pray it's the last season that happens.
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I'm down with drafting one early but no $50 million/4 years free agents please.
 
LikeUntoGod said:
I think a argument can be made that while J Nelson has had a All Pro, MVP QB in Aaron Rogers, B Hartline has had to play with Chad Henne and Matt Moore. In fact, if you just look at Aaron Roger's QB rating over the last 3 seasons compared to the Dolphin's QBs, it really all makes sense. I think the overwhelming reason that J Nelson gives "his" QB a higher rating is that his QB DOES have a much better rating. In fact, one thing that stood out in the stats you posted was that throwing to Hartline made his QBs look better.

Looking at completion stats, A Rogers was about 5-8 points better then the Dolphin QB during the same time. Since more of his passes where on target, it does make sense that his WRs caught a larger percent of them.

in 2011, A Rogers had a QB rating of 122.5 while Matt Moore had a QB rating of 87.1
In 2010, A Rogers had a QB rating of 101.2 while Chad Nee had a QB rating of 75.4
In 2009, A Rogers had a QB rating of 103.5 while Chad Henne had a QB rating of 75.2

I'd say you made a good case for B Hartline being a good WR.

Considering that J Nelson was a 2nd round pick and B Hartline was taken in the 4th round, Hartline seems like a good deal for us.
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It is a legitimate argument/factor...of course, A Rodgers 2011 season with a QB rating of 122.5 was Nelson's 4th year and would need to be replaced with A Rodgers 2008 season (his 1st year as a starter) with a 93.8 QB rating.

We can also see that Rodgers completed 64.6% of his passes overall during Nelson's first 3 years, but completed 67.1% of his passes when throwning to Nelson. So Rodgers raised his completion percentage when throwing to Nelson.

Whereas Miami QBs completed 60.2% of passes during Hartline's first 3 years, but only competed 55.9% of passes thrown to Hartline. So QBs lowered their completion percentage when throwing to Hartline.

The trade-off is Hartline had more YPC...I am not saying Nelson was superior to Hartline his first 3 seasons...I was just pointing out that Omar was just plain wrong to say Hartline's numbers were "superior" (he did use that word) to Nelson's their first 3 seasons.

I see them as having pretty similar careers 3 years in. Hopefully, Hartline will make as big an improvement this year as Nelson did last year.
 
AdamC13 said:
I see them as having pretty similar careers 3 years in. Hopefully, Hartline will make as big an improvement this year as Nelson did last year.
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Yes, same here.

I think the best example for us Dolphin fans of a QB making a WR better is T Brady and W Welker. If you put Welker on a team with a lesser QB, he becomes a lesser WR. On the other hand I bet D Bess would look like a better WR if Brady was throwing to him.

This is what hopefully Rayn Tannehill can do for us. A rising sea lifts all boats sort of thing.
 
ckparrothead said:
Well...not quite. He asked me if I could come up with a Hartline video yesterday and it's something I'd already been meaning to do so I went ahead and did it, posted it on Twitter, and he wrote his blog piece about it.
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Ahh, I understand.
 
Brian Hartline only problem is playing opposite the uber athletic gifted and uber mentally troubling B. Marshall.
 
It's because he scares no one offensively and he falls over a lot. Nobody anywhere near him, he just falls over.
 
2413fanphins said:
our coaching staff is (was) not dumb enough to say throw it to brandon marshall EVEN if he's not open...


can you provide me with a link so I can read where the current players said brandon marshall was the #1 target whether he was open or not? I'd be interested in reading up on that...
Click to expand...

Really?!?


... Might I offer up Exhibit A:

134058846jpguuidAMzgjiUHEeGpXJxZ5oNiA-1.jpg


Nuff said.
 
im sure if we had jordy nelson on our roster, no one would be complaining about his talent level, omar is just reaching way too hard with this one.
 
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