Miami Dolphins: Why the hate for Brian Hartline? | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Miami Dolphins: Why the hate for Brian Hartline?

LikeUntoGod said:
As I've daid before, I consider YAC to be a vastly overrated

Since Hartline's YAC is "only" 2.9, that got me wondering what was Brandon Marshall's YAC with the Dolphins? With the Broncos it was 4.64 which is a yard and a half more then Hartline's for a player considered the "BEAST".

So far I've found that in his first two seasons here his YAC was.......wait for it........

2.98

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...tra-work-new-technique-will-cure-drop-issues/


So as I said in a previous post. YAC is VASTLY overrated. IMO, 90% of a wide receiver's job is to run good routes, get open and catch the ball.

If you are counting on your WR (or TE or RB) to break lose for a extra two yards to get the first down then you called the wrong pass route. Unless it is a fly, go or post route, the vast amount of WRs are tackled as they catch the ball.

If a WR run good routes, gets open and catches the ball when it comes close to him, I do not care what his YAC is.

If we are grading how good a WR is on his YAC then it is a big mistake.

LUG HAS SPOKEN!
Click to expand...
So now Brandon Marshall is the benchmark? I thought he sucked now that he was no longer on the team? This board is all over the place.

Not sure where you're getting your info, but his YAC was 4.2 last year vs 2.8 in 2010. I'm not a math genius, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't average out to 2.98. 2010 was the only year he ever averaged below 4.0 YPC. In fact, 3 out of his 6 years he averaged above 5.0. But I'm not even talking about the stats. WATCH him play. Hell, watch CK's video. Dude goes down almost immediately every.single.time. As CK pointed out, some of it is ball placement, but some of it is also on him.

We can compare stats all day and make them fit our viewpoint with no problem. How about not talking fantasy football. You can honestly look at Hartline and think he's a top WR? He's good, and will be a solid contributor, but he's hardly somebody you build a WR corps around. If you saw him on any other team, would you feel the same way? Would we be having threads saying "what will it take to trade for Hartline?" Not a chance.
 
LikeUntoGod said:
As I've daid before, I consider YAC to be a vastly overrated

Since Hartline's YAC is "only" 2.9, that got me wondering what was Brandon Marshall's YAC with the Dolphins? With the Broncos it was 4.64 which is a yard and a half more then Hartline's for a player considered the "BEAST".

So far I've found that in his first two seasons here his YAC was.......wait for it........

2.98

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...tra-work-new-technique-will-cure-drop-issues/


So as I said in a previous post. YAC is VASTLY overrated. IMO, 90% of a wide receiver's job is to run good routes, get open and catch the ball.

If you are counting on your WR (or TE or RB) to break lose for a extra two yards to get the first down then you called the wrong pass route. Unless it is a fly, go or post route, the vast amount of WRs are tackled as they catch the ball.

If a WR run good routes, gets open and catches the ball when it comes close to him, I do not care what his YAC is.

If we are grading how good a WR is on his YAC then it is a big mistake.

LUG HAS SPOKEN!
Click to expand...

It seems like Brian Hartline has not only been had the best YPR of any Dolphin WR in the last 3 seasons, he also had the biggest YAC.
 
Gonzo said:
So now Brandon Marshall is the benchmark? I thought he sucked now that he was no longer on the team? This board is all over the place.

Not sure where you're getting your info, but his YAC was 4.2 last year vs 2.8 in 2010. I'm not a math genius, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't average out to 2.98. 2010 was the only year he ever averaged below 4.0 YPC. In fact, 3 out of his 6 years he averaged above 5.0. But I'm not even talking about the stats. WATCH him play. Hell, watch CK's video. Dude goes down almost immediately every.single.time. As CK pointed out, some of it is ball placement, but some of it is also on him.

We can compare stats all day and make them fit our viewpoint with no problem. How about not talking fantasy football. You can honestly look at Hartline and think he's a top WR? He's good, and will be a solid contributor, but he's hardly somebody you build a WR corps around. If you saw him on any other team, would you feel the same way? Would we be having threads saying "what will it take to trade for Hartline?" Not a chance.
Click to expand...


From what a number of people here think, B Marshall was AWESOME. I can't find his 2011 YAC numbers, I simply found the stats given in that newspaper story.

But if your numbers are correct, that gives B Marshall a YAC of 3.32 while he was a Dolphin. Once again, YAC is a vastly over rated stat. (can you link your place for his stats please?)
 
LikeUntoGod said:
It seems like Brian Hartline has not only been had the best YPR of any Dolphin WR in the last 3 seasons, he also had the biggest YAC.
Click to expand...

I feel like I've said this 100 times. Its not a coincidence that Brandon Marshall was a borderline top 5 WR in the game when he got here, and he leaves with two 3rd round pick value... Brandon Marshall was not the problem in Miami. Miami was the problem in Brandon Marshall. Well, the offensive minds, quarterbacks and overall supporting cast were anyway. The guy is awesome and we are not a better team without him, to me that's a ridiculous notion.
Ugh, I can't wait for the regular season.
 
LikeUntoGod said:
From what a number of people here think, B Marshall was AWESOME. I can't find his 2011 YAC numbers, I simply found the stats given in that newspaper story.

But if your numbers are correct, that gives B Marshall a YAC of 3.32 while he was a Dolphin. Once again, YAC is a vastly over rated stat. (can you link your place for his stats please?)
Click to expand...
Used Yahoo's stats, but I believe ESPN provided YAC stats as well. Still haven't answered the other questions in my post.
 
Gonzo said:
Used Yahoo's stats, but I believe ESPN provided YAC stats as well. Still haven't answered the other questions in my post.
Click to expand...

Opps, 3.25 not 3.32 for Marshall.

Let's see under "the rest of your questions".

You asked :

1) You can honestly look at Hartline and think he's a top WR?
2) If you saw him on any other team, would you feel the same way?
3) Would we be having threads saying "what will it take to trade for Hartline?".

1) Hmm, I never said he was a "top WR" (I'm not sure what you mean by top) but I do think he is pretty good considering the poor QBs he has played with.
2) If I saw him on another team, after looking at their QB, I would feel the same way.
3) I'm really not sure, have we had any threads at all ever asking what it would take to trade for anyone's else's WR? None that I can remember. I have to do some tilling, if you have any more questions I'll try to get to them soon.
 
Let us add B Marshall numbers while he was a Dolphin into this mix.


Hartline...109 catches, 195 targeted, 55.89% comp, 1670 yards, 499 RAC, 15.32 ypc, 8.56 ypa, 5 TD catches...equates to a 92.9 QB rating (assuming 0 interceptions)

Nelson...100 catches, 149 targeted, 67.11% comp, 1268 yards, 453 RAC, 12.68 ypc, 8.51 ypa, 6 TD catches...equates to a 106.9 QB rating (assuming 0 interceptions)

Marshall...167 catches, 315 targeted, 52.6& comp, 2228 yards, 544 RAC , 13.34 YPC, 7.07 YPA, 9 TD catches...equates to a 83.8 QB rating (counting the one interception I'm sure about)

Wow, Hartline is looking better and better!
 
LikeUntoGod said:
Let us add B Marshall numbers while he was a Dolphin into this mix.


Hartline...109 catches, 195 targeted, 55.89% comp, 1670 yards, 499 RAC, 15.32 ypc, 8.56 ypa, 5 TD catches...equates to a 92.9 QB rating (assuming 0 interceptions)

Nelson...100 catches, 149 targeted, 67.11% comp, 1268 yards, 453 RAC, 12.68 ypc, 8.51 ypa, 6 TD catches...equates to a 106.9 QB rating (assuming 0 interceptions)

Marshall...167 catches, 315 targeted, 52.6& comp, 2228 yards, 544 RAC , 13.34 YPC, 7.07 YPA, 9 TD catches...equates to a 83.8 QB rating (counting the one interception I'm sure about)

Wow, Hartline is looking better and better!
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting Brian Hartline is better than Brandon Marshall?
 
LikeUntoGod said:
Opps, 3.25 not 3.32 for Marshall.

Let's see under "the rest of your questions".

You asked :

1) You can honestly look at Hartline and think he's a top WR?
2) If you saw him on any other team, would you feel the same way?
3) Would we be having threads saying "what will it take to trade for Hartline?".

1) Hmm, I never said he was a "top WR" (I'm not sure what you mean by top) but I do think he is pretty good considering the poor QBs he has played with.
2) If I saw him on another team, after looking at their QB, I would feel the same way.
3) I'm really not sure, have we had any threads at all ever asking what it would take to trade for anyone's else's WR? None that I can remember. I have to do some tilling, if you have any more questions I'll try to get to them soon.
Click to expand...
Dear god man, what are you talking about? Here, let me google it for you:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7868/career;_ylt=Aqq4VoLq1UEDkzrdhIGjIYr.uLYF

Again, only one year under 4.0. Several over 5.0. Pretty simple. Stop trying to over-complicate it to fit your agenda.

1) So you agree that he's a good WR, but not great. Do you agree he's not the type of WR you build your team around or rely on as your best option?
2) Bull****. You wouldn't know who he was outside of a late round fantasy football flyer.
3) It's a pretty simple hypothetical scenario that you see every single time a player is even rumored as being on the trade block. If he was on another team and was placed on the trading block, would you be clamoring for him? What would you be willing to give up for him in trade? Don't worry, I don't expect an honest answer to that.

He's a good WR for his role. He'll never be a great WR. He's not somebody you build the team around. He's a great compliment to a #1 WR (yes, I know, WCO doesn't require any #1 WRs, or even good ones for that matter, because it's magical). The fact that he is currently our best option only shows that WR is a need that will need to be addressed next year. That doesn't bother me. We addressed the most important position in football (FINALLY). Now we can go out and get him some more weapons.
 
LikeUntoGod said:
Let us add B Marshall numbers while he was a Dolphin into this mix.


Hartline...109 catches, 195 targeted, 55.89% comp, 1670 yards, 499 RAC, 15.32 ypc, 8.56 ypa, 5 TD catches...equates to a 92.9 QB rating (assuming 0 interceptions)

Nelson...100 catches, 149 targeted, 67.11% comp, 1268 yards, 453 RAC, 12.68 ypc, 8.51 ypa, 6 TD catches...equates to a 106.9 QB rating (assuming 0 interceptions)

Marshall...167 catches, 315 targeted, 52.6& comp, 2228 yards, 544 RAC , 13.34 YPC, 7.07 YPA, 9 TD catches...equates to a 83.8 QB rating (counting the one interception I'm sure about)

Wow, Hartline is looking better and better!
Click to expand...

:lol: Jeebus, I hate fantasy football.

You're leaving out a key points here. Hartline's stats are OVER 3 YEARS. Nelson's was in ONE year. Here's a stat: 3 years is more than 1 year. Why not throw Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald in there too, that way you can showcase how little your stat comparisons matter?

Since your so stuck on stats, how about gains over 20 yards? Hartline is tied with Bess for 78th at 8 last season. Fasano had more.

Of course, none of that matters. Anybody that actually watches him play knows exactly what type of WR you're getting. Are you telling me he doesn't collapse immediately, or at best stretch out for an extra 2 or 3 yards? His role is to run good routes and get that quick ten yards for a 1st down. That's it. That's a good role to have, but it's certainly not what you build your WR corps around.
 
miamiron said:
Zero TDS IN THE PAST 15 GAMES AND ONE IN THE PAST 26 GAMES SAYS OTHERWISE
Click to expand...

Nooooo, that's an unfair stat, he just didn't get that many touchdowns because nobody threw him the ball in the red zone. He just needs more opportunities!... Bull ****.

Maybe he didn't get very many red zone opportunities, or that many passes thrown his way in general because he clearly isn't a red zone threat, and just doesn't get open as often as he should. So sick of excuses for unprodictivity and losing football!
 
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