Miami should forget DT Manuel Wright, and go for WR Roscoe Crosby | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Miami should forget DT Manuel Wright, and go for WR Roscoe Crosby

ckparrothead

ckparrothead

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I know that Miami has shown public interest in DT Manuel Wright out of USC, who is entering the supplemental draft.

However, I have been thinking about this for a while, and I do not think Wright is a good fit in Miami. I view Wright as more of a Daryl Gardener than a Tim Bowens, and we have a bunch of our DT/DE tweeners on the team already. We have Carter in that role, we have Holliday, we have Zgonina, we drafted Vickerson. I personally don't know that 6'5" or 6'6" guys can even play nose tackle very well, being too tall can kill your back in that kind of role.

And, I know I've also said that Miami should generally shy away from things like the supplemental draft where you give up a future draft pick, whose true value is really unknown, for a guy that you are attempting to evaluate on his own without the benefit of dozens of peers next to him. It is hard to gauge the value of the guy you're evaluating without all his peers next to him, and it is impossible to gauge the value of your future draft pick.

But if Miami WERE to look at a guy, I think they should look at Roscoe Crosby because of his sheer athletic prowess and ability.

http://www.gbnreport.com/nextlevelreports.html

Former CLEMSON wide receiver ROSCOE CROSBY (#25), who was named to the Freshman All-American team after the 2001 season, has decided to petition the NFL for entry in the upcoming (July) Supplemental Draft... while his paperwork has been submitted it will still have to be reviewed by the advisory committee before he formally becomes eligible for the draft... has spent the past 4-5 months investigating what would give him the best chance to continue his football career, as he had looked into several possible transfer points, but would not have had the time to complete the necessary course hours to become eligible by the fall... started working out with an eye towards the Supplemental earlier this year, as he was able to perform at Clemson's Pro Day on March 17th... ran between 4.48 and 4.52 in the 40... 36-38" vertical... has been timed in the 4.45 range in recent weeks... while also doing 20-22 reps of 225 pounds... currently weighs 6017, 214 pounds... top games of his freshman year (2001) came against Florida State, Louisiana Tech, Duke and Maryland... #25 on those game tapes... he was also a very sound blocker on those tapes... plays with good aggressiveness, both with and without the ball... "He's (Crosby) the best I've ever seen as a freshman... he does things out there that are just God-given abilities", said current South Carolina and former Clemson receivers coach Rick Stockstill after just four practices in the spring of 2001... had also been drafted in the second round of the MLB draft by the Kansas City Royals... lost three friends who died in a tragic car accident on their way to see him playing summer league baseball... to this day they are still identified as his "Brothers" by family and friends alike as all four had grown up knowing each other their whole lives to that point... had also suffered a right elbow injury, which led to a red-shirt season in 2002... split time between Royals' spring training and school early on, but was mislead by the contract he had agreed to, as the Royals decided not to pay for his tuition at Clemson in the spring of 2003, which led to a future arbitration case... throughout the entire period of time (8-10 months) between the summer of 2002 and the following spring of 2003 there were no outside attempts to help him deal with the loss of his friends until a private counselor worked with him through his families intervention... with a much clearer head he attempted to re-gain his eligibility at Clemson in the spring/summer of 2003, which is when the funding issue arose, stemming from the withheld payments from his contract... most insiders believe the Royals hoped he would give up on football and sign a new baseball contract... the arbitration case was finally completed in February 2005, which is the timeline of when he started working out full-time with an eye towards football... amazingly, his entire three-year ordeal, which includes having not played football in that period of time still leaves him at the tender age of just 22-years old... as his date of birth is 2/6/83... he was the Player of the Year in the state of South Carolina, according to USA Today, coming out of high school... scored an amazing 40 touchdowns in his final two years at Union High, while averageing over 20 yards per catch on 159 receptions... a quick look back at that year's Top-25 recruits shows that a total of 10 of those 25 players have been drafted in the first or second round of the past two NFL Drafts; Crosby was rated above all but one of those players (RB Kevin Jones, Detroit)... he is a quiet kid away from the field... does not speak much of the past or his situation other than to say he hopes to make the best of his new beginning... anyone who has read these reports for the past four years knows how much time and research goes into them before they are released... our staff has been aware of all of the decisions/moves made by Crosby and his family for nearly six months, but were not willing to make critical or passing remarks about his situation or upside potential until each item was carefully reviewed... this is the type of kid that could make-or-break a decision makers future, as he has shown first round ability, but it takes a close eye to reveal the talent that is still very much still present... once he is fully eligible for the Supplemental Draft, he intends to hold two "Pro Day" workouts in the Columbia, SC area with one coming in early June and the other towards the middle of the month... he has a highlight and workout tape/DVD available... please contact his advisors for more information, and to receive time/directions to his workouts.
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That is a heck of a story, and some very good praise from his former WRs coach. So, I know you are thinking, how did he do at his pro day on June 10th? The answer, is I don't know for sure. But Great Blue North furnished this nugget recently...

http://www.gbnreport.com/

June 13
(12:01 AM): Former Clemson WR works for scouts... Former Clemson WR Roscoe Crosby, who has entered next month's supplemental draft, worked out for pro scouts late last week. Crosby who hasn't played footbll since 2001, reportedly blitzed a 4.37 40 clocking; he also reportedly caught the ball from former Cardinal and Buccaneers' QB - and now free-agent - Shaun King. The supplemental draft is scheduled for July 14.
Click to expand...


Here is my take:

You should always enter into giving up a future draft pick VERY cautiously, because you do NOT know the value of that future pick. You also are guaranteed to have a tough time evaluating the value of the guy you are giving up the pick for, in something like the supplemental draft, where you evaluate the guy in sort of a vaccuum.

Having said that, Miami has (and I figured this out back when Leinart was rumored to be entering the Supp. Draft) about a 15-20% chance in any given round of the supplemental draft, that they draw the #1 pick in that round. That means we could get away with offering par value for Crosby, where other teams probably have to offer par + 1, to get him. If Crosby gets overlooked, and nobody offers par + 1 to get him, then it is possible Miami may get him for as little as a future 4th or 5th round pick, if not 6th or 7th because teams shy away from him because he hasn't played since 2001.

Here is a 6'1" guy, athletically gifted with sub-4.4 speed, capable of making hugely athletic plays, who you can roster and develop as a 5th WR for a few years. This is a guy with the tools to teach. He's also got the jets to be a deep threat in this offense.

Personally, I see Chambers, Booker, and Boston definitely making the team, Derrius fighting for the #4 spot, but I believe adding Crosby to the fight for a #5 WR (provided that Welker makes the team as a KR/PR specialist) would be beneficial. I would evaluate Crosby above the likes of Newson, Bellamy, Gilmore, and Mann.

I know Josh Davis has become popular recently, but he can be cut and placed on the practice squad, likely without a whole lot of attention from other teams on the waiver wire.


I'm not saying Miami WILL get Crosby, or that they should definitley offer a 4th for him in the supp. draft, all I'm saying, is wouldn't it be nice. IMO, he would fit perfectly as a developmental guy.
 
man, that is some good stuff. very, very thorough. Clemson fan, Crosby fan/agent? Or did you just see a highlight or game????
 
If Wright is more of a Darryl Gardener than a Tim Bowens, that is a very good thing.

Gardener was a top 5 DT when healthy and in his prime.

We don't need a WR.
 
ckparrothead said:
I know that Miami has shown public interest in DT Manuel Wright out of USC, who is entering the supplemental draft.

However, I have been thinking about this for a while, and I do not think Wright is a good fit in Miami. I view Wright as more of a Daryl Gardener than a Tim Bowens, and we have a bunch of our DT/DE tweeners on the team already. We have Carter in that role, we have Holliday, we have Zgonina, we drafted Vickerson. I personally don't know that 6'5" or 6'6" guys can even play nose tackle very well, being too tall can kill your back in that kind of role.

And, I know I've also said that Miami should generally shy away from things like the supplemental draft where you give up a future draft pick, whose true value is really unknown, for a guy that you are attempting to evaluate on his own without the benefit of dozens of peers next to him. It is hard to gauge the value of the guy you're evaluating without all his peers next to him, and it is impossible to gauge the value of your future draft pick.

But if Miami WERE to look at a guy, I think they should look at Roscoe Crosby because of his sheer athletic prowess and ability.

http://www.gbnreport.com/nextlevelreports.html



That is a heck of a story, and some very good praise from his former WRs coach. So, I know you are thinking, how did he do at his pro day on June 10th? The answer, is I don't know for sure. But Great Blue North furnished this nugget recently...

http://www.gbnreport.com/




Here is my take:

You should always enter into giving up a future draft pick VERY cautiously, because you do NOT know the value of that future pick. You also are guaranteed to have a tough time evaluating the value of the guy you are giving up the pick for, in something like the supplemental draft, where you evaluate the guy in sort of a vaccuum.

Having said that, Miami has (and I figured this out back when Leinart was rumored to be entering the Supp. Draft) about a 15-20% chance in any given round of the supplemental draft, that they draw the #1 pick in that round. That means we could get away with offering par value for Crosby, where other teams probably have to offer par + 1, to get him. If Crosby gets overlooked, and nobody offers par + 1 to get him, then it is possible Miami may get him for as little as a future 4th or 5th round pick, if not 6th or 7th because teams shy away from him because he hasn't played since 2001.

Here is a 6'1" guy, athletically gifted with sub-4.4 speed, capable of making hugely athletic plays, who you can roster and develop as a 5th WR for a few years. This is a guy with the tools to teach. He's also got the jets to be a deep threat in this offense.

Personally, I see Chambers, Booker, and Boston definitely making the team, Derrius fighting for the #4 spot, but I believe adding Crosby to the fight for a #5 WR (provided that Welker makes the team as a KR/PR specialist) would be beneficial. I would evaluate Crosby above the likes of Newson, Bellamy, Gilmore, and Mann.

I know Josh Davis has become popular recently, but he can be cut and placed on the practice squad, likely without a whole lot of attention from other teams on the waiver wire.


I'm not saying Miami WILL get Crosby, or that they should definitley offer a 4th for him in the supp. draft, all I'm saying, is wouldn't it be nice. IMO, he would fit perfectly as a developmental guy.
Click to expand...

Great Post! Very comprehensive...
 
ckparrothead said:
... I view Wright as more of a Daryl Gardener than a Tim Bowens, and we have a bunch of our DT/DE tweeners on the team already. We have Carter in that role, we have Holliday, we have Zgonina, we drafted Vickerson. I personally don't know that 6'5" or 6'6" guys can even play nose tackle very well, being too tall can kill your back in that kind of role....
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Nose Tackle? I guess the Patsies Richard Seymour has play nose once in a while and he is at 6'6". It's likely that we only need one fat DT on the field at a time. Wright may be worth a 5th rounder. The nice thing about having that tall player in the middle with the extended wingspan is to knock down a few passes. And if Wright has the frame to add some more poundage (like Traylor) all the better.
 
Understanding that Nick loves to save up draft picks, I believe that he will forego the supplemental for next year's general draft.
 
The Supplemental Draft is still the draft

phinphan11 said:
Understanding that Nick loves to save up draft picks, I believe that he will forego the supplemental for next year's general draft.
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The real issue is whether you consider this borrowing from next year's draft, or getting a jump start on next years draft and drafting players lower than you would a year from now. However, picking guys in the supplemental draft does have risks. They are in the draft for a reason (normally academic related).


Lee2000
 
I still consider DT a far greater need on this team than WR also i'm not sure Saban would balk at giving a pick in the sup draft depending on how much he feels we can improve next season
 
If you can get a guy below market value and he fits what you've set as a criteria in evaluating a player than why not take him? Both players are intriguing because their talent is probably 1st round caliber, but their experience is lacking. So the risk factor is obviously higher. That's where you have to be careful to find out how much the player wants it, how hard he will work etc.

The team definitely needs quality depth at wr and Crosby could be an eventual starter. At DT, the Dolphins have a lot of age so there's no question they could use a young, potentially dominant player. I would go with Wright over Crosby because I think it's harder to find quality DT's.
 
Figuring that Saban would like to stash his future picks, I doubt he would give up anything higher than a 5th, regardless of what he thinks of these 2 kids. And as a fan, I would be ecstatic to see us get either one of them for a 5th. I'll leave it up to the guys that watch the tapes & pro days to figure out which one has a higher upside, regardless of which position needs more depth. Personally, I think we could use a young stud at either position (WR or DT).
 
phinphan11 said:
Understanding that Nick loves to save up draft picks, I believe that he will forego the supplemental for next year's general draft.
Click to expand...

Why? A draft is a draft. If we can get someone in the 4th or 5th round this season that would usually be a 2nd or 3rd then why not? This isn't throwing away picks for some wasted veteran like we've been doing. It would be a draft pick for a rookie.
 
All this is interesting, and you make a great argument for Crosby CK, but we have a burner in Newson, Gilmore, and Josh D. In other words, these guys are all young. Not to mention Chambers and Boston, with DT and Booker being the slower WR's. Crosby hasn't played since 2001, unfortunate situation. If we spend higher than a 6th, that's crazy. Even if he makes the team, we loose experience with our other young WR's who atleast have a year under their belts. I'm not sold, even though he will probably be a good player in reading your account of him.

At the DT spot, Traylor 35, Zgonia, 34, Chester 29, Romero 25. BU's to them Carter 33, Holiday 31. Gardner was a great run stuffer as well as pass rusher, that's not bad at NT, Gardner role was to take on double teams and still make a impact, which he did. If Wright can play that kind of football, which do you think will make the greatest impact over the next couple of years. A receiver that has to be developed or DT who can probably play year 1.

Finally, we lose a draft pick next year on a maybe..
 
byroan said:
Why? A draft is a draft. If we can get someone in the 4th or 5th round this season that would usually be a 2nd or 3rd then why not? This isn't throwing away picks for some wasted veteran like we've been doing. It would be a draft pick for a rookie.
Click to expand...

Because the supplemental draft appears to present a player in a better light because of the lesser numbers of players being drafted, IMHO
 
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