Miami’s Offensive Line

[Virginia99]

With all the talk of needing help along the offensive line. Sure looks like help is needed, especially with the hurries and pressure rates falling in the top of the category. Averages out to more than 10 per game, combined, with 10 games played so far.

Health is the main problem with the line. They are good when all five starters are available. Throw Ingold in there too. When they lose one, there's a sizable drop off. Again, this is a Grier problem. How many games have any of the OL starters missed for the Bills in the last two years?

 

[EPBro]

Wynn will help. Need better guard play.

Specifically LG play. Plus he gives us position flexibility at OT.

 

[lurking]

Umm. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure you’re reading that wrong. Those hurries and pressures allowed are second-least in the league, not second most. In other words, 30 other teams have allowed more hurries and pressures than Miami..

I read it a positive as well.

 

[Avigatorx]

A lot of the brothers just fundamentally do not want Miami to run a zone-blocking scheme.

They'll NEVER accept the value of speed linemen vs. power/gap guys. Instead, they focus on our difficulties with short yardage while blithely ignoring how much our offense depends of successfully executed 2nd level blocks.

Teams like ours will spring our backs more often AND see them stuffed more often. It goes with the scheme... so, if you don't like it, fire the Coach, because he is going to live or die with this scheme...

And then... you'll need 5 new linemen, a new offense, a new offensive coordinator, as well as bigger WRs and RBs.

Good luck with that...

You and I have discussed this before, and it's no secret I'm not a fan.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but if we are sticking with the ZBS we need better talent and better depth on the line.

I believe that what we ask of these guys increases their risk of injury due to all the movement involved.

I 100 percent would prefer a smashmouth, beat the man in front of you, power run scheme, but I can live with the ZBS IF we properly invest in the talent to make it work.

If Grier and McD want to continue doing it on the cheap, I'm out.

 

[marino13zach54]

As always...

If we replaced our quick footed offensive linemen with slower footed 'road-grader' type linemen, then our zone-blocking scheme would no longer work. Achane would no longer be the right RB. Road-grader linemen mean 220# power backs.

You can have one... or the other.

Oh, dude, that’s a very interesting point but I believe Achane could get it done behind five nuns merely praying for the heavenly spirit to block the man in front of them.

There was a run on Sunday were he double side-stepped into two spaces THAT WERENT THERE. The spaces only become available if he maneuvers the way he did (I wish my acumen was enough to detail that better).

I don’t know if Jaylen Wright is the beast I think he is. I haven’t seen enough of him to proclaim that with conviction. But the times I have seen Jaylen Wright, I say to myself, “Good lord, that motherfocker runs hard.” & Wright can’t get his touches. Why? Achane.

I don’t believe Achane is the product of a system but as long as I have been involved with this game, Xs & Os continue to baffle me so I could not aptly debunk such an interesting point that makes a lot of sense.

 

[VAFinsfan72]

We are going to have to make a decision about Armstead in the offseason.

I think we are going to have to part with either Armstead or Chubb.

Whoever we release we will probably have to address that position with our first round pick, LT or DE.

I would rather keep Armstead for another year. He is playing at a high level and we have Paul his backup in place.

Its a good draft class for DE so we should be able to find a good one in the first round.

Brewer is our C and Jackson is our RT.

Lamm is supposedly retiring after this season.

Liam is a FA.

We need to draft some interior O-linemen. Maybe we can sign a reasonably priced FA if they are an upgrade over Liam and Jones.

 

[Marino2.0]

A lot of the brothers just fundamentally do not want Miami to run a zone-blocking scheme.

They'll NEVER accept the value of speed linemen vs. power/gap guys. Instead, they focus on our difficulties with short yardage while blithely ignoring how much our offense depends of successfully executed 2nd level blocks.

Teams like ours will spring our backs more often AND see them stuffed more often. It goes with the scheme... so, if you don't like it, fire the Coach, because he is going to live or die with this scheme...

And then... you'll need 5 new linemen, a new offense, a new offensive coordinator, as well as bigger WRs and RBs.

Good luck with that...

This is fundamentally right. But even though a lot of this forum simply dislikes the zone blocking scheme, it’s not all or nothing.

I like the zone blocking scheme but don’t like Eichenberg and Jones at all. They’re not speed or power—they’re just bad. Both are really right tackles who lack the agility to play tackle in the NFL. We need actual talent at guard.

We also need a short yardage back. I have no problem with speed OL, but in 3rd/4th and short, we can’t be using the same playbook that we use on 2nd and 5. It’s more important to get 2 yards than to have a shot at springing something big. So your RB needs to be able to win a yard if he’s one-on-one with a linebacker in the hole. Achane has no chance at that. If there’s a man in the hole, we don’t get the yard.

 

[marino13zach54]

During the Raiders game, one of the commentators said how Tua is so good when he gets the ball out quickly, but the longer he holds the ball, the worse the play will be. I know Tua is partially to blame for not being an off-script type of QB, but Grier and McDaniel deserve a lot of blame for not doing everything in their power to build a strong o-line. IMO, just because the line looks okay when the ball is out quickly doesn't mean that they're actually competent. If they can't protect the QB for more than 2 seconds, or consistently convert 3rd or 4th and short on the ground, then they're no good.

Bro, this is not rocket science.

I tell people all the time that ONE OF THE BIGGEST SIGNS OF BEING A GREAT QB, believe it or not, is an incomplete pass- THROW IT AWAY!!!

For all the wonderful things that Tua is both as a human being & a talented football player, HE MAY BE THE DUMBEST MOTHERFOCKER IN THE NFL when it comes to “knowing thyself”.

Bro, he MUST know he gets awkward the longer he holds the ball. He MUST know the risk of taking a big hit is not worth ONE AMAZING PLAY. He MUST know (cuz we’re taught since pop warner) DONT TAKE THE NEGATIVE PLAY. And he must KNOW how quickly he can overcome a throw away with Tyreek on the field.

But, at this point I don’t blame Tua anymore because it’s quite obvious that no one has threatened him the way he should be threatened. If I were McDaniel I’d tell him, “If you don’t start throwing the ball away when necessary, I’m going to sit your arse down. What is it about you convulsing into throwing up Latin Kings or TNS or IMP (all Miami gangs back in the day for you non305 pu$$ies [just Joshing]) do you not understand?”

 

[VAFinsfan72]

This is fundamentally right. But even though a lot of this forum simply dislikes the zone blocking scheme, it’s not all or nothing.

I like the zone blocking scheme but don’t like Eichenberg and Jones at all. They’re not speed or power—they’re just bad. Both are really right tackles who lack the agility to play tackle in the NFL. We need actual talent at guard.

We also need a short yardage back. I have no problem with speed OL, but in 3rd/4th and short, we can’t be using the same playbook that we use on 2nd and 5. It’s more important to get 2 yards than to have a shot at springing something big. So your RB needs to be able to win a yard if he’s one-on-one with a linebacker in the hole. Achane has no chance at that. If there’s a man in the hole, we don’t get the yard.

We should be able to find some quality OG's in the middle rounds who are upgrades over Liam and Jones.

We also need a more physical RB. Thats another position we could address in the middle to late rounds. We have 10 draft picks I think.

 

[E30M3]

We should be able to find some quality OG's in the middle rounds who are upgrades over Liam and Jones.

We also need a more physical RB. Thats another position we could address in the middle to late rounds. We have 10 draft picks I think.

Wright. Wright is a physical RB.

 

[67Stang]

This is where stats lie period. These stats are hidden by the fact we have a QB who gets rid of the ball fast, and a RB who is pretty damn good. However, look at his stats behind last years line. When we need a 3rd or 4th and short, this line is dominated. It is still in the lower level of OL's in the league and needs scheme to function.

 

[CASSINO]

The O line is trash. I don't care what your stats say they can't move defenders off the ball. Nothing will change until Grier is gone.

 

[Avigatorx]

Bro, this is not rocket science.

I tell people all the time that ONE OF THE BIGGEST SIGNS OF BEING A GREAT QB, believe it or not, is an incomplete pass- THROW IT AWAY!!!

For all the wonderful things that Tua is both as a human being & a talented football player, HE MAY BE THE DUMBEST MOTHERFOCKER IN THE NFL when it comes to “knowing thyself”.

Bro, he MUST know he gets awkward the longer he holds the ball. He MUST know the risk of taking a big hit is not worth ONE AMAZING PLAY. He MUST know (cuz we’re taught since pop warner) DONT TAKE THE NEGATIVE PLAY. And he must KNOW how quickly he can overcome a throw away with Tyreek on the field.

But, at this point I don’t blame Tua anymore because it’s quite obvious that no one has threatened him the way he should be threatened. If I were McDaniel I’d tell him, “If you don’t start throwing the ball away when necessary, I’m going to sit your arse down. What is it about you convulsing into throwing up Latin Kings or TNS or IMP (all Miami gangs back in the day for you non305 pu$$ies [just Joshing]) do you not understand?”

Im not holding it against Tua for doing something every other QB in the league does (Except Aaron Rodgers) on a regular basis.

They all hold on to the ball too long and try to make plays. It takes a lot of time and experience before these guys know when to just throw it away.

Is it something Tua needs to get better at? Absolutely.

It will come with time, but not something to rage about.

 

[GRYPHONK]

I haven't read past the first page, but am I missing something? I read those stats as good for the O line as per league rank, not bad.

Right now, Miami is in bad shape, for the future with the O line.

Brewer has settled in and, overall, has done better then I expected. So it appears GRYPHONK was wrong with respect to Brewer. My criticisms of his early issues don't seem to be there anymore.

However, is Paul any good? I mean how's he doing? Miami absolutely needs 2 new Guards. I would hate to think they need to new T's as well.

Either way, the line has played solid. I think what happens is they have a quarter or couple series where they just outright suck. Then, the rest of the game play pretty darn good. The problem is we remember the bad way more then the good unfortunately. It's easy to remember Brewer had 2 holding penalties against the Rams. But it's easy to forget, he kept Tua off his back all game.

 

[tommyp]

Eye test: Does it look like they dominate anyone at all? Can they hold their blocks if Tua doesn't get it out in 2 seconds? Do you trust them on a 4th and 1 to push the other team to get a 1st down?

no, no and no