Michael Vick....the most overrated QB of all time | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Michael Vick....the most overrated QB of all time

nyjunc said:
Manning had a Championship team around him, Manning should have 2-3 SB apps. Vick led an average team to an NFC Title Game.

Manning has been the reason Indy hasn't won more in the playoffs and while peyton is better than Vick he is still overrated b/c some people think he's in the discussion for best of all time or that he is better than Brady and he's not near the discussion for best ever and he's not near Brady.
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i completely agree on that
 
Well I don't think Peyton Manning is STUPID enough to fight damn dogs in the first place....

I find what Vick did was more just plain STUPID than it was degenerate....despite the fact that what he did was a felony....he should've been locked up and had to serve time just for being that STUPID...

Vick was an athlete trying to play quarterback.....he was consistently the lowest rated passer in the league from inside the pocket....and that's what seperates great quarterbacks from the rest....always has...always will...

Peyton Manning won the superbowl with his defense ranked DEAD LAST in the NFL against the run....which stopping the run is the "holy grail" to achieving a championship if you ask the football God...Bill Parcells himself...

Vick was never going to win a championship....Atlanta has a REAL quarterback now that's going to make Falcon fans (as well as Arthur Blank) forget all about Vick....
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Well I don't think Peyton Manning is STUPID enough to fight damn dogs in the first place....

I find what Vick did was more just plain STUPID than it was degenerate....despite the fact that what he did was a felony....he should've been locked up and had to serve time just for being that STUPID...

Vick was an athlete trying to play quarterback.....he was consistently the lowest rated passer in the league from inside the pocket....and that's what seperates great quarterbacks from the rest....always has...always will...

Peyton Manning won the superbowl with his defense ranked DEAD LAST in the NFL against the run....which stopping the run is the "holy grail" to achieving a championship if you ask the football God...Bill Parcells himself...

Vick was never going to win a championship....Atlanta has a REAL quarterback now that's going to make Falcon fans (as well as Arthur Blank) forget all about Vick....
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Manning's D in 2006 carried that team to a Championship, they were a completely different defense in the postseason and peyton only had the one good half against NE in postseason. Outside of that he was just along for the ride and it was a complete joke he got the MVP in the SB.
 
The Colts defense was completely different in the playoffs....but that doesn't change the fact that they were dead last in the league against the run the entire season.....if it wasn't for Peyton Manning they wouldn't have been in the playoffs to begin with....

Also...Peyton Manning set an NFL RECORD in 2006 year on his way to leading them to the superbowl by converting 56.1% of 3rd down plays....keeping that defense off the field as much as possible...

Since the Colts drafted Manning, they've been the best team in the league on 3rd AND 4th down conversions....

You sound like you want him to give his ring back or something...lol...

If he does.....Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson should follow suit....
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Well I don't think Peyton Manning is STUPID enough to fight damn dogs in the first place....

I find what Vick did was more just plain STUPID than it was degenerate....despite the fact that what he did was a felony....he should've been locked up and had to serve time just for being that STUPID...

Vick was an athlete trying to play quarterback.....he was consistently the lowest rated passer in the league from inside the pocket....and that's what seperates great quarterbacks from the rest....always has...always will...

Peyton Manning won the superbowl with his defense ranked DEAD LAST in the NFL against the run....which stopping the run is the "holy grail" to achieving a championship if you ask the football God...Bill Parcells himself...

Vick was never going to win a championship....Atlanta has a REAL quarterback now that's going to make Falcon fans (as well as Arthur Blank) forget all about Vick....
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it's not a question of intelligence at all.

Deion sanders said it best in a segment on nfl network (with dukes, faulk and sapp, it can be found on nfl.com) . Those guys grow in a certain culture, they learn ways in life and stuff that seems normal to them but is not acceptable by the standards of the law. Then you mix in the obvious lack of paternity and "model-ing" by some african-american fathers, which doesn't help the devellopment of a child in every way.

I'm getting into a social debate here, and i might sound like an apologist that puts all the blame on the way he was raised and his surroundings who mis-educated the guy, but i think it's more fair to put in those arguments/facts than to just stamp the stupid label on his forehead. It just seems like pressing the "easy button" to me



as for the "vick was an athlete playing quarterback", i fully agree, and while he wasn't generating conventional numbers, he was still very productive, efficient (at what he did) and gathered crowds everywhere, even on TV, to watch the guy do his thing.
 
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JT-forpresident said:
it's not a question of intelligence at all.

Deion sanders said it best in a segment on nfl network (with dukes, faulk and sapp, it can be found on nfl.com) . Those guys grow in a certain culture, they learn ways in life and stuff that seems normal to them but is not acceptable by the standards of the law. Then you mix in the obvious lack of paternity and "model-ing" by some african-american fathers, which doesn't help the devellopment of a child in every way.

I'm getting into a social debate here, and i might sound like an apologist that puts all the blame on the way he was raised and his surroundings who mis-educated the guy, but i think it's more fair to put in those arguments/facts than to just stamp the stupid label on his forehead. It just seems like pressing the "easy button" to me
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Listen...I've been to ****fights....I've been to dogfights....I've known people that raised roosters just to fight them....I've known people that raised pit bulls just to fight them....

...and ya know what? They ALL knew it was against the law....just like Vick did....they all knew it was wrong....just like a dope dealer knows selling dope is against the law....but they do it anyway...

Except they weren't MILLIONAIRES that stood to lose what Vick did.....which makes him more STUPID than they were...

When you're the highest paid player in a league full of MILLIONAIRES.....risking all of it just to fight a damn dog is INEXCUSABLE in the IGNORANCE department...

The fact is that Vick wanted to still be a thug do thuggy things because he thought he'd never get caught.....not because he didn't know any better....or he wouldn't have lied through his ***....

It was an underground dog fighting ring that HE funded...
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Listen...I've been to ****fights....I've been to dogfights....I've known people that raised roosters just to fight them....I've known people that raised pit bulls just to fight them....

...and ya know what? They ALL knew it was against the law....just like Vick did....they all knew it was wrong....just like a dope dealer knows selling dope is against the law....but they do it anyway...

Except they weren't MILLIONAIRES that stood to lose what Vick did.....which makes him more STUPID than they were...

When you're the highest paid player in a league full of MILLIONAIRES.....risking all of it just to fight a damn dog is INEXCUSABLE in the IGNORANCE department...

The fact is that Vick wanted to still be a thug do thuggy things because he thought he'd never get caught.....not because he didn't know any better....or he wouldn't have lied through his ***....

It was an underground dog fighting ring that HE funded...
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don't hate the player hate the game ! lol

i understand what you're saying, but all that attitude is the result of an education, of an environment. This thought process and this way of living doesn't just pop out of his *** and i understand he had to pay for his actions, and he did, but now is the time to find out:

1- will he learn and evolve as a man from that experience ?
2- if #1 happens, will he ever get a chance to prove it to the world ?
 
As for his play, if Vick is really this great, under-appreciated El Greco of quarterbacks because of the Falcons' win-loss record, then what do you think of Jay Fiedler? Or is win-loss the only variable when it is convenient?
 
ih8brady said:
As for his play, if Vick is really this great, under-appreciated El Greco of quarterbacks because of the Falcons' win-loss record, then what do you think of Jay Fiedler? Or is win-loss the only variable when it is convenient?
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is this question directed towards me ?
 
This apologist rhetoric of environment, culture or up-bringing is ridiculous. There's not a violent act or crime or inhumanity that some culture or ideology doesn't justify, and belonging to a certain lifestyle doesn't excuse you from the rules of society. There are cultures that mandate children to get stoned for disobedience or that dissidents can be imprisoned or various wars to be justified. Do you think a thief is kosher because his father introduced him to crime? Vick was a grown man with every opportunity in life, but he committed illegal acts of wanton cruelties. He also violated financial contracts. He should face the music no different than any other citizen.


The real irony is that this relativism justifies any punishment for Vick, because the punishers also have cultures and lifestyles and that can be used as their justifier if you follow moral relativism.
 
Well it's not as if Michael Vick is uneducated.....he's a high school graduate that attended a division-1 University on a scholarship to play football...

I've got 16 years of education, and have never once sat in a classroom where the issue of dog fighting being illegal was ever a subject of discussion....it's just something you know....especially if you've ever been around it...as he obviously had been...you don't get involved in it without knowing what the parameters are....and the risks...

You see....a friend of mine years ago used to raise pits and fight them....and yes...he was a black man....an educated black man....and all of us knew what would happen if they ever got caught....including himself...

However, if he was a millionaire that stood to lose everything he had...on top of being thrown in jail....I would have STRONGLY advised him to reconsider....

Either Vick never surrounded himself with anyone to slap him upside the head and tell him that...(which I don't believe).....or if there was somebody...he obviously snubbed the advice...

Deion Sanders, Jamie Dukes, etc.....made it into a cultural issue in Vick's defense....as if he didn't have a choice....or didn't understand what he was doing....nonsense...

Will Vick become a better man because of it? Who knows....but I'd be willing to bet that he'll have plenty of time to comtemplate it working a construction job for $10 an hour....

All just to fight a dog....see how stupid that is?
 
TedSlimmJr said:
Well it's not as if Michael Vick is uneducated.....he's a high school graduate that attended a division-1 University on a scholarship to play football...

I've got 16 years of education, and have never once sat in a classroom where the issue of dog fighting being illegal was ever a subject of discussion....it's just something you know....especially if you've ever been around it...as he obviously had been...you don't get involved in it without knowing what the parameters are....and the risks...

You see....a friend of mine years ago used to raise pits and fight them....and yes...he was a black man....an educated black man....and all of us knew what would happen if they ever got caught....including himself...

However, if he was a millionaire that stood to lose everything he had...on top of being thrown in jail....I would have STRONGLY advised him to reconsider....

Either Vick never surrounded himself with anyone to slap him upside the head and tell him that...(which I don't believe).....or if there was somebody...he obviously snubbed the advice...

Deion Sanders, Jamie Dukes, etc.....made it into a cultural issue in Vick's defense....as if he didn't have a choice....or didn't understand what he was doing....nonsense...

Will Vick become a better man because of it? Who knows....but I'd be willing to bet that he'll have plenty of time to comtemplate it working a construction job for $10 an hour....

All just to fight a dog....see how stupid that is?
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yeah i understand what you're saying, being a reckless professional who jeopardizes his career because of personnal interests/hobbies... just like roethlisberger who drove a bike without a helmet, or winslow who did bike tricks and blew his knee, etc.

i understand where you're gettin' at

but if we ask ourselves why did he do it then ?

ben doesn't find helmets comfortable, he likes choppers, okay
winslow is a reckless, crazy mother****er (watch the i'm a soldier tape on youtube...) , so we know he's a radical human being
michael did dog fighting because..... .... ... ? no one can answer that, and if you don't know the purpose of him doing it, then you can't have a verdict.

i know michael vick had suspicious people around him, and maybe he was investing his money in a business his buddies wanted to roll with... i'm just speculating here obviously and giving an example

But what i'm trying to say is that there is something behind this. I can't believe he's just stupid like you said. Influence, education (lack thereof), stardom... there's something in his mind or his life that made him do it, made him feel free to do it, and while the action in itself was stupid, how much responsible is he, really ? Obviously you can't come to court and say i was mis-educated and my buddies are criminals, lol, he had to pay for what he did.

anyways... if he wants to come back to the nfl, he'll have to tell the whole world, why he did it, and then you'll come back to me and i'll agree or disagree with the stupid label.
 
ih8brady said:
This apologist rhetoric of environment, culture or up-bringing is ridiculous. There's not a violent act or crime or inhumanity that some culture or ideology doesn't justify, and belonging to a certain lifestyle doesn't excuse you from the rules of society. There are cultures that mandate children to get stoned for disobedience or that dissidents can be imprisoned or various wars to be justified. Do you think a thief is kosher because his father introduced him to crime? Vick was a grown man with every opportunity in life, but he committed illegal acts of wanton cruelties. He also violated financial contracts. He should face the music no different than any other citizen.


The real irony is that this relativism justifies any punishment for Vick, because the punishers also have cultures and lifestyles and that can be used as their justifier if you follow moral relativism.
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oh don't get my wrong i completely agree. What i want though is to understand.

People don't seem to want to understand, people don't want to hear about michael vick getting his thing together and playing again. The buzz i get is people labeled him as a bum a criminal, and that he should get no chance to get back on his feet (the right way that is )

from a social standpoint, it will be a great victory for every honest inmates in america who are willing to live a new life and learn from their mistakes. I'm getting offtopic but whenever a case to a famous person like mike vick happens, people pay close attention and there are lessons and messages that come out from those situations. That aspect of the mike vick case is far more interesting to me and that's why it pisses me off to see people hit the easy button with him when we have the opportunity to send a poweful message to those in need of a second chance throughout the country


***btw i'm no criminal and i'm not related to any criminal so it's not a personal matter for me
 
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