My biggest concern, and why next week could get REALLY interesting, really fast.

[ChrisHanson]

you can call me foolish all you want.
i based what i said on what i've heard. what i've read, and i doubt that i'm the only person on here that thinks manning is done in indy.
as unpopular as it might be to think the colts will let manning walk, crazier things have happened. imo

I didn't call you foolish. I wrote that it's foolish to presume to know what the Colts will do. Again, I broke it down in a very logical way. I've yet to see anyone who feels the Colts are going to just cut a healthy Manning do the same. Cutting a healthy Manning is crazy. A healthy Peyton gives them their best shot at another Super Bowl. And yes, crazy things happen in this league...that's why I've used things like "IMO" and "I think" instead of acting as if I KNOW anything for certain about Peyton and the Colts.

 

[ChrisHanson]

i agree with you 100%, but for some reason the owner of the colts feels like he was screwed by peyton manning and his agent, along with bill polian, last year when they were negotiating mannings contract extension not once did the severity of mannings neck injury surface until after the contract was done. ( i heard this on the radio last week so sorry no link) so in closing i agree with you if i was the owner of the colts there is no way i would let manning walk. having said that all signs point to an ugly divorce.
also are you calling me stupid ?

No I'm not calling you stupid. If the Colts cut a healthy manning they will be the stupid ones.

 

[ChrisHanson]

If you're trying to convince yourself they won't take Andrew Luck you should stop. They're taking him. Also Peyton is tying up $28 million in salary cap, they have an opt out option on his contract which won't count any dead money towards their cap. The fastest way to rebuild that defense is to use that money in free agency. Pagano wants to run a 3-4, he can go out and get Soliai, Mario Williams and about 6 or 7 other free agents with that money and rebuild the defense in one season.

I'm not trying to convince myself of anything. Again, I'm using logic and most aren't.

And if you thnk $28 million will be enough to get Solia, Williams and 6 or 7 other FA's I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

 

[FinaticalFinfan]

Why? You sound so certain. How? It's foolish to act as if you know for certain. Instead, look at this logically.

Question: Why is there a draft?

Answer: To make NFL teams better Incorrect. It is a process that, along with the salary cap, helps try and create a fair playing field so there isn't a "stacking" of teams.

Question: Will drafting Luck make the Colts better if...again...IF Peyton is healthy?

Answer: NO! Incorrect. Since you used an "if" I will to. "If" Luck is everything everyone is saying than the Colts will be better off LONGER.

Question: Do you know what the success rate of 1st round QB's are?

Answer: Less than 50% live up to their expectations I am not sure if that number is completely accurate, but even if it is, are you saying that you NEVER draft a qb in the first round? Ever?

Question: Is Manning most likley the best QB to ever play the game?

Answer: YES! I wouldn't say most likely...more like in the debate for sure. Marino, Montanna, Elway, Farve, Brady, Unitas.....there are a handful that are in that debate.

Question: If Peyton is healthy, how much longer will he play?

Answer: No one except Manning knows for certain, but most experts think another 4-5 seasons That might be a little optimistic...not many last till 40-41 yrs. of age. (I think he will be 36 at the start of next season.)

Question: If Manning is healthy, what is the Colts biggest weakness?

Answer: Defense Purely speculation, but Manning on the offense would lead me to agree with you, if he comes back close to the form he played last.

Question: If Manning is healthy, what could the Colts get for their #1 pick?

Answer: A hell of a lot of ways to fix their defensive holes If the Colts keep Manning, they will be in salary cap HELL! And 3 first rounders over the course of the next 3 years is NO guarantee they will hit on all those picks and fix their "weakness". And by that time, Manning may be all done....he does have a small window and the fact is with Manning they probably won't be able to do much in free agency due to his huge cap hit.



Conclussion: IMO, if Manning is healthy I don't see the Colts cutting him.

Hey, you may be right. I just do not see them passing on Luck....period! I think there are too many negative things that will adversly affect the Colts as an organization short term (imo) and long term to keep him. If healthy, I see him going to another team, playing at a high level for a couple years or so (Montanna comes to mind) and returning to Indy on a one day contract to retire as a Colt and get fitted for a yellow jacket.

 

[The Tannehills Have Eyes]

If Manning is healthy, most experts think he'll play for 4 to 5 more years. It's too soon to take Luck to "learn" from Manning. This option makes the least sense. It's probably the most popular among stupid fans and pundits who care for nothing more than ratings, but it's pure unadulterated stupidity. It will ruin the franchise. IF Peyton is healthy you trade that #1 pick and fix the defense. A healthy Peyton is the surest thing to getting back to the Super Bowl. Luck, with a crapping defense, gets you nowhere.

These "experts" are ****ing retarded he's not going pull a farve and play till he's 41 the average QB retires at 38

 

[ChrisHanson]

YOU don't see it.. But most people do. It's a very common hypothesis/conclusion that Peyton will not be playing in Indy next year. Is it "certain" ? No, but a highly plausible outcome.

There are lots of common hypothesis/conclusions that are flat out wrong. Common doesn't equal correct.

I never said that it wasn't plausible. I said it was foolish for the Colts to cut a healthy Manning and I listed a few reasons as to why. So far all I've gotten in return from those who believe what you do is "because I heard" or "because it's common" etc etc. Not very convincing. I prefer to think for myself instead of just parroting pundits or strangers on a message board. You know, those same pundits who told us that Harbaugh was Miami's coach, Fisher was Miami's coach, McCoy was Miami's coach, and Peyton was cleared to play.

 

[ChrisHanson]

Hey, you may be right. I just do not see them passing on Luck....period! I think there are too many negative things that will adversly affect the Colts as an organization short term (imo) and long term to keep him. If healthy, I see him going to another team, playing at a high level for a couple years or so (Montanna comes to mind) and returning to Indy on a one day contract to retire as a Colt and get fitted for a yellow jacket.

I don't think you're comprehending what I wrote about some things.

First, you're wrong about the draft. The REASON for the draft is to help makes teams better. The PROCESS of the draft is to help teams not become stacked. Two different things.

Second, Luck is not better than a healthy Manning. Period. You're remark about what I wrote is illogical and obtuse.

Third, the number is accurate. I didn't just pull it out of my ***. And no, I never said don't draft a QB in the 1st round. Again, illogical and obtuse statement.

Forth, "most likely" and "in the debate" mean the same thing. Comprehension problems again.

Fifth, QB's take so few hits nowadays that we are seeing them play longer and longer. 40 years old is not reaching for a QB.

Sixth, you think saying that the Colts biggest weakness with a healthy Manning is defense is "specualtion"? I don't think you understand what that word means.

So you're saying that if the keep Manning they will be in cap hell, and because they can't count on "hitting" on their 3 first round picks they should just drop a healthy Manning and take their chances with one 1st round pick? Really? Seriously? hahahaha!


Again, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. You're opinion is your opinion. All I ask is that before MY opinion is shot to hell please at least make an attempt to present your opinion in a logical way. I have with mine.

 

[FinaticalFinfan]

I don't think you're comprehending what I wrote about some things. Or, you don't like what I responded.

First, you're wrong about the draft. The REASON for the draft is to help makes teams better. The PROCESS of the draft is to help teams not become stacked. Two different things. Again, I think you have it wrong. The NFL did not create the draft to help teams get better, that could be done in any way. They needed (reason) a format that would be fair to all. But, a silly argument nonetheless. You say tomatoe ,I say tomato.

Second, Luck is not better than a healthy Manning. Period. You're remark about what I wrote is illogical and obtuse. How so? you wrote:
"Question: Will drafting Luck make the Colts better if...again...IF Peyton is healthy?
Answer: NO!" and my response was " Incorrect. Since you used an "if" I will to. "If" Luck is everything everyone is saying than the Colts will be better off LONGER."

It was just as logical as your statement.


third, the number is accurate. I didn't just pull it out of my ***. And no, I never said don't draft a QB in the 1st round. Again, illogical and obtuse statement. And I never said you did pull it out of your ***. And I never said you said to never draft a qb in the 1st rd, I asked a question because all you provided was a reason not to draft a qb in the first round. And I don't see a better time TO draft one than the Colts have now..aging vet qb, a "once in a lifetime" talent prospect, salary cap issues.

Forth, "most likely" and "in the debate" mean the same thing. Comprehension problems again. Really?? They mean the same thing? OK. Me thinks you are the one needing comprehension classes.

Fifth, QB's take so few hits nowadays that we are seeing them play longer and longer. 40 years old is not reaching for a QB. Ok, so out of the starting qb's last yr, how many were 40 yrs old or older?

Sixth, you think saying that the Colts biggest weakness with a healthy Manning is defense is "specualtion"? I don't think you understand what that word means. Sure I do....do you? Cause when you try and predict the future, that is exactly what you are doing.

So you're saying that if the keep Manning they will be in cap hell, yes. and because they can't count on "hitting" on their 3 first round picks they should just drop a healthy Manning You know they will only get an extra 1st rounder each year, right? and take their chances with one 1st round pick? on Luck, yes.Really? Really really (in my best Shrek voice)Seriously? As serious as ones opinion on a football message board can be I guess..hahahaha! Glad to see ya smile!


Again, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. You're opinion is your opinion. All I ask is that before MY opinion is shot to hell please at least make an attempt to present your opinion in a logical way. I have with mine.

Dude, I will be honest. I did present it in a logical way and gave reasons why....asked a couple questions and in return was insulted...have a good day.

 

[CANDolphan]

ChrisH, the Colts cant afford to keep Manning and Luck on the same roster, and you build for the future, which is why you develop through the draft and not through free agency and massive trades. You always want to keep a certain axis of talent on the spectrum of cost and picks. It's rather simple and "logical" as you said. Peyton is getting cut. I can say with absolute certainty that he is going to get cut.

You entered the cavaet of "if Peyton is healthy", which is a risk the Colts cannot take. His neck his healthy, but the nerve endings are not growing back. What does this mean? It means Peyton can take the punishment of the NFL no problem, but he may have issues with velocity due to loss of feeling in his throwing arm.

Luck is a once in a decade prospect who happens to belong to the team that drafted the LAST prospect that was at this level of prospect. Manning is 36 years old and has an injury that not many would be able to come back from. It's time to sever ties and move on, with the guy who appears to be the next Peyton Manning.

It's really baffling that anyone would try to argue otherwise. Your responses to people thus far have been hilariously immature and stink of an 18 year old with a complex. "Please try to present an articulate and logical retort like I have with mine" is probably the most condescending remark I've read on here in a while and that says something!

 

[MiamiMike74]

I don't think you're comprehending what I wrote about some things.

First, you're wrong about the draft. The REASON for the draft is to help makes teams better. The PROCESS of the draft is to help teams not become stacked. Two different things.

Second, Luck is not better than a healthy Manning. Period. You're remark about what I wrote is illogical and obtuse.

Third, the number is accurate. I didn't just pull it out of my ***. And no, I never said don't draft a QB in the 1st round. Again, illogical and obtuse statement.

Forth, "most likely" and "in the debate" mean the same thing. Comprehension problems again.

Fifth, QB's take so few hits nowadays that we are seeing them play longer and longer. 40 years old is not reaching for a QB.

Sixth, you think saying that the Colts biggest weakness with a healthy Manning is defense is "specualtion"? I don't think you understand what that word means.

So you're saying that if the keep Manning they will be in cap hell, and because they can't count on "hitting" on their 3 first round picks they should just drop a healthy Manning and take their chances with one 1st round pick? Really? Seriously? hahahaha!


Again, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. You're opinion is your opinion. All I ask is that before MY opinion is shot to hell please at least make an attempt to present your opinion in a logical way. I have with mine.

i guess for me this how i see this peyton manning situation unfolding, (IMO)... i see to grown men campaigning for public support, peyton manning on 1 side and jim irsay on the other
i see a lot of people making false statements in the media in order to be the first to report the " BREAKING NEWS".
but for me,
this is why, and again( IMO) i think the colts are going to release peyton manning, for what ever reason the owner of the colts has decided to rebuild, and if you read the article in i believe the "indy star"( i could be wrong) peyton manning said it himself, everyday he comes to work and another person that has been a part of his life for the last 13 or 14 years shows up to work, and 1 day the keys to the facilities don't work. or another person has been fired that's 1 reason.
2 his coach is gone
3 soon perhaps jeff saturday retires among other colts, or perhaps others leaving as a free agent.
i also believe jim irsay did an interview yesterday on the nfl network and his words were pretty telling.
i don' t know man your right everyone has an opinion ,
IMO it just seems like there is more to this story and if i'm right and the colts release him, they will regret it for a very long time IMO. maybe i'm reading too much into what manning has said and what the colts owner has said? i don't know.
or in some sick way this is all just 1 big mind f#ck. and the colts will end up with manning and luck......... i know this can't happen.

 

[Shaman]

IMO, I think it's fairly moot anyway since Peyton's health will most likely still be an issue when the bonus comes due.

But one reason the Colts may be willing to cut him is the other 52 guys on that roster. This team began showing major cracks in their foundation in 2010, when they were 10-6. Not having Peyton I think just speeded up that decline. So the question then becomes, how long will it take to rebuild this franchise? Perhaps with a Peyton in his prime it could be done fairly soon. But Peyton Manning might be 38 or 39 by the time this team is ready to be a Champion again, and it's quite possible he may not be the same QB at that age than he was even last year.

So now they have an opportunity to draft perhaps the most lauded QB prospect since John Elway. And if Andrew Luck can come close to living up to the billing, it might very well be possible that while he may never be as good as Peyton Manning has been, he could very well be the better QB of the two in another 3 years.

 

[theguy]

I'm not trying to convince myself of anything. Again, I'm using logic and most aren't.

And if you thnk $28 million will be enough to get Solia, Williams and 6 or 7 other FA's I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

Your logic is based on how informed you are of the Colts situation which appears to be not very informed.

Salary cap issues:
The Colts are already over Cap for 2012. They would be about 35M (28M bonus + 7M base salary) over cap if they retain Manning. They could cut: Dallas Clark, Gary Brackett, Joseph Addai, Melvin Bulitt, Adam Vinatieri, Jerry Hughes, Donald Brown, Antonio Johnson, Zac Diles, Fili Moala, Justin Snow Dwight Freeney and Antoine Bethea and still be 3M over cap (not counting the replacement of all these players yet). There's some financial wizardry they could do to move the bonus to a later date to free up some room, but the severity of his cap hit should still be very apparent.

This also makes trading Manning an impossibility because the cap hit would destroy the team. They would lose Manning and the majority of their starters.
http://www.coltsauthority.com/2012-archives/january/the-colts-cannot-trade-peyton-manning.html

Injury issue:
You continue to add the caveat of a healthy Manning. The Colts have said he has not passed a Colts physical and have not been cleared by the organization. They have exactly 1 February month (luckily it's a leap year?) to decide whether to cut him or not. All other teams will have the rest of the season to evaluate his progress.

Andrew Luck Issue:
They cannot draft both. If they do, it will be a public PR move that will destroy the organization long term. some issues that arise will be fielding a mediocre team with Manning, stunting Luck's development, leveraging Luck's inexperience against his second contract, and years of mediocre finishes resulting in undesirable drafting conditions.
http://www.coltsauthority.com/2012-archives/january/rebuilding-the-colts-possible-plans.html

I'm also not sure Irsay wants to be known as the guy who passed on a sure thing if Luck fits the bill.


No one knows for sure what the Colts will do, but odds are they won't do it halfassed. Either They're all in with Manning and trade out of the top spot, or he's cut. If the decision has to be made in 1 month, it's leaning on cutting Manning.

 

[theguy]

Back to the OP, I learned that if Manning is cut, he immediately becomes a free agent. The best case scenario is that he's let go before FA begins so we can make a run at him, then make a run at flynn (if Philbin thinks he's deserving), and then make moves to trade up in the draft if need be. If you're a Dolphin fan, you'd want to her Manning news sooner rather than later.

 

[MiamiMike74]

I didn't call you foolish. I wrote that it's foolish to presume to know what the Colts will do. Again, I broke it down in a very logical way. I've yet to see anyone who feels the Colts are going to just cut a healthy Manning do the same. Cutting a healthy Manning is crazy. A healthy Peyton gives them their best shot at another Super Bowl. And yes, crazy things happen in this league...that's why I've used things like "IMO" and "I think" instead of acting as if I KNOW anything for certain about Peyton and the Colts.

lmao, just cause i sometimes forget to put "IMO or I Think " at the end of what i wrote does mean sh@t.
i figured the fact that i responded to something in writing people would know that this was my opinion . IMO

 

[dolfanduwayne63]

you can call me foolish all you want.
i based what i said on what i've heard. what i've read, and i doubt that i'm the only person on here that thinks manning is done in indy.
as unpopular as it might be to think the colts will let manning walk, crazier things have happened. imo

I believe this to be the case as well. After witnessing the Colts debacle of a season this year I think Irsay has finally come to the realization that without Manning, whose end is'nt very far off regardless of health,this team is not capable of success. Because of this he has brought in a new GM and coaching staff who want to completely rebuild this team around Andrew Luck in a image which they deem as a more complete team. The hope is this will make this a contender over the long haul, not for the present. I don't know how successful this will be but it's Irsay's call and I believe this to be the route he's taking.