Just for the sake of being obnoxious. There is an ongoing competition amongst the Tannehaters to be the biggest jerk. Nothing more than that.
NFL Quarterbacks | Interested in the Forum's Perceptions
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Just for the sake of being obnoxious. There is an ongoing competition amongst the Tannehaters to be the biggest jerk. Nothing more than that.
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I'm sorry Kaepernick is listed as 15 or above in any list and I just cannot fathom it. IMHO, he is a QB carried by a superior offensive juggernaut beginning with the best OL in football and that includes a top 5 RB and TE before you even get to a good stable of WR's. If your lists all have his performances as being top 15 while being surrounded by THAT MUCH TALENT, I just cannot vote for any of them. If you want a better ranking, here's mine off the top of my head ... which I find better than any of the 6 you have listed:
1. Peyton Manning (epic)
2. Aaron Rodgers (single-handedly carried his team)
3. Drew Brees (took a team with decent talent and one great TE and turned it into an offensive juggernaut)
4. Tom Brady (possibly his best smoke and mirrors season ever, because this team also had virtually no talent at WR and TE ... but is somewhat mitigated by a very good OL and solid RB's)
5. Phillip Rivers (this is what it looks like when everything goes right for him)
6. Andrew Luck (threw some shoulder straps around his team and lugged them into the playoffs and then showed them that no game is ever out of reach)
7. Ben Roethlisberger (did yeoman's work with a weak supporting cast)
8. Nick Foles (benefitted greatly from the very different offense and offensive style of Chip Kelly. Will not duplicate this season, but if this is your career season, well done! Talk about game management while riding a thoroughbread!)
9. Cam Newton (nothing spectacular, but he came through when he needed to, got hot after an early season stumble, and lead his team to a miraculous string of wins. Let's hope he continues on this track, because it was his best year yet at putting the team in a position to win.)
10. Matthew Stafford (rather a down season considering his embarrassment of riches with Megatron and Bush dominating, but when you factor in that many of his passes to Megatron are nothing more than Hail-Marys and his OL wasn't the strongest, you can see why his statistics might not have told the whole story)
11. Russell Wilson (would have been closer to 7'ish if he had finished the season stronger, but it's hard to fault him for the team making the Super Bowl!) I've always liked this guy, and believe he is someone around whom any team could build a franchise.
12. Ryan Tannehill (considering the other teams knew his snap count and whether it was run vs. pass I am amazed at what he accomplished. With the worst OL in the NFL allowing the most sacks and opening the fewest holes for the running game, he did great. Considering how many times he was hit, he was surprisingly durable ... and he wasn't even a running QB. Then to lead the team through the whole personnel turmoil while the team stayed united couldn't have been easy either--although he likely is only one of many doing that and likely he's not the most influential at it. Tannehill had two games that were clearly stolen by the refs--in Foxboro vs. Patriots and arguably in Miami vs. Super Bowl Champion Ravens--which might have raised his record to 10-6 with two wins over Brady. Unfortunately, Bills knowing our snap count and run vs. pass meant they swept us, and once the Jets figured it out, they stifled us too. But all in all his red zone efficiency and 3rd down efficiency all improved despite no TE or WR with any size, losing his starting TE to FA, his FA TE to injury, and his focal point underneath WR to injury, and his starting RB to FA. That showed a lot of improvement in year two, and enough to place him in the middle third of QB's from watching entire teams play.)
13. Andy Dalton (Solid, steady, won a tough division, took a historically subpar franchise into the playoffs again, but in the end he didn't do it in the clutch and he had a lot of offensive weapons)
14. Matt Ryan (lack of an OL really hurt him. When surrounded by all that talent last year and the year before, he looked exceptional. But this year was definitely a down year and full of almosts. He will bounce back next year even if Gonzalez retires. But in the end, he was a mediocre QB this year)
15. Alex Smith (lead his team to a dramatic turnaround under the tutalege of Andy Reid. Not asked to win games, but to manage the team and get its talent to show up, and that's what he did)
16. Jay Cutler (he has a strong arm and watching him is like watching a drunk guy play roulette ... you REALLY never know what's going to happen, but it will be disasterous for someone. It's telling that even while doing well under a QB guru he was still outperformed by his backup McNown, who really should have been on this list in all honesty)
17. Joe Flacco (this is what happens when a pretty decent QB loses his weapons. No Rice to suck up the LB's, no Boldin to win the underneath 1v1's, no Pitta for your safety blanket, and everyone double teaming Torrey Smith at all times because they know nobody else is going to beat them. If you think Rice was healthy this year, I'll ask you again next season when he returns to his usual dominance)
18. Tony Romo (he is like a golfer that every year wins the drive contests but 4 puts and never finishes anywhere near the leader board. Not clutch in the least, constantly digging grave holes, but tantalizingly appealing if someone is foolish enough to equate his stats to only Tony Romo)
19. Matt Cassell (it's hard to do poorly when you have Adrian Peterson taking the defense away and getting short yardage for 3rd down and converting TD's. Add to that that Greg Jennings is still a very good WR and Cordarrelle Patterson is one of the most exciting young WR's in football and definitely had more of a positive impact in 2013 than Percy Harvin ... so far. So, Cassell doesn't get glowing marks for this success, but he was considerably better than the busts Ponder and Freeman, neither of which is good enough).
20. EJ Manuel (mixed reviews for an up and down season, but when he was healthy he really showed some flashes of becoming a good QB. As expected, he came in raw and will take some time to develop, but he has a future for sure).
21. Brandon Weeden (not a good season all around. The future doesn't look too bright for him despite his arm talent)
22. Case Keenum (with the bar set very low, he did OK, but this was not a shining star of a season)
23. Sam Bradford (I have been a Bradford fan for a while, but he just isn't fulfilling his potential. Until they get that OL and WR corps figured out, we may not know whether he ever can, but the results so far haven't been encouraging.)
24. RGIII (foolishly hurt his team by coming back when he missed an entire preseason and crumbling metaphorically and physically. Foolishly threw his teammates under the bus destroying team solidarity in the locker room. Foolishly failed to improve his reading and decision making in the offseason which inevitably lead to poorer statistics and more turnovers this year. Foolishly forced a wedge with the owner to push the coach who best suited his skills out. His play on the field was subpar .... but that's only a fraction of the story for this talented QB)
25. Ryan Fitzpatrick (damning that he is even at 25, but if you had rated their starter he was actually having a very good year before he got injured. Of course, being a running QB, that happens a lot, so that's the price you're going to pay)
26. Chad Henne (this is officially where the QB's are the problem, if your QB is on this part of the list, he is holding your team back)
27. Carson Palmer (with two good WR's and Bruce Ariens calling the shots, this was a pretty good setup for Palmer. Yes, the OL was still bad, but nothing like last year or the year before. He needs to do better)
28. Colin Kaepernick (blessed with a dominant RB, TE, and two very good WR's and the very best OL in football who opens holes that a semi could drive through and protects the QB 1000 times better than any other OL in his division and among the best in the league, you would have to really soil the bed to mess that up. Kaepernick cannot read defenses so he simply makes a first read then runs ... go figure when he hit good defenses in the playoffs he struggled. For a guy that has a cannon for an arm, he sure has accuracy problems. His WR's/TE's/RB's had to adjust to sooo many throws where they were wide open and he STILL couldn't hit them in stride. This guy simply isn't good. If they had almost any other QB in the league they would have done better. His hype factor is through the roof though. If you are going to add all of his excellent offensive teammates into Kaepernick's personal statistics, then sure, he'll look good. It's not quite as hard to run for 15 yards when your TE and WR clear out the entire secondary 40 yards downfield and your RB holds the LB's on the opposite side of the field and your LT is so excellent the DE has to constantly give up sealing the edge to gamble attempting to create pressure. Kaepernick is holding this team back.)
29. Mike Glennon (wow, where to begin. He's tall. He has a big arm. What braintrust drafted him? I'm done)
30. Jason Campbell (he just never gets it. He hasn't shown any improvement reading defenses and he still has accuracy issues. At least he has learned to throw the safe pass and let his WR turn it into a bigger gain.)
31. Eli Manning (this is when you want to hit the "redo" button. Talented guy who had a colossally bad season. Yes injuries and lost preseason time etc., but performances that bad are all on Eli. I like the guy and expect a huge bounce back next year ... but this season was awful.)
32. Matt Schaub (game manager of the once juggernaut Texans ... this shows how important managing a game can be for a team that's good everywhere but not great in the whole)
33. Geno "Buttfumble 2.0" Smith (arrogance and bad decision making is an ugly mixture)
I would have included guys like McNown and Locker who both had good seasons, but hey, these are the guys you listed so these are the guys I rated. Until you provide a list that includes considerations of the talent surrounding them, I can't select any of your options Gravity.
1. Peyton Manning (epic)
2. Aaron Rodgers (single-handedly carried his team)
3. Drew Brees (took a team with decent talent and one great TE and turned it into an offensive juggernaut)
4. Tom Brady (possibly his best smoke and mirrors season ever, because this team also had virtually no talent at WR and TE ... but is somewhat mitigated by a very good OL and solid RB's)
5. Phillip Rivers (this is what it looks like when everything goes right for him)
6. Andrew Luck (threw some shoulder straps around his team and lugged them into the playoffs and then showed them that no game is ever out of reach)
7. Ben Roethlisberger (did yeoman's work with a weak supporting cast)
8. Nick Foles (benefitted greatly from the very different offense and offensive style of Chip Kelly. Will not duplicate this season, but if this is your career season, well done! Talk about game management while riding a thoroughbread!)
9. Cam Newton (nothing spectacular, but he came through when he needed to, got hot after an early season stumble, and lead his team to a miraculous string of wins. Let's hope he continues on this track, because it was his best year yet at putting the team in a position to win.)
10. Matthew Stafford (rather a down season considering his embarrassment of riches with Megatron and Bush dominating, but when you factor in that many of his passes to Megatron are nothing more than Hail-Marys and his OL wasn't the strongest, you can see why his statistics might not have told the whole story)
11. Russell Wilson (would have been closer to 7'ish if he had finished the season stronger, but it's hard to fault him for the team making the Super Bowl!) I've always liked this guy, and believe he is someone around whom any team could build a franchise.
12. Ryan Tannehill (considering the other teams knew his snap count and whether it was run vs. pass I am amazed at what he accomplished. With the worst OL in the NFL allowing the most sacks and opening the fewest holes for the running game, he did great. Considering how many times he was hit, he was surprisingly durable ... and he wasn't even a running QB. Then to lead the team through the whole personnel turmoil while the team stayed united couldn't have been easy either--although he likely is only one of many doing that and likely he's not the most influential at it. Tannehill had two games that were clearly stolen by the refs--in Foxboro vs. Patriots and arguably in Miami vs. Super Bowl Champion Ravens--which might have raised his record to 10-6 with two wins over Brady. Unfortunately, Bills knowing our snap count and run vs. pass meant they swept us, and once the Jets figured it out, they stifled us too. But all in all his red zone efficiency and 3rd down efficiency all improved despite no TE or WR with any size, losing his starting TE to FA, his FA TE to injury, and his focal point underneath WR to injury, and his starting RB to FA. That showed a lot of improvement in year two, and enough to place him in the middle third of QB's from watching entire teams play.)
13. Andy Dalton (Solid, steady, won a tough division, took a historically subpar franchise into the playoffs again, but in the end he didn't do it in the clutch and he had a lot of offensive weapons)
14. Matt Ryan (lack of an OL really hurt him. When surrounded by all that talent last year and the year before, he looked exceptional. But this year was definitely a down year and full of almosts. He will bounce back next year even if Gonzalez retires. But in the end, he was a mediocre QB this year)
15. Alex Smith (lead his team to a dramatic turnaround under the tutalege of Andy Reid. Not asked to win games, but to manage the team and get its talent to show up, and that's what he did)
16. Jay Cutler (he has a strong arm and watching him is like watching a drunk guy play roulette ... you REALLY never know what's going to happen, but it will be disasterous for someone. It's telling that even while doing well under a QB guru he was still outperformed by his backup McNown, who really should have been on this list in all honesty)
17. Joe Flacco (this is what happens when a pretty decent QB loses his weapons. No Rice to suck up the LB's, no Boldin to win the underneath 1v1's, no Pitta for your safety blanket, and everyone double teaming Torrey Smith at all times because they know nobody else is going to beat them. If you think Rice was healthy this year, I'll ask you again next season when he returns to his usual dominance)
18. Tony Romo (he is like a golfer that every year wins the drive contests but 4 puts and never finishes anywhere near the leader board. Not clutch in the least, constantly digging grave holes, but tantalizingly appealing if someone is foolish enough to equate his stats to only Tony Romo)
19. Matt Cassell (it's hard to do poorly when you have Adrian Peterson taking the defense away and getting short yardage for 3rd down and converting TD's. Add to that that Greg Jennings is still a very good WR and Cordarrelle Patterson is one of the most exciting young WR's in football and definitely had more of a positive impact in 2013 than Percy Harvin ... so far. So, Cassell doesn't get glowing marks for this success, but he was considerably better than the busts Ponder and Freeman, neither of which is good enough).
20. EJ Manuel (mixed reviews for an up and down season, but when he was healthy he really showed some flashes of becoming a good QB. As expected, he came in raw and will take some time to develop, but he has a future for sure).
21. Brandon Weeden (not a good season all around. The future doesn't look too bright for him despite his arm talent)
22. Case Keenum (with the bar set very low, he did OK, but this was not a shining star of a season)
23. Sam Bradford (I have been a Bradford fan for a while, but he just isn't fulfilling his potential. Until they get that OL and WR corps figured out, we may not know whether he ever can, but the results so far haven't been encouraging.)
24. RGIII (foolishly hurt his team by coming back when he missed an entire preseason and crumbling metaphorically and physically. Foolishly threw his teammates under the bus destroying team solidarity in the locker room. Foolishly failed to improve his reading and decision making in the offseason which inevitably lead to poorer statistics and more turnovers this year. Foolishly forced a wedge with the owner to push the coach who best suited his skills out. His play on the field was subpar .... but that's only a fraction of the story for this talented QB)
25. Ryan Fitzpatrick (damning that he is even at 25, but if you had rated their starter he was actually having a very good year before he got injured. Of course, being a running QB, that happens a lot, so that's the price you're going to pay)
26. Chad Henne (this is officially where the QB's are the problem, if your QB is on this part of the list, he is holding your team back)
27. Carson Palmer (with two good WR's and Bruce Ariens calling the shots, this was a pretty good setup for Palmer. Yes, the OL was still bad, but nothing like last year or the year before. He needs to do better)
28. Colin Kaepernick (blessed with a dominant RB, TE, and two very good WR's and the very best OL in football who opens holes that a semi could drive through and protects the QB 1000 times better than any other OL in his division and among the best in the league, you would have to really soil the bed to mess that up. Kaepernick cannot read defenses so he simply makes a first read then runs ... go figure when he hit good defenses in the playoffs he struggled. For a guy that has a cannon for an arm, he sure has accuracy problems. His WR's/TE's/RB's had to adjust to sooo many throws where they were wide open and he STILL couldn't hit them in stride. This guy simply isn't good. If they had almost any other QB in the league they would have done better. His hype factor is through the roof though. If you are going to add all of his excellent offensive teammates into Kaepernick's personal statistics, then sure, he'll look good. It's not quite as hard to run for 15 yards when your TE and WR clear out the entire secondary 40 yards downfield and your RB holds the LB's on the opposite side of the field and your LT is so excellent the DE has to constantly give up sealing the edge to gamble attempting to create pressure. Kaepernick is holding this team back.)
29. Mike Glennon (wow, where to begin. He's tall. He has a big arm. What braintrust drafted him? I'm done)
30. Jason Campbell (he just never gets it. He hasn't shown any improvement reading defenses and he still has accuracy issues. At least he has learned to throw the safe pass and let his WR turn it into a bigger gain.)
31. Eli Manning (this is when you want to hit the "redo" button. Talented guy who had a colossally bad season. Yes injuries and lost preseason time etc., but performances that bad are all on Eli. I like the guy and expect a huge bounce back next year ... but this season was awful.)
32. Matt Schaub (game manager of the once juggernaut Texans ... this shows how important managing a game can be for a team that's good everywhere but not great in the whole)
33. Geno "Buttfumble 2.0" Smith (arrogance and bad decision making is an ugly mixture)
I would have included guys like McNown and Locker who both had good seasons, but hey, these are the guys you listed so these are the guys I rated. Until you provide a list that includes considerations of the talent surrounding them, I can't select any of your options Gravity.
Phinatic8u
Club Member
Before Rodgers got hurt he was playing the best football at the qb position.
As WVDolphan posted, the only options are 4, 5 or 6. I looked at Cam Newton's position as a guideline. He was severely overrated. The Panthers essentially carried an average quarterback all season. Only 4, 5 and 6 had Newton in the range he belongs.
I ended up picking 5 because it seemed to come closest to the numbers I use, although there were some exceptions. I didn't want to look it up to see what category everything aligned with. Number 5 has a properly lower rating of Tom Brady and Andrew Luck, along with a justified high spot for Colin Kaepernick.
The only problem I had with 5 were the low ranking of Carson Palmer combined with Matt Ryan too high. If those were flopped I would have aligned with #5 more confidently.
I ended up picking 5 because it seemed to come closest to the numbers I use, although there were some exceptions. I didn't want to look it up to see what category everything aligned with. Number 5 has a properly lower rating of Tom Brady and Andrew Luck, along with a justified high spot for Colin Kaepernick.
The only problem I had with 5 were the low ranking of Carson Palmer combined with Matt Ryan too high. If those were flopped I would have aligned with #5 more confidently.
twistedjay
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I voted 7. I think it was the best of a bad bunch. I have a big problem with Fitzpatrick being rated so high on any of those lists. He is a poor man's Andy Dalton, especially in the clutch.
dabeastdabone
Seasoned Veteran
Non of them are close enough to what I would think to earn a vote.
Naturally no one can force you to do anything you don't want to do. Hell, someone could put a gun to your head and tell you do to something, and of course you could just tell him to pull the trigger. :)
Agreed. They all suck.
JTC111
Viva la resistance!!!
So this had no purpose at all.
What tells you that?
JTC111
Viva la resistance!!!
We could start with the fact that you're now only releasing the individual list criteria privately. And we can end with the fact that you've never stated an actual purpose. And that leads me to believe that the results weren't what you wanted, so you're making it go away now without telling us what this was supposed to show.
Cast a vote and I'd be happy to share the results with you as well. :)
iwastherein1972
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I would love to know the agenda of the OP, but I cannot cast a vote because all 7 lists have major flaws.
They all undervalue Tannehill in my book.
They all overvalue 4-6 guys who belong in a lower tier. Anyone putting ej manuel or geno smith above 27 or 28 is certifiable
They all undervalue Tannehill in my book.
They all overvalue 4-6 guys who belong in a lower tier. Anyone putting ej manuel or geno smith above 27 or 28 is certifiable
If voting is complete I think the criteria should be posted in the thread. It's not earth shattering. I'm sure lots of posters sampled the thread but didn't vote, for whatever reason.
I'll provide a bit of a hint in that #7 differs from the others and is quite simple and amusing, at least I thought so.
I'll provide a bit of a hint in that #7 differs from the others and is quite simple and amusing, at least I thought so.