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Nick Saban vs. Five Coaching "Greats"

matthewcannata

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With some people calling for Nick Saban's head, I decided to do some research, and compare him to five coaches who are considered "great" not only by the media, but by many people on this board.

Nick Saban took over the Miami Dolphins, who were in a complete mess coming off a 4 - 12 season. His first year, he finished 9 - 7. This year, the Dolphins can finish no better than 8 - 8. This is a setback. Does this mean Nick Saban is a bust? Let's find out.

Marvin Lewis
Marvin took over the Bengals in 2003. In his first two seasons as head coach, he finished 8 - 8. In his 3rd season, he finished 11 - 5. The Bengals are now a threat every season.

Tony Dungy
Dungy took over the Tampa Bay Bucaneers in 1996. That year, he went 6 - 10. The next year, he went 10 - 6. In his 3rd season, he went 8 - 8. Did people call Dungy a bust? I don't think so. In his 4th year, he went 11 - 5 and turned them into a winning franchise while he was there.

Jon Gruden
Gruden took over the Bucaneers in 2002. He finished 12 - 4 that year, with a Superbowl win. Almost all of this roster was compiled by Tony Dungy.

Gruden then began to put his type of guys on the team. He went 7 - 9 in 2003. In 2004, he went 5 - 11. Was everyone calling for his head? I don't think so.

In his 4th season as head coach, and his 3rd season of putting his kind of guys on the team, he went 11 - 5.

Dick Vermeil
Dick Vermeil took over a terrible Rams team in 1997. That year, he went 5 - 11. The following year, he went 4 - 12. In his 3rd season, he went 13 - 3 and won the Superbowl.

Bill Parcells
Parcells took over the Cowboys in 2003. He went 10 - 6 his first year. His second year, he went 6 - 10. His third year, he went 9 - 7, and this year, the media is talking about the Cowboys in the Superbowl.

What is the common theme in all of this? All of these coaches took three seasons to completely turn their respective teams around and turn them into consistent winners. The only one who didn't was Tony Dungy, who took four seasons.

There is plenty of research that can still be done to further prove this fact. Only a handful of coaches are able to turn their teams around right away. Bill Belichick is an example, but we all know he is in a league of his own.

So is Nick Saban a bust? The answer, and with the research supporting it, is clearly no! Let's give him a few seasons, four maximum, to turn this team around.

If this team is still missing the playoffs in Saban's fourth season, then he should be considered a bust. But for now, let's just wait and see what he can do with three years remaining on his contract and with his guys on the roster.
 
I definitely agree that next year will tell all, and I think we'll know within the first five games based on how the team comes out of the gate.
 
John Gruden, Dick Vermiel :confused: What about Bellichek, Peyton, Billick?
 
Nice post, and I generally agree with your thoughts. However, I'd be interested to learn how each of these teams salary caps and spending were, when these coaches got going with the respective teams you mentioned. The teams where coaches inherited salary-cap hell are the situations where it takes YEARS to rebuild a team. I'm not quite sure any of those guys inherited quite as big of a mess as Wannstedt and Spielman left Saban. I don't know if any of those coaches were able to accomplish what they did, without acquiring some top-flight free agents to round out their rosters. What top free agent have we grabbed? MAYBE C-pep (we'll see next year about him), and that's it...
 
I definitely agree that next year will tell all, and I think we'll know within the first five games based on how the team comes out of the gate.

I agree ONLY if we can keep the OC and DC that we have and NOT make a host of changes!
 
With some people calling for Nick Saban's head, I decided to do some research, and compare him to five coaches who are considered "great" not only by the media, but by many people on this board.

Nick Saban took over the Miami Dolphins, who were in a complete mess coming off a 4 - 12 season. His first year, he finished 9 - 7. This year, the Dolphins can finish no better than 8 - 8. This is a setback. Does this mean Nick Saban is a bust? Let's find out.

Marvin Lewis
Marvin took over the Bengals in 2003. In his first two seasons as head coach, he finished 8 - 8. In his 3rd season, he finished 11 - 5. The Bengals are now a threat every season.

Tony Dungy
Dungy took over the Tampa Bay Bucaneers in 1996. That year, he went 6 - 10. The next year, he went 10 - 6. In his 3rd season, he went 8 - 8. Did people call Dungy a bust? I don't think so. In his 4th year, he went 11 - 5 and turned them into a winning franchise while he was there.

Jon Gruden
Gruden took over the Bucaneers in 2002. He finished 12 - 4 that year, with a Superbowl win. Almost all of this roster was compiled by Tony Dungy.

Gruden then began to put his type of guys on the team. He went 7 - 9 in 2003. In 2004, he went 5 - 11. Was everyone calling for his head? I don't think so.

In his 4th season as head coach, and his 3rd season of putting his kind of guys on the team, he went 11 - 5.

Dick Vermeil
Dick Vermeil took over a terrible Rams team in 1997. That year, he went 5 - 11. The following year, he went 4 - 12. In his 3rd season, he went 13 - 3 and won the Superbowl.

Bill Parcells
Parcells took over the Cowboys in 2003. He went 10 - 6 his first year. His second year, he went 6 - 10. His third year, he went 9 - 7, and this year, the media is talking about the Cowboys in the Superbowl.

What is the common theme in all of this? All of these coaches took three seasons to completely turn their respective teams around and turn them into consistent winners. The only one who didn't was Tony Dungy, who took four seasons.

There is plenty of research that can still be done to further prove this fact. Only a handful of coaches are able to turn their teams around right away. Bill Belichick is an example, but we all know he is in a league of his own.

So is Nick Saban a bust? The answer, and with the research supporting it, is clearly no! Let's give him a few seasons, four maximum, to turn this team around.

If this team is still missing the playoffs in Saban's fourth season, then he should be considered a bust. But for now, let's just wait and see what he can do with three years remaining on his contract and with his guys on the roster.

Please, let this dude know:

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=174863
 
The only Great in that group is Parcells , although Lewis and Gruden have a chance to achieve that. Dungy is stuck to a system that will win in the regular system and get destroyed in the playoffs. Vermeil is a good coach maybe even very good but great he'll never be. Comparing Saban to good coaches like the ones other than Parcells is valid but Saban hasnt done anything yet to be compared to Parcells as of now
 
Jon Gruden/Tony Dungy success is directly related to having the best GM in the business: Rich McKay.
 
This post is wrong on a bunch of levels. One, the only coaches who can be considered "great" in that bunch is Parcells, for sure, and maybe Vermiel.

And I am a little bit tired of seeing Nick Saban, the man of many words and few deeds, getting compared to coaches who have won SBs.

As for Dungy and Lewis....you think Saban inherited a worse team than those guys? If so, you don't know football very well. Both of those guys inherited perennial crappy franchises.

And in both of those cases, their teams got better the second year. Vermiel didn't improve in his second year in St Louis, but he had taken a team to the SB before, so he at least had that credibility.

We need to stop comparing Saban to other coaches. Esp HOF coaches. One, it makes him look worse by comparison. Two, its pointless. As much as I wish it weren't true, unless he leaves to take the Bama job, he'll be here next year.

And IMO, next year ends the debate on Saban. The facts speak for themselves next season. If he wins the division, gets us a bye, wins a playoff game, he'll have proved me and others wrong and he'll deserve to stay. If he accomplishes less than that, then the FireNickSaban.com website will be up and running and will enjoy widespread support from Dolphins fans everywhere.
 
This post is wrong on a bunch of levels. One, the only coaches who can be considered "great" in that bunch is Parcells, for sure, and maybe Vermiel.

And I am a little bit tired of seeing Nick Saban, the man of many words and few deeds, getting compared to coaches who have won SBs.

As for Dungy and Lewis....you think Saban inherited a worse team than those guys? If so, you don't know football very well. Both of those guys inherited perennial crappy franchises.

And in both of those cases, their teams got better the second year. Vermiel didn't improve in his second year in St Louis, but he had taken a team to the SB before, so he at least had that credibility.

We need to stop comparing Saban to other coaches. Esp HOF coaches. One, it makes him look worse by comparison. Two, its pointless. As much as I wish it weren't true, unless he leaves to take the Bama job, he'll be here next year.

And IMO, next year ends the debate on Saban. The facts speak for themselves next season. If he wins the division, gets us a bye, wins a playoff game, he'll have proved me and others wrong and he'll deserve to stay. If he accomplishes less than that, then the FireNickSaban.com website will be up and running and will enjoy widespread support from Dolphins fans everywhere.

hahahahahaha...
 
5 Great Coaches? I don't know how you rate greatness, but there is no way those guys can be considered great! When you talk about a great coach, I think Shula, Pappa George H, Vince L, etc.
 
5 Great Coaches? I don't know how you rate greatness, but there is no way those guys can be considered great! When you talk about a great coach, I think Shula, Pappa George H, Vince L, etc.

If you noticed, I put great in quotation marks. Do I agree that all five of these guys are great coaches? No.

However, it is what today's media labels them as.
 
This post is wrong on a bunch of levels. One, the only coaches who can be considered "great" in that bunch is Parcells, for sure, and maybe Vermiel.

And I am a little bit tired of seeing Nick Saban, the man of many words and few deeds, getting compared to coaches who have won SBs.

Who do you want me to compare him to? Art Shell? Steve Spurrier? Dave Wannstedt? You can only measure a coach's talent and desire when you compare him to great coaches who have won Superbowls.

As for Dungy and Lewis....you think Saban inherited a worse team than those guys? If so, you don't know football very well. Both of those guys inherited perennial crappy franchises.

Nick Saban inherited a team who had just went 4 - 12. The salary cap was a huge mess. It was so much of a mess that they barely had any money to spend in free agency. Wannstedt and Spielman ran this team into the ground. Nick Saban was able to turn all of that around in one year.

I find it funny that everyone was calling him the greatest coach ever after last season and how he was going to lead us to the Superbowl very soon. After one mediocore season, a lot of people are calling for his head.

Make up your minds.
 
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