Not Another Landry Post

[JTech194]

I want to start off by saying that this is NOT a post about Landry so I don't want it to turn into one. This is more about the concept of the offense, the thinking of the HC and OC and the skill level of the WRs.

I hear a lot of people saying now that Landry is gone we don't have to force feed him so many passes and our offense can be less predictable and more dynamic :thumbsdown. I might have even heard Gase reference being less predictable in Landry's absence but don't quote me on that.

I also hear people saying that the addition of Amendola, and Wilson will make us less predictable and more dynamic.

Here's what's confusing to me and what I want to discuss with you guys\gals.

Why was one player targeted so many times in this offense.

Why were so many plays called for one player?

Was it the coach calling the plays not knowing how to get others involved? Was it the coach not trusting the other players on the team to execute (Stills, Parker, Grant, Thomas etc..) ?

Where should the blame be placed in a situation where one player is targeted way more than other players to the point where the offense becomes predictable? Is it the targeted players fault, the coaches fault or an indictment on the other players? Or some combination?

How did one player end up being the favorite target for 3 different QB's? Were the other players on the roster not getting open fast or consistently enough to be trusted in that way? How will that change now?

Stills and Parker were already on a team that allowed one receiver to get "force fed" 100 catches so I'm not banking on them to drastically improve in the area of getting open and execution and production.

That leaves Amendola, and Wilson. So we're expecting two complementary pieces (historically) to develop into consistent, trust worthy players that the coach and QB will trust enough to run an offense through?

Right now, we have a team full of complementary offensive pieces, are there any other teams that have been or are currently successful with a team full of complementary offensive pieces?

How do you all see it?

 

[andyahs]

Not another Landry post but another attack Gase post in your round about way.

I remember Gase saying he scripted plays to Landry because of his energy which we all loved but I think that wore thin because Landry seemed to only commit to learning so little of the offense.

 

[AJ Duhe]

Right now, we have a team full of complementary offensive pieces, are there any other teams that have been or are currently successful with a team full of complementary offensive pieces?

How do you all see it?

I don’t really think the problem was force feeding Landry. While Landry loved to be heavily involved in the game plan, I don’t think he necessarily “demanded” targets. I do believe Landry was used to supplement the running game with a number of catches close to the line of scrimmage, and he sucked up touches from Ajayi because Ajayi really didn’t have the skill to be used in the passing game.

Here’s where I believe the offense is going. The receivers we have now should be able to attack the whole field, vertically and horizontally. If you look at the NFL now, most teams eschew a dominant threat for multiple weapons, or players you deem as “complimentary”. From the beginning, Gase stated a desire for the offense to be adaptable on a week to week basis, a la the Patriots. With the addition of a TE talent, this roster is now better able to do that.

 

[JTech194]

Not another Landry post but another attack Gase post in your round about way.

I remember Gase saying he scripted plays to Landry because of his energy which we all loved but I think that wore thin because Landry seemed to only commit to learning so little of the offense.

I'm not attacking anyone man. Not sure why you feel that way. I'm just a fan, evaluating my team and trying to evaluate and understand the moves being made and if I can expect better production on the field.

Yea I'm not buying the "Not Learning the Offense" narrative it just doesn't add up to me. How do you catch sooo many passes running the wrong routes? Why did the QB always seem to look for him if he was often running the wrong routes? And finally..... Why would they offer a guy who doesn't study the playbook and runs incorrect routes 13M a year on a multi year deal (if you believe that narrative).

Landry wasn't the reason he was the target of so many passes, I'm trying to understand what was? Coaches, other players lack of ability? Why??

 

[JTech194]

I don’t really think the problem was force feeding Landry. While Landry loved to be heavily involved in the game plan, I don’t think he necessarily “demanded” targets. I do believe Landry was used to supplement the running game with a number of catches close to the line of scrimmage, and he sucked up touches from Ajayi because Ajayi really didn’t have the skill to be used in the passing game.

Here’s where I believe the offense is going. The receivers we have now should be able to attack the whole field, vertically and horizontally. If you look at the NFL now, most teams eschew a dominant threat for multiple weapons, or players you deem as “complimentary”. From the beginning, Gase stated a desire for the offense to be adaptable on a week to week basis, a la the Patriots. With the addition of a TE talent, this roster is now better able to do that.

I agree that Landry and those damn screen passes were used to make up for our inability to run block consistently. But why didn't we use other players to run some of those screens so we're less predictable? Grant can run screens, stills? We tried some of them with Parker but they never seemed to work. I just don't think Gase CHOSE to call landry's number so much, I think he didn't trust the other options to execute.

And I hear you about the direction of the offense, my only question\concern is that, we're "hoping" that just because these receivers CAN attack the whole field that they'll be able to "GET OPEN" and "CATCH" the ball while doing so. Parker and Stills CAN attack the whole field but how often were they able to actually get open?

And the patriots have a couple of future HOF'mers on their roster in Brady and Gronk, and a world class coaching staff. Brady often times throws players open when they have little separation. Gronk doesn't have to be open to reek havoc, and Bill B's offense seems to get players open by design where athletic ability is less of a necessity. We have none of that right now.

 

[claytonduper]

I agree that the narrative for Landry's departure has more to do with not committing more than a set amount (13 million which is quite respectable) for a slot type receiver. He may have lacked a little in the playbook, but that is mis-information.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

I'm not attacking anyone man. Not sure why you feel that way. I'm just a fan, evaluating my team and trying to evaluate and understand the moves being made and if I can expect better production on the field.

Yea I'm not buying the "Not Learning the Offense" narrative it just doesn't add up to me. How do you catch sooo many passes running the wrong routes? Why did the QB always seem to look for him if he was often running the wrong routes? And finally..... Why would they offer a guy who doesn't study the playbook and runs incorrect routes 13M a year on a multi year deal (if you believe that narrative).

Landry wasn't the reason he was the target of so many passes, I'm trying to understand what was? Coaches, other players lack of ability? Why??

Based on memory, Gase was too conservative in play-calling and called few deep balls - early in the season. That changed later. whether that was Moore/Cutler, the absence of JA, an attitude shift, whatever, I don't know. Another part is most teams throw significantly more short routes than others. Landry had little competition in that. I may be odd man out, but I think part of it was no one feared Landry. Look at it this way. NE throws a lot of short stuff. Many teams strategy against NE is 'give up the short stuff but make the tackle.' It's worse for Landry. There was only one of him and he doesn't have the quickness of the NE receivers. Landry was often the outlet. Not uncommon in a progression to make the short route guy the outlet. I'm certain there are other reasons.

The problem of wrong routes or not knowing routes, is just 3-4 of those a game can kill drives and cost points. Same is true of the stupid fouls Landry seemed addicted to. So, it becomes an algorithm - how many catches kept drives alive, how many bad routes cost drives, how many of the catches were Landry-dependent vs. route dependent? I don't know Miami's algorithm, but apparently Landry came out on the wrong end. Throw in his asking price and I'm confident the decision was he wasn't worth his asking price.

 

[Birdmond]

I think last season was more of Cutler desperately wanting to get rid of the ball and avoid contact. Previous seasons probably Parker being hurt all the time played into it. Either way I’m glad Landry is gone.

 

[bane]

Cutler was looking to avoid contact and Landry was part of our running game. That is why he got a lot of targets. When 17 is quarterbacking(I am a Tannehill backer) he too often takes the short safe pass instead of pushing the ball down the field. When Moore was qb during the playoff run he didn't focus on Landry as much because he liked to push the ball down the field. That is my opinion at least. I am kind of hoping this move forces 17 to take more chances down field. Though he was great throwing down field 2016. I just want to see it more often. Plus Landry was really good in the slot and was open. They knew he would be open quickly with our poor line.

 

[lurking]

What do you do with a sure handed slot receiver that can't run the right routes. Throw him at or around the line of scrimmage and hope he makes someone miss.

 

[BSQ]

Jtech, making a mistake, in Landry's case, could be about blocking the wrong guy, doing something pre snap to cause a penalty or many other examples. It doesn't have to be about route running at all.

 

[phinfan40353]

Here’s where I believe the offense is going. The receivers we have now should be able to attack the whole field, vertically and horizontally. If you look at the NFL now, most teams eschew a dominant threat for multiple weapons, or players you deem as “complimentary”. From the beginning, Gase stated a desire for the offense to be adaptable on a week to week basis, a la the Patriots. With the addition of a TE talent, this roster is now better able to do that.

Nail. Head.

The #1, #2, #3 designation of players by position/skill/role actually makes your offensive design very predictable. I go back to something Mike Martz said many years ago in The Greatest Show on Turfs' glory days. In a pregame show before STL/MIA, an analyst was asking Martz about the matchup between Ram's WRs (Holt, Bruce, Hakim, Proehl) and Miami's DBs (Madison, Surtain, etc).

Martz replied, Miami may have the better matchups on my #1 and #2, but I have the better matchup with #3 and #4.

When you design your offense on a Alpha WR1 (pay/skill/position) and complimentary role players, teams scheme to shut down the best player. Your WR1 will continue to get his numbers most days, but who it really hurts is your QB and complimentary players. The QB locks in on WR1 as the primary read most plays. Leading to forced throws by lesser QBs. Also, WR1 tends to become more of a diva and distraction due to their inherent importance to the team. I'm sure we all recognize this behavior.

When you approach your offensive design as having "swiss army" guys at WR, it actually devalues the D's "best CB". Because you really don't care who he is lined up on because all of your guys have equal ability. So, you free up your QB to make better reads and progressions because he is less concerned with his WR as much as he is the D's CB in any particular matchup. Instead of rolling a WR in motion to get a better matchup, he simply makes the assessment at the LOS based purely on initial matchup.

You can effectively take the best defender out of the play without taking your best playmaker out of the play. Because all are relatively equal.

Regardless of his ability and results, Philbin employed a similar strategy with RT. Philbin had a particular size/profile he liked all WRs to possess. He wanted taller WRs. This was one of the reasons Bess was traded and Brandon Gibson was acquired. They both worked the same area of the field, but Gibson was taller and gave RT higher windows to throw over the middle.

When given total freedom, RT likes to the spread the ball around and he is quite good at finding the right matchups. I've said several times we won't miss Landry's production. Drake's a better pass catcher and we've added enough weapons at WR with similar skill sets that the touches will still be on the stat sheet. Just redistributed.

 

[sleek]

Gase was making chicken salad.

 

[Chuck-182]

Right now, we have a team full of complementary offensive pieces, are there any other teams that have been or are currently successful with a team full of complementary offensive pieces?

How do you all see it?

That's how I see this offense now, just full of complimentary pieces. I mean, looking at it now, Kenyan Drake is probably our best player. And that frightens me.

Amendola was a complimentary receiver with Brady, so I'm not really sure why anyone would be excited about signing him. And I'm pretty suer we've seen all that we're gonna get outta Stills and Parker. Unless Grant, Carroo, or Wilson make big leaps (which is always possible), this offense could look just as bad next year.

 

[BigNastyFish]

I've said several times we won't miss Landry's production. Drake's a better pass catcher...

OK. Its amazing how we can lose our best, most productive draft pick since (who knows when) and it's like -- oh yea he won't be missed at all!

Really???

And you think Drake is a "better pass catcher" than Landry?