O-Linemen Drafted By Fins Since 1993 | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

O-Linemen Drafted By Fins Since 1993

Mike, where do you Coach? I'm going by results on the Football field. We have a super running back and we can't seem to get any push upfield or develope creases for him to get through like we did last season. The pass blocking in the Indy game was about as bad as it gets. That's my opinion, I'd like to hear yours. I have NO desire to argue with you and blended in with your post is an out and out attack laced with sarcasm. Your remark about assuming I have more Super Bowl rings than Coach Wise makes me wonder if your worth talking to or if you're some clown who gets off on being the smug, all knowing Football Coach on some level. I'm into an exchange of ideas and knowledge. If it's sarcastic banter you want, you're on your own. Another point I made was this thing about Coach Wannstedt bringing in all his "friends" to Coach for the Dolphins. Are you satisfied with the O-Line play? Educate us, you're the Coach. Is it the players fault or the Coaches? Does it really matter? To my way of thinking, if your job is to Coach the Offensive Line then the responsibility is yours. Of course the players are doing badly, that's apparent to everyone. This O-Line sucks. More productive is to explore what can be done about it. Do you think it's healthy to have all your buddies around you in key staff positions? I'd like to know what type of blocking scheme you see us using and what could we be doing differently to attain a better result. A healthy exchange of ideas and opinions would be enjoyable,O.K?
 
I think what Dolfanmike is saying (btw I don't know him, so I could be way off) is that its possible that lack of production could result despite a coach or players ability. In other words, Wise could be a good coach with bad players or a bad coach with good players and either way production would still be poor. While Wise would have ultimate reponsibility, that responsibility may involve pushing to get new players. If suitable players aren't available then he's stuck. In that case getting rid of a good coach would be a step back.

I don't know if this is the case. And that is Mike's point: as fans we don't know. I agree with Mike here. I am constantly amazed by how many posters know so little about football, know they lack knowledge and still post absolute statements about what should be done and how others with more info are wrong.
 
That's very true rafael because who knows where the buck really stops. Take the O-Line for example, Wise is the O-Line Coach but Norv is the Offensive Coordinator and Norvs' boss is Wannstedt. All I know for sure is that so far this year they are the weak spot of this team and it will be tough to beat any good teams with them playing so poorly. I don't really care about blame but I'd sure like to see them play better.
 
Ok..I'll do my best here

Originally posted by BSQX4
Mike, where do you Coach? I'm going by results on the Football field. We have a super running back and we can't seem to get any push upfield or develope creases for him to get through like we did last season. The pass blocking in the Indy game was about as bad as it gets. That's my opinion, I'd like to hear yours. I have NO desire to argue with you and blended in with your post is an out and out attack laced with sarcasm. Your remark about assuming I have more Super Bowl rings than Coach Wise makes me wonder if your worth talking to or if you're some clown who gets off on being the smug, all knowing Football Coach on some level. I'm into an exchange of ideas and knowledge. If it's sarcastic banter you want, you're on your own. Another point I made was this thing about Coach Wannstedt bringing in all his "friends" to Coach for the Dolphins. Are you satisfied with the O-Line play? Educate us, you're the Coach. Is it the players fault or the Coaches? Does it really matter? To my way of thinking, if your job is to Coach the Offensive Line then the responsibility is yours. Of course the players are doing badly, that's apparent to everyone. This O-Line sucks. More productive is to explore what can be done about it. Do you think it's healthy to have all your buddies around you in key staff positions? I'd like to know what type of blocking scheme you see us using and what could we be doing differently to attain a better result. A healthy exchange of ideas and opinions would be enjoyable,O.K?


I'll try to answer each part of your post by breaking it down.....that way I wont miss anything......


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Mike, where do you Coach?

D-Mike:
I'm currently in my 19th year coaching High School Football in So Cal

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I'm going by results on the Football field. We have a super running back and we can't seem to get any push upfield or develope creases for him to get through like we did last season.

D-Mike:
I agree, last season our OL played well. They seemed to be well prepared each week and didn't embarrass us like they are this year. However, the same coaches that were coaching us then are coaching us now. Did they get bad or dumb in one year?

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The pass blocking in the Indy game was about as bad as it gets. That's my opinion, I'd like to hear yours.

D-Mike:
I think the Blocking at Indy was horrible by everyone involved, from the OL to the TE to the RB's on most plays.

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I have NO desire to argue with you and blended in with your post is an out and out attack laced with sarcasm. Your remark about assuming I have more Super Bowl rings than Coach Wise makes me wonder if your worth talking to or if you're some clown who gets off on being the smug, all knowing Football Coach on some level. I'm into an exchange of ideas and knowledge. If it's sarcastic banter you want, you're on your own.

D-Mike:
My post was putting you in a place where you needed to back up your comments attacking our coaching staff. You put the blame for our poor play this season on our coaches (Wanny, Wise). I asked you some specific questions. I asked you to tell us specifically what you see the coaches doing wrong. I'm asking you seriously, how is it the coaches fault? Are they teaching poor technique? If so then it (technique) has changed since last year since we have both stated we thought last years OL did a good job, and this years is not. They did have the same coaches did they not? What do you see the coaches doing wrong?

As for sarcastic banter, it's tough not being sarcastic when I read people using terms like "braindead garbage" in reference to the coach of my favorite team. The same man who influenced people I learned defensive football under. I'm sorry, but you made some specific comments about how it was the coaching staffs fault we are playing poorly. I simply want to know how you draw that conclusion. The same men coached our OL last year. The same men have had a history of success at the highest level. The same men are paid Big bucks each year to have other coaches (High School, College, and Pro) come and listen to them teach us how to coach. What are our coaches doing wrong? I want to know.
How are you and I qualified to determine what the real problems are with the Dolphins OL with the limited time we have with them?
After all, I've been going to coaching clinics for 20 years, have coached HS for 19 years, Pop Warner for 4 years, and I am unable to point and say - Looky there...that is the problem! Does that mean it must be the coaches because I need someone to point my finger at! We appropriately call that "FINGER POINTING" in my line of work. It usually comes from the disgrutled parent that has a kid not playing, or the uninformed know-it-all's that always have an answer.
Anyhow, If you can't point out a specific shortcoming in the coaching, how is it the coaches fault? The Coaches are paid to coach. The PLAYERS are paid to PLAY. Which do you see a problem with when you watch the Dolphins? I see more of a problem of players playing when I see 5-6 dropped passes per game, 10-12 clearly missed blocks because the player is too high, 5-10 penalties per game, Ricky running with the ball held like a baby instead of how I know he knows he should be carrying the ball (Mackovic mentioned that fault at a clinic I attended when Ricky was a Longhorn under him). I'm not sure I could honestly say the coaches don't coach up those issues. It's just way too easy though to point a finger at the coaches.

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Another point I made was this thing about Coach Wannstedt bringing in all his "friends" to Coach for the Dolphins. Are you satisfied with the O-Line play? Educate us, you're the Coach. Is it the players fault or the Coaches? Does it really matter? To my way of thinking, if your job is to Coach the Offensive Line then the responsibility is yours. Of course the players are doing badly, that's apparent to everyone. This O-Line sucks. More productive is to explore what can be done about it. Do you think it's healthy to have all your buddies around you in key staff positions?

D-Mike:
Coaches almost always bring in their "friends" because they already know the scheme, they can be trusted, and he knows how they will react in situations. Yes, I think it's completely normal to hire friends. Especially friends like Tony Wise that is already one of the leagues higher regarded coaches. He really does have Super Bowl Rings, and really has shown over time that he can get it done. Take last season for example. Our OL played great. It's not like Wise forgot everything since last year. So where is the problem? Regardless of if he's a year better or a year worse, or has personel distractions, etc, it's clear that over time he's a fine coach. Look over the coaching staffs of the other NFL teams, you will see a trend to hire "friends". Look those same rosters over in regard to who is coaching there OL's, and you will see that Coach Wise is more qualified than 75% or more of the guys out there.

Every OL on our roster has a history of playing up and down. Ruddy always has, ....Wade, always has...up and down, .....Dixon, in and out, playing hurt, playing healthy, .....add a rookie, a journeyman, and a former weight watcher and you start to get the picture. 4 of 5 of our OL played well last year. This year they are not playing well. If you are going to put it on the coach and say "well he is the coach and he is ultimately responsible" for what goes on.....then lets ask ourselves what Wise should do that he hasnt. Ruddy was injured and allowed back in...was that a mistake? Dixon is hurt and on IR and We started a Rookie at LT, is that a mistake? What can Wise do to improve the Dolphins OL play? Should they cut someone to make an example of them? If so who? Should they demote someone? Who? What should Wise do that he isn't doing.
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I'd like to know what type of blocking scheme you see us using and what could we be doing differently to attain a better result.

D-Mike:
The Dolphins use just about every blocking scheme that is out there. They block base, they Reach block, they Fold block, they Trap, they Pull, they use Big on Big, and they use double teams. You name it they run it. As for how to improve, thats the point I've been trying to make. We arent around them enough to know what the problem is with the OL. We miss the meetings. We miss the practices. We miss the walkthroughs, We miss the private coaching each individual gets at that level. We miss 85% - 90% of everything that goes on. That is what the average fan doesn't get. You see about 10%-15% of the whole picture on gameday. There is no way for us to know what the issues really are. Maybe Wise is sucking up the place? Maybe our Players suck? Maybe the Defenses guess right all the time? There is no way for us to tell with the time we have with the team.
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A healthy exchange of ideas and opinions would be enjoyable,O.K?

D-Mike:
Fair enough. I'm all for that. But keep in mind using terms like "Brain Dead Garbage" and attacking the OL coach is also flaming the MIAMI DOLPHINS.....and I'm a DOLFAN. Too many fans think Ripping the coaches (with no specific's) is their right. No it isn't your right if you have no valid points and are just attacking them personally. It's the "I don't understand what's going on so I'll blame the coach" attitude. It's unfair to our coaches and players. Guys that want to cry that Wanny sucks want to say things like "he grabs his hair too much when the Fins choke", etc are just launching personel attacks and it's not appropriate. If you have something to say that is a rip on the players or staff have some substance behind it. Don't blame them just because you can't figure out what the problem is......because that is FINGER POINTING!
 
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Originally posted by BSQX4
That's very true rafael because who knows where the buck really stops. Take the O-Line for example, Wise is the O-Line Coach but Norv is the Offensive Coordinator and Norvs' boss is Wannstedt. All I know for sure is that so far this year they are the weak spot of this team and it will be tough to beat any good teams with them playing so poorly. I don't really care about blame but I'd sure like to see them play better.

Even though I agree we are not playing as well as we should, look at the scores of our losses.

Texans: 21-20 We didn't get dominated

Patriots: 19-13 (OT) We didn't play poorly all game

Indy: 23-17 Had game won after Buckley's INT

Are we really playing that poorly? How close are we to being unbeaten?
 
nice post, mike. what encourages me about this team is that they are not playing as well as they should. this leaves room for improvement. their best football is yet to be played, etc. i've seen the phins peak early too many times, and it encourages me that they have this many problems yet they've been in every game.
 
Originally posted by DPlus47
nice post, mike. what encourages me about this team is that they are not playing as well as they should. this leaves room for improvement. their best football is yet to be played, etc. i've seen the phins peak early too many times, and it encourages me that they have this many problems yet they've been in every game.

Good Point!
 
Originally posted by Da 'Fins

Another factor is coaching. Tony Wise is NOT a good OL coach! He's a Wannstedt crony - Dave never should have let Paul B. go. Or, they should have coaxed the Denver OL coach out of retirement a few years ago - pay him 500 grand to come back.

I'm curious as to how you know Wise is "NOT a good coach?"Have you ever played for him or do you know someone that was coached by him? Have you seen him teaching something that is bogus? Is there a technique that he is neglecting, or poor at?
The reason I ask is because the coaching community doesn't agree with you. Wise speaks at coaching clinics nationwide in the offseason and is always a popular speaker. He also has coached some of the best OL's in league history (Dallas), has a Super Bowl ring or two and is considered in the coaching world as one of the better OL guys in the league. So again I ask....how do you draw the conclusion that he is not a good coach? Or are you a FINGER POINTER that casts blame without understanding the situation?
 
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Originally posted by baracuda


And for those of you who were crying for them to cut Royals, consider looking at Turks stats versus Royals. We've actually regressed in the punter department. But you know that already didn't you?

What on earth are you talking about?
The positive difference in the punting game has been blatantly obvious since Turk got here and Royals was sent packing.
Don't know where you are coming from on that one.
 
This thread should be required reading for everyone. :)
 
Originally posted by Trekbiz


What on earth are you talking about?
The positive difference in the punting game has been blatantly obvious since Turk got here and Royals was sent packing.
Don't know where you are coming from on that one.

I agree. He's done a great job more than once of pinning down the opposition.....something Royals weas supposedto be good at, but never delivered.
 
Great post DOLFAN MIKE, You made a fan of me with your well thought out responses. I am a huge Dolphin fan and have been since day 1. I've gotten great pleasure out of watching this team and great frustration when it goes the other way. I was ther in '72 and '73 and also there when Shulas' career ended and when J.J. kind of disappointed and drove off in his Vette. I like Dave and have been in his corner. There's no question that he wants to win VERY badly and no question regarding his integrity and decency. It's mid-point and we're 5-3. That's very far from the end of the world. Wannstedt predicted that we would lead the league in rushing for the final 8 games. I think that's cool to challenge your running back and 0-Line. Rickey is on pace to gain1320 yards if he continues at the current rate. That's not as good as last year by quite a bit but the wheels aren't exactly coming off, are they? Kendall Newson has been signed off the practice squad. He'll be in on 3 reciever sets and might even return some punts and kickoffs. By the way he led NFL Europe in kickoff/ punt return average. Maybe he'll add a well needed spark to this offense. When I made negative remarks about the Coaches, as you suspected, they weren't well thought out critiques but we had just lost the Indy game and I was very upset, venting and looking for a place to assign bame. I still like Coach Westoff over Armstrong. This week is a tough game on the road but if Griese can have some time ti throw the Football I like our chances. Anyway, you have my respect for defending your fellow Coaches, I learned something and enjoyed the exchange. To me that's what Finheaven is all about, or at least should be. Go Fins
 
Originally posted by BSQX4
Great post DOLFAN MIKE, You made a fan of me with your well thought out responses. I am a huge Dolphin fan and have been since day 1. I've gotten great pleasure out of watching this team and great frustration when it goes the other way. I was ther in '72 and '73 and also there when Shulas' career ended and when J.J. kind of disappointed and drove off in his Vette. I like Dave and have been in his corner. There's no question that he wants to win VERY badly and no question regarding his integrity and decency. It's mid-point and we're 5-3. That's very far from the end of the world. Wannstedt predicted that we would lead the league in rushing for the final 8 games. I think that's cool to challenge your running back and 0-Line. Rickey is on pace to gain1320 yards if he continues at the current rate. That's not as good as last year by quite a bit but the wheels aren't exactly coming off, are they? Kendall Newson has been signed off the practice squad. He'll be in on 3 reciever sets and might even return some punts and kickoffs. By the way he led NFL Europe in kickoff/ punt return average. Maybe he'll add a well needed spark to this offense. When I made negative remarks about the Coaches, as you suspected, they weren't well thought out critiques but we had just lost the Indy game and I was very upset, venting and looking for a place to assign bame. I still like Coach Westoff over Armstrong. This week is a tough game on the road but if Griese can have some time ti throw the Football I like our chances. Anyway, you have my respect for defending your fellow Coaches, I learned something and enjoyed the exchange. To me that's what Finheaven is all about, or at least should be. Go Fins

I hear ya....I've been a Dolphins fan myself since the early 1970's Super Bowl loss to Dallas, which was the first Pro game I ever watched. We all get frutrated when we feel something is screwing our team! Hang in there, this team doesn't play like any Fins team we've seen in a while, so maybe they will have a great end of season. At this point although we're only 5-3 at least we haven't been blown out in a single game and really have had a chance to win every game.
 
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