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Offensive Line Play

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t47c

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I just read a couple post concerning our Offensive line. I don’t want to defend the play of the unit last year because it doesn’t deserve any quite frankly. I will say this; the line would have played better this year regardless of who was coaching them. You do not take 5 new starters, with only one being on the team the year before, and expect them to become a cohesive unit their first year. Look at the great lines from other teams and years past. The most common thing is the lines have been together for a couple years. I know Hudson Houck had 5 new starters in San Diego last year but how many were on the team the year before? He was coaching people already in his system. Great linemen usually are great for their line. How many times has a left tackle left his team for big bucks and didn’t play as well for his new team? It happens all the time. Now the second year they always seem to play better. Tony Wise made a statement last year during TC where he said “we will see how good the line will be in November†He backed off the statement the next day (probably due to pressure form the head coach) But I knew last year that the team was in trouble due to the line. Not because they are bad players, but you just can’t expect the players to come together that quickly. I think most would agree the line did play better in the second half of the year.

Now do I think Houck is a better coach than we had before??? OF COURSE but I think having the same players together for the whole year would be as important. Houck didn’t think we needed a wholesale changes so that tells me something.
 
Starting OLG Jeno Jamestold PFW that Houck’s teaching has instilled confidence in the players. “He has a zone scheme that I think is very good,†James said. “He also has a lot of history (guiding 11 linemen to 43 Pro Bowls), so it just feels good to have someone like that leading us.†James added that Houck’s system makes each player learn every position and promotes more awareness and cohesiveness. Word from the Dolphins’ June minicamp is that James, C Seth McKinney, ORG Rex Hadnot and ORT Stockar McDougle appear to have wrapped up starting spots.
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http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/default.htm?mode=afceast

I wonder what happened to St Clair?.He graded out as the best OL last year and I havnt heard his name mentioned once this year.
 
t47c said:
I just read a couple post concerning our Offensive line. I don’t want to defend the play of the unit last year because it doesn’t deserve any quite frankly. I will say this; the line would have played better this year regardless of who was coaching them. You do not take 5 new starters, with only one being on the team the year before, and expect them to become a cohesive unit their first year. Look at the great lines from other teams and years past. The most common thing is the lines have been together for a couple years. I know Hudson Houck had 5 new starters in San Diego last year but how many were on the team the year before? He was coaching people already in his system. Great linemen usually are great for their line. How many times has a left tackle left his team for big bucks and didn’t play as well for his new team? It happens all the time. Now the second year they always seem to play better. Tony Wise made a statement last year during TC where he said “we will see how good the line will be in November†He backed off the statement the next day (probably due to pressure form the head coach) But I knew last year that the team was in trouble due to the line. Not because they are bad players, but you just can’t expect the players to come together that quickly. I think most would agree the line did play better in the second half of the year.

Now do I think Houck is a better coach than we had before??? OF COURSE but I think having the same players together for the whole year would be as important. Houck didn’t think we needed a wholesale changes so that tells me something.
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Acutally, 3 of SD's O-Lineman last year were new to the team. They started 2 rookies and Roman Oben (Free Agent from Tampa Bay). So only two of the starters last year had played together the previous season. But i'm sure that more times than not, cohesion and having a couple of years next to one another will help any team or offensive line. The other problem with our team last year and many players have said it, is that Tony Wise didn't TEACH them anything and that he basically told them "Go Block so and so" and that was that.. The Players are raving about the coaches and the system and there are articles telling of positive improvement in certain players.. so at least up until now, so far so good.
 
fishfan34 said:
Acutally, 3 of SD's O-Lineman last year were new to the team. They started 2 rookies and Roman Oben (Free Agent from Tampa Bay). So only two of the starters last year had played together the previous season. But i'm sure that more times than not, cohesion and having a couple of years next to one another will help any team or offensive line. The other problem with our team last year and many players have said it, is that Tony Wise didn't TEACH them anything and that he basically told them "Go Block so and so" and that was that.. The Players are raving about the coaches and the system and there are articles telling of positive improvement in certain players.. so at least up until now, so far so good.
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I do really think Houck is a much improved line coach. Don't get me wrong i just think playing together on the offensive line is underrated and leads to much improved play.
 
fishfan34 said:
Acutally, 3 of SD's O-Lineman last year were new to the team. They started 2 rookies and Roman Oben (Free Agent from Tampa Bay). So only two of the starters last year had played together the previous season. But i'm sure that more times than not, cohesion and having a couple of years next to one another will help any team or offensive line. The other problem with our team last year and many players have said it, is that Tony Wise didn't TEACH them anything and that he basically told them "Go Block so and so" and that was that.. The Players are raving about the coaches and the system and there are articles telling of positive improvement in certain players.. so at least up until now, so far so good.
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Again, I don't want to take anything away from Houck. I think without a doubt, he is a GREAT improvement, for whatever reason over the last line coach and staff. I just think history shows Line cohesion is needed to have an effective line. That might be one reasons Houck didn't go out and get a bunch of new linemen??
 
Unfortunately you should have done some research before you posted your POV.
  • Nothing has been more constant in the NFL, particularly during the era of free agency, than lack of constancy. And over the past 12 seasons, a stretch defined by wholesale player movement and the salary cap, nowhere have the effects been more adversely profound than on the offensive line.
  • Based on the best projections available, only two franchises (Cincinnati and San Diego) figure to have the same starting line in 2005, with all five players in the same positions
  • The projections also indicate there will be 63 new offensive line starters in '05 – either newcomers to teams or holdovers playing at new positions, an average just shy of two per franchise.
  • In the last six years, no more than three offensive lines have returned intact from one season to the next.
  • The latest lineup projections show that 10 teams in 2005 will have at least three new offensive line starters each. Only 10 teams are projected to have fewer than two changes from their 2004 lineups.
  • The result has been a dropoff in offensive line play. Another result: Standout offensive line coaches, assistants who can adapt to change and who have demonstrated a knack for being able to cobble together solid starting quintets even in a revolving-door situation, have lately become hot commodities.
  • "Let's just say," Miami Dolphins first-year coach Nick Saban said, "that I was going to do just about anything I had to do to get (Houck) here. It's a (coaching) position where I always felt it was critical to have a really top guy. And the way the league is now, with the faces on your line changing so much, it's more important than ever." ESPN
  • "You're basically saying to (your offensive line coach) every summer in camp, 'OK, let's see you put Humpty Dumpty back together again.' Because of all the turnover, the churning almost every year on your line, that's what it's become," Haslet Saints
Credits go to ESPN.
 
thedayafter said:
Unfortunately you should have done some research before you posted your POV.
  • Nothing has been more constant in the NFL, particularly during the era of free agency, than lack of constancy. And over the past 12 seasons, a stretch defined by wholesale player movement and the salary cap, nowhere have the effects been more adversely profound than on the offensive line.
  • Based on the best projections available, only two franchises (Cincinnati and San Diego) figure to have the same starting line in 2005, with all five players in the same positions
  • The projections also indicate there will be 63 new offensive line starters in '05 – either newcomers to teams or holdovers playing at new positions, an average just shy of two per franchise.
  • In the last six years, no more than three offensive lines have returned intact from one season to the next.
  • The latest lineup projections show that 10 teams in 2005 will have at least three new offensive line starters each. Only 10 teams are projected to have fewer than two changes from their 2004 lineups.
  • The result has been a dropoff in offensive line play. Another result: Standout offensive line coaches, assistants who can adapt to change and who have demonstrated a knack for being able to cobble together solid starting quintets even in a revolving-door situation, have lately become hot commodities.
  • "Let's just say," Miami Dolphins first-year coach Nick Saban said, "that I was going to do just about anything I had to do to get (Houck) here. It's a (coaching) position where I always felt it was critical to have a really top guy. And the way the league is now, with the faces on your line changing so much, it's more important than ever." ESPN
  • "You're basically saying to (your offensive line coach) every summer in camp, 'OK, let's see you put Humpty Dumpty back together again.' Because of all the turnover, the churning almost every year on your line, that's what it's become," Haslet Saints
Credits go to ESPN.
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I agree with your statement.... BUT most lines are replacing 1 or 2 starters not 5!!! and if you noticed in the last couple years they are replacing these starters with lineman from their team. Guys that were on their roster last year. Not always but teams are trying to stock thier rosters with lineman they can develop not bring in every year!!
 
t47c said:
I agree with your statement.... BUT most lines are replacing 1 or 2 starters not 5!!! and if you noticed in the last couple years they are replacing these starters with lineman from their team. Guys that were on their roster last year. Not always but teams are trying to stock thier rosters with lineman they can develop not bring in every year!!
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  • We aren't replacing 5
  • Players come from FA, the draft and the roster. They aren't just guys from the roster moving up in most cases. That's why FA pay has increased for low skill positions like guard.
  • It takes 3 years at minimum in most cases to produce a solid consistant offensive lineman... there are exceptions. With the current movement in the NFL that's just about the time a guy goes to FA.
  • Back in day your POV held value.... Not in todays NFL.
 
then it would make more sense that this line would improve due to the same starters.......
 
thedayafter said:
  • We aren't replacing 5
  • Players come from FA, the draft and the roster. They aren't just guys from the roster moving up in most cases. That's why FA pay has increased for low skill positions like guard.
  • It takes 3 years at minimum in most cases to produce a solid consistant offensive lineman... there are exceptions. With the current movement in the NFL that's just about the time a guy goes to FA.
  • Back in day your POV held value.... Not in todays NFL.
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Last year we had FIVE new starters on the offensive line. I said last years team...
 
thedayafter said:
  • We aren't replacing 5
  • Players come from FA, the draft and the roster. They aren't just guys from the roster moving up in most cases. That's why FA pay has increased for low skill positions like guard.
  • It takes 3 years at minimum in most cases to produce a solid consistant offensive lineman... there are exceptions. With the current movement in the NFL that's just about the time a guy goes to FA.
  • Back in day your POV held value.... Not in todays NFL.
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it also points out that teams with replacements on their roster have a better chance of success on the O-line..case in point New england who lost 2 starters in 2004 replaced them with existing players and won again..
 
  • "I'd just as soon not talk about last year," Houck said. "That's somebody else. I really don't know what they were doing."
  • Pretty much sums it up.
 
thedayafter said:
  • "I'd just as soon not talk about last year," Houck said. "That's somebody else. I really don't know what they were doing."
  • Pretty much sums it up.
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LOL.. ok I agree.... bettter to forget last year....
point taken there!
 
t47c said:
it also points out that teams with replacements on their roster have a better chance of success on the O-line..case in point New england who lost 2 starters in 2004 replaced them with existing players and won again..
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  • The bottom line.... it places a premium on teaching and coaching.
  • That's why guys like Houck and Gibbs are getting big bucks $$$... as much or more than coordinators.
  • Teams with the best system to match their players and that have the ability "coach" those players up have the best opportunity for success.
  • Period.
 
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