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Offensive Line Thoughts After A Week Of Camp

The Goat

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Yesterday was a bloodbath at TC for the offensive line, and in the threads here. Without (hopefully) starting too many arguments or spats, I wanted to flesh out a few thoughts I had in my head.

1) Defensive Lines almost always gel faster than Offensive Lines. This doesn't mean that the DL is easy; it isn't. There's still communication required...but it's easier to read/react than properly run a ZBS.

2) Coach Flores values versatility among his linemen - I wouldn't get too caught up in who's taking snaps where this early in camp. Does Eichenberg playing guard mean he's incapable of playing left or right tackle? No, it does not. While the apparent Kindley demotion is disheartening, it doesn't mean he's finished or a failure, either. What I care about most is the apparent depth that's being assembled, and the unit that works best together being out there for Week 1.

3) Grier and Flores have spent a LOT of assets on the OL over the past two drafts. While I understand the dissatisfaction with the results thus far:
  • What do you want them to do, NOT try to fix it?
  • Flores and Grier drafted high-upside OL last year with (I believe) the thinking that 2020 would be more of a learning curve year. This year Eichenberg is more of a plug and play type. I loved the Eichenberg pick - while he might not have the ceiling of an Austin Jackson, he was considered one of the most NFL-ready OL prospects in the draft.
  • Yes, this offensive line has been awful for a long, long time. Yes, it looked horrible yesterday. No, Miami shouldn't just throw their hands up in the air and scream "GRIER CAN'T DRAFT OL! IT'S PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES TIME!" And I'll tell you what - it ISN'T just a talent issue. More on this in the next point.
4) Something that hasn't been discussed much is the OL coaching carousel and lack of continuity and quality OL coaching that's been going on in Miami for a long, long time. THIS is the part that frustrates the hell out of me.

Quick: Do you know the last time the Miami Dolphins had the same OL Coach for more than two seasons in a row? That was in 2011, with the Zombie Apocalypse OL coach Dave DeGuglielmo. He's been the OL coach under THREE completely different coaches/GMs, and hasn't fixed it once. I would certainly hope that his tenure is done here.

Here's your list of OL coaches since 2011:

2011: Dave DeGuglielmo
2012: Jim Turner
2013: Jim Turner
2014: John Benton
2015: John Benton
2016: Chris Foerster (insert .gif here)
2017: Dave DeGuglielmo
2018: Jeremiah Washburn
2019: Dave DeGuglielmo
2020: Steve Marshall
2021: Lemuel Jeanpierre

Now, I'm not going to pretend to know OL coaching better than anyone else, and I know Zone Blocking is more difficult than man blocking, but there have been multiple occasions under multiple OL coaches over the past few years when a lineman assigned to an area was simply walking forward and completely out of the play with his hands raised, blocking nobody. That's one of the more basic rules in a ZBS; don't chase air. Seeing that at the professional level, along with the OL's inability to handle simple stunts, is completely inexcusable...and that is 100% on coaching. If there's one specific thing to place blame on Grier/Flores for, it's their inability to get the right coach for the OL. This is their third try in three years; let's hope Coach Lem gets it right.

5) Last, but not least. it is tremendously easier to stop the run when you know it's coming, and Flores seems dead-set on stopping the run - that's one of the main reasons, imo, that McKinney is on this defense and Van Noy isn't. Regarding the run defense yesterday, they looked awesome, but they knew the run was coming. Whenever a PA pass was run, the receiver was wide open for a reason.

That's also one of the reasons that Miami didn't have a decent run game for almost all of Marino's career - he couldn't sell a run play vs a PA pass to save his life. But...that's a conversation for another day.

Fins Up.
 
I was a fan at eichenberg as a guard but not a tackle. Short arms, kinda stiff, bad hand placement, etc. When we traded a third to get him I thought it was a reach. A 2nd and a third for a guard is just too much IMO.

We needed a right tackle and Jenkins was sitting right there. I know his interviews were supposedly questionable, but the kid can play tackle, more specifically right tackle and at a high level.

I just cringe at thinking of Jesse Davis protecting Tua’s blindside for a year. I firmly believe With average protection and run blocking that Tua will lead us to the playoffs easily.

I also cringe at the lack of depth across the board. Who steps in a tackle? Who steps in at center?I know criticizing Grier and Flo is frowned upon here, but I really think they need a upgrade at the very least in whoever scouts offensive linemen.
 
I was a fan at eichenberg as a guard but not a tackle. Short arms, kinda stiff, bad hand placement, etc. When we traded a third to get him I thought it was a reach. A 2nd and a third for a guard is just too much IMO.

We needed a right tackle and Jenkins was sitting right there. I know his interviews were supposedly questionable, but the kid can play tackle, more specifically right tackle and at a high level.

I just cringe at thinking of Jesse Davis protecting Tua’s blindside for a year. I firmly believe With average protection and run blocking that Tua will lead us to the playoffs easily.

I also cringe at the lack of depth across the board. Who steps in a tackle? Who steps in at center?I know criticizing Grier and Flo is frowned upon here, but I really think they need a upgrade at the very least in whoever scouts offensive linemen.

I was a fan of Jenkins as well, but it's difficult to argue with the results Eichenberg had in college, and he tested as being a lot more athletic than scouts had anticipated. One of the concerns about Jenkins, if memory serves, was the back injury he had in college...and it's resurfaced again with the Bears.
 
it should be a bottom 3rd unit. Using draft capital on the offensive line only matters when you're picking great players and Grier is a buffoon who doesn't know how to draft. It's going to be a long and ugly season. All that speed at WR (if they ever stay healthy) won't matter when you have our line, no RBs and Tua at QB.
 
it should be a bottom 3rd unit. Using draft capital on the offensive line only matters when you're picking great players and Grier is a buffoon who doesn't know how to draft. It's going to be a long and ugly season. All that speed at WR (if they ever stay healthy) won't matter when you have our line, no RBs and Tua at QB.
Of the 32 teams I'm sure there's another one that can bring you some enjoyment.
 
It's a big question mark. Simple as that. Not one player among that starting group that you can feel great about.
 
If things go poorly this year then just use whatever cap we have on the best lineman on the FA market. It’s what the Chiefs did this off-season and I suspect it will work out for them.
 
I was a fan of Jenkins as well, but it's difficult to argue with the results Eichenberg had in college, and he tested as being a lot more athletic than scouts had anticipated. One of the concerns about Jenkins, if memory serves, was the back injury he had in college...and it's resurfaced again with the Bears.
Almost feel sorry for Jenkins, he's a talented kid. But his back is going to be an issue.
 
it should be a bottom 3rd unit. Using draft capital on the offensive line only matters when you're picking great players and Grier is a buffoon who doesn't know how to draft. It's going to be a long and ugly season. All that speed at WR (if they ever stay healthy) won't matter when you have our line, no RBs and Tua at QB.
Come back in 10 years. We’ll keep a spot open for you and Omar
 
Yesterday was a bloodbath at TC for the offensive line, and in the threads here. Without (hopefully) starting too many arguments or spats, I wanted to flesh out a few thoughts I had in my head.

1) Defensive Lines almost always gel faster than Offensive Lines. This doesn't mean that the DL is easy; it isn't. There's still communication required...but it's easier to read/react than properly run a ZBS.

2) Coach Flores values versatility among his linemen - I wouldn't get too caught up in who's taking snaps where this early in camp. Does Eichenberg playing guard mean he's incapable of playing left or right tackle? No, it does not. While the apparent Kindley demotion is disheartening, it doesn't mean he's finished or a failure, either. What I care about most is the apparent depth that's being assembled, and the unit that works best together being out there for Week 1.

3) Grier and Flores have spent a LOT of assets on the OL over the past two drafts. While I understand the dissatisfaction with the results thus far:
  • What do you want them to do, NOT try to fix it?
  • Flores and Grier drafted high-upside OL last year with (I believe) the thinking that 2020 would be more of a learning curve year. This year Eichenberg is more of a plug and play type. I loved the Eichenberg pick - while he might not have the ceiling of an Austin Jackson, he was considered one of the most NFL-ready OL prospects in the draft.
  • Yes, this offensive line has been awful for a long, long time. Yes, it looked horrible yesterday. No, Miami shouldn't just throw their hands up in the air and scream "GRIER CAN'T DRAFT OL! IT'S PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES TIME!" And I'll tell you what - it ISN'T just a talent issue. More on this in the next point.
4) Something that hasn't been discussed much is the OL coaching carousel and lack of continuity and quality OL coaching that's been going on in Miami for a long, long time. THIS is the part that frustrates the hell out of me.

Quick: Do you know the last time the Miami Dolphins had the same OL Coach for more than two seasons in a row? That was in 2011, with the Zombie Apocalypse OL coach Dave DeGuglielmo. He's been the OL coach under THREE completely different coaches/GMs, and hasn't fixed it once. I would certainly hope that his tenure is done here.

Here's your list of OL coaches since 2011:

2011: Dave DeGuglielmo
2012: Jim Turner
2013: Jim Turner
2014: John Benton
2015: John Benton
2016: Chris Foerster (insert .gif here)
2017: Dave DeGuglielmo
2018: Jeremiah Washburn
2019: Dave DeGuglielmo
2020: Steve Marshall
2021: Lemuel Jeanpierre

Now, I'm not going to pretend to know OL coaching better than anyone else, and I know Zone Blocking is more difficult than man blocking, but there have been multiple occasions under multiple OL coaches over the past few years when a lineman assigned to an area was simply walking forward and completely out of the play with his hands raised, blocking nobody. That's one of the more basic rules in a ZBS; don't chase air. Seeing that at the professional level, along with the OL's inability to handle simple stunts, is completely inexcusable...and that is 100% on coaching. If there's one specific thing to place blame on Grier/Flores for, it's their inability to get the right coach for the OL. This is their third try in three years; let's hope Coach Lem gets it right.

5) Last, but not least. it is tremendously easier to stop the run when you know it's coming, and Flores seems dead-set on stopping the run - that's one of the main reasons, imo, that McKinney is on this defense and Van Noy isn't. Regarding the run defense yesterday, they looked awesome, but they knew the run was coming. Whenever a PA pass was run, the receiver was wide open for a reason.

That's also one of the reasons that Miami didn't have a decent run game for almost all of Marino's career - he couldn't sell a run play vs a PA pass to save his life. But...that's a conversation for another day.

Fins Up.
Great post :cheers:
 
Yesterday was a bloodbath at TC for the offensive line, and in the threads here. Without (hopefully) starting too many arguments or spats, I wanted to flesh out a few thoughts I had in my head.

1) Defensive Lines almost always gel faster than Offensive Lines. This doesn't mean that the DL is easy; it isn't. There's still communication required...but it's easier to read/react than properly run a ZBS.

2) Coach Flores values versatility among his linemen - I wouldn't get too caught up in who's taking snaps where this early in camp. Does Eichenberg playing guard mean he's incapable of playing left or right tackle? No, it does not. While the apparent Kindley demotion is disheartening, it doesn't mean he's finished or a failure, either. What I care about most is the apparent depth that's being assembled, and the unit that works best together being out there for Week 1.

3) Grier and Flores have spent a LOT of assets on the OL over the past two drafts. While I understand the dissatisfaction with the results thus far:
  • What do you want them to do, NOT try to fix it?
  • Flores and Grier drafted high-upside OL last year with (I believe) the thinking that 2020 would be more of a learning curve year. This year Eichenberg is more of a plug and play type. I loved the Eichenberg pick - while he might not have the ceiling of an Austin Jackson, he was considered one of the most NFL-ready OL prospects in the draft.
  • Yes, this offensive line has been awful for a long, long time. Yes, it looked horrible yesterday. No, Miami shouldn't just throw their hands up in the air and scream "GRIER CAN'T DRAFT OL! IT'S PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES TIME!" And I'll tell you what - it ISN'T just a talent issue. More on this in the next point.
4) Something that hasn't been discussed much is the OL coaching carousel and lack of continuity and quality OL coaching that's been going on in Miami for a long, long time. THIS is the part that frustrates the hell out of me.

Quick: Do you know the last time the Miami Dolphins had the same OL Coach for more than two seasons in a row? That was in 2011, with the Zombie Apocalypse OL coach Dave DeGuglielmo. He's been the OL coach under THREE completely different coaches/GMs, and hasn't fixed it once. I would certainly hope that his tenure is done here.

Here's your list of OL coaches since 2011:

2011: Dave DeGuglielmo
2012: Jim Turner
2013: Jim Turner
2014: John Benton
2015: John Benton
2016: Chris Foerster (insert .gif here)
2017: Dave DeGuglielmo
2018: Jeremiah Washburn
2019: Dave DeGuglielmo
2020: Steve Marshall
2021: Lemuel Jeanpierre

Now, I'm not going to pretend to know OL coaching better than anyone else, and I know Zone Blocking is more difficult than man blocking, but there have been multiple occasions under multiple OL coaches over the past few years when a lineman assigned to an area was simply walking forward and completely out of the play with his hands raised, blocking nobody. That's one of the more basic rules in a ZBS; don't chase air. Seeing that at the professional level, along with the OL's inability to handle simple stunts, is completely inexcusable...and that is 100% on coaching. If there's one specific thing to place blame on Grier/Flores for, it's their inability to get the right coach for the OL. This is their third try in three years; let's hope Coach Lem gets it right.

5) Last, but not least. it is tremendously easier to stop the run when you know it's coming, and Flores seems dead-set on stopping the run - that's one of the main reasons, imo, that McKinney is on this defense and Van Noy isn't. Regarding the run defense yesterday, they looked awesome, but they knew the run was coming. Whenever a PA pass was run, the receiver was wide open for a reason.

That's also one of the reasons that Miami didn't have a decent run game for almost all of Marino's career - he couldn't sell a run play vs a PA pass to save his life. But...that's a conversation for another day.

Fins Up.
Nice write-up!!

Excuse my ignorance; I didn't know we were going to run a zone-blocking scheme. I know we mix things up a bit, but I thought our scheme was going to be primarily gap-power because we have more phone-booth guys. Is that what we ran last year? Not unusual, I know, but I am confused. LOL!
 
If the line consists of Jackson - Eich - Deiter/Skura - Hunt - Davis, I think we will be ok. Eich can play G for a year before shifting over to T. That way we don't have to trot Kindley out there (unless there is an injury) They will have their hiccups because it's a young line but I think if given the chance to start this year, Jesse Davis can be the veteran presence needed.
 
I generally agree, but I'd feel much better about Hunt at RT than Davis. Hunt looked pretty good at RT last year, and I think he could have future there if the Phins put him there and kept him there. I thought at draft time that Eich was a guard, and I still think that.

My biggest thing is this: We need to decide on a lineup we plan on keeping for the year soon, and let them start gelling. Moving Eich from LG to RT isn't ideal, so if you are going to do it, do it now. I'd also love to know what the plan is for LT if Jackson gets injured, because I don't think we have another LT on the team.
 
They keep trying to fix it, and it keeps failing... This is not something new, its been going on for 15 + years... This is absolutely not a prediction on what the OL will look like in 21... Its just starting to look like they're throwing **** at walls and hope something sticks with the OL position.
 
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