Just a while ago on NFL Network's 'Playbook' show, they were doing a run-through on all the teams and what their offseason goals should be. For Miami they said we needed a WR and back up QB. They also said we should try to hang on to Ogunleye because there are, quote: "a lot of teams willing to give up a 1st and 3rd for this guy" I don't know whether this is a good thing or not, I've kinda felt we should keep Ogun.But, Considering that we're 10 million dollars over cap, we should probably not put up a fight for him. It hurts though because he's one of the few good YOUNG players on our D. I wish it could be S. Madison that was a RFA....
Ogunleye
- Thread starter Lukin
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goochesdolphins
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Yea dude i agree wit ya maing
Cranx
☠️ Banned ☠️
It's hard to argue that. Ogunleye is an up and coming star in this league and there are no guarantees that there will be someone to even come close to filling his spot if he leaves. Despite what some of you think, defense still does win championships-- it just needs a competent offense to prop it up!
unclemonty
Dolphins, Buckeyes, MMA, and hot chicks
Re: Re: Ogunleye
I think between D Bowens, Grigsby, J Williams, and L Williams we would be just fine. OGUN is very impressive though. If we get Henson for a 2005 draft choice I say we might try and keep OGUN.
If we don't trade for Henson, we need more picks this year and OGUN is a goner.
I think between D Bowens, Grigsby, J Williams, and L Williams we would be just fine. OGUN is very impressive though. If we get Henson for a 2005 draft choice I say we might try and keep OGUN.
If we don't trade for Henson, we need more picks this year and OGUN is a goner.
Cranx
☠️ Banned ☠️
Re: Re: Re: Ogunleye
I'm not sure I totally agree or disagree with your assessment here. I guess we're just in a "wait and see" mode right now.
I'm not sure I totally agree or disagree with your assessment here. I guess we're just in a "wait and see" mode right now.
DrAstroZoom
Bon vivant
A backup QB? How about a starter? I've been a Fiedler hugger all along, but the fact is we seem headed toward a different starter.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I don't think we'll be "just fine" counting on guys like David Bowens, Jay Williams, and Grigsby to make the DL as dominant as it should be. Remember that Bates' defense is very D-Line driven. QBs have to feel pressure or else our man to man coverage doesn't hold up very well. We're a step slower in the secondary now that Marion is so old and Madison is losing his abilities...with Knight as our other safety.
People said we would be "just fine" with Lorenzo Brommell coming in to replace a departed Trace Armstrong. We weren't. Neither Mixon nor Brommell could get consistent pressure and Jason Taylor ended up with only 9 sacks. We got lucky that we stumbled on a guy of Ogunleye's caliber otherwise our D could have suffered for years. Back in 2001 though was when our secondary was in its PRIME. Surtain was still the league's best kept secret, Madison was playing in All-Pro form, Marion hadn't quite lost the step that he has now, and Brian Walker was still our safety and that boy could run a whole lot faster than Knight can. Even so, our turnovers suffered a lot...Surtain had 3, Madison had only 2, Walker only had 1, and Marion chipped in with his usual 5. Thats a far cry from 2000 when everyone in the secondary had AT LEAST 5 interceptions and Walker had like 7. If our turnovers suffered at least our coverage didn't as much. But now we've got a secondary that are, with the exception of Surtain, ALL a step slower, and they all are gamblers. You take away some of their passrush and all the sudden you'll see teams passing all over us.
This year I think JT had an off year you could see it at the beginning of the year. I mean over the first 10 games he had a total of 4 sacks. But Ogun was wrecking so wild on teams that it pulled JT out of his slump...over the last 6 games JT had 9 sacks as people started to take notice of Ogun's 10 sacks in 10 games. Even so, Ogun's production didn't drop off as teams entered a kind of pick your poison frenzy that resulted in just more pressure on the QB...Philly notwithstanding. If our D wasn't exactly at their best overall in the back half of the season, maybe this newfound pressure from both sides resulted in us not having as many defensive lapses in the 2nd half of the year as we are usually prone to having. I mean in 2002, down the stretch, we allowed Minnesota to keep a time of possession WAY better than our own, and we didn't get pressure on NE either and they also kind of had their way on offense time of possession-wise. This year, like I said philly game notwithstanding (MNF is just weird for us, always has been, always will be), and a horrible team performance against Tennessee notwithstanding, our D hung in there. I remember after we lost to New England 0-12, Len Pasquarelli or Pete Prisco I forget which one actually STOOD UP for us, saying that watch out because this doesn't look like your typical Dolphins team...he said I know people will be like "oh the dolphins lost in december again" but he said he watched that game and the Dolphins D hung in there tooth and nail every second of the NE game and its a far cry from what he's use to seeing of the Dolphins D in december when they "just give up"
Lose Ogunleye and it might be back to Dolphins D like usual, strong in september, nowhere in december. If thats the case, we had better make DAMN SURE that we're putting together a top 10 offense over on the other side of the ball, and just getting ourselves a Vernon Carey who may or may not make a difference as a Guard this year, won't do it.
Now if we used the extra picks to pry our way up to select Larry Fitzgerald while still getting Drew Henson for a 2005 2nd rounder, that would be something completely different...
People said we would be "just fine" with Lorenzo Brommell coming in to replace a departed Trace Armstrong. We weren't. Neither Mixon nor Brommell could get consistent pressure and Jason Taylor ended up with only 9 sacks. We got lucky that we stumbled on a guy of Ogunleye's caliber otherwise our D could have suffered for years. Back in 2001 though was when our secondary was in its PRIME. Surtain was still the league's best kept secret, Madison was playing in All-Pro form, Marion hadn't quite lost the step that he has now, and Brian Walker was still our safety and that boy could run a whole lot faster than Knight can. Even so, our turnovers suffered a lot...Surtain had 3, Madison had only 2, Walker only had 1, and Marion chipped in with his usual 5. Thats a far cry from 2000 when everyone in the secondary had AT LEAST 5 interceptions and Walker had like 7. If our turnovers suffered at least our coverage didn't as much. But now we've got a secondary that are, with the exception of Surtain, ALL a step slower, and they all are gamblers. You take away some of their passrush and all the sudden you'll see teams passing all over us.
This year I think JT had an off year you could see it at the beginning of the year. I mean over the first 10 games he had a total of 4 sacks. But Ogun was wrecking so wild on teams that it pulled JT out of his slump...over the last 6 games JT had 9 sacks as people started to take notice of Ogun's 10 sacks in 10 games. Even so, Ogun's production didn't drop off as teams entered a kind of pick your poison frenzy that resulted in just more pressure on the QB...Philly notwithstanding. If our D wasn't exactly at their best overall in the back half of the season, maybe this newfound pressure from both sides resulted in us not having as many defensive lapses in the 2nd half of the year as we are usually prone to having. I mean in 2002, down the stretch, we allowed Minnesota to keep a time of possession WAY better than our own, and we didn't get pressure on NE either and they also kind of had their way on offense time of possession-wise. This year, like I said philly game notwithstanding (MNF is just weird for us, always has been, always will be), and a horrible team performance against Tennessee notwithstanding, our D hung in there. I remember after we lost to New England 0-12, Len Pasquarelli or Pete Prisco I forget which one actually STOOD UP for us, saying that watch out because this doesn't look like your typical Dolphins team...he said I know people will be like "oh the dolphins lost in december again" but he said he watched that game and the Dolphins D hung in there tooth and nail every second of the NE game and its a far cry from what he's use to seeing of the Dolphins D in december when they "just give up"
Lose Ogunleye and it might be back to Dolphins D like usual, strong in september, nowhere in december. If thats the case, we had better make DAMN SURE that we're putting together a top 10 offense over on the other side of the ball, and just getting ourselves a Vernon Carey who may or may not make a difference as a Guard this year, won't do it.
Now if we used the extra picks to pry our way up to select Larry Fitzgerald while still getting Drew Henson for a 2005 2nd rounder, that would be something completely different...
unclemonty
Dolphins, Buckeyes, MMA, and hot chicks
David Bowens was said to be VERY SERIOUSLY CHALLENGING OGUN last year for the RDEnd. I think he was actually leading the battle before his injury. J Williams is a very solid veteran back-up.
L. Williams was wrecking havoc in NFLE. Grigsby showed a lot of promise in preseason.
The simple fact of the matter is
1. These guys are very solid
2. We CANNOT afford another big contract on defense. We have to spend some cash on the offense to end this cycle of two non- playoff seasons.
OGUN becomes the ODD man out because we can't afford him, we have solid depth here, AND it is a great draft to benefit from by losing him through RFA. We can get a solid QB, WR, or O-Lineman with the pick(s). It's a NO-BRAINER to me.
dolphan39
Maria & LauRen Aha!
I agree that we need OGun back and need to resign T buck and get Freeman back, etc.; but obviously putting 2/3 of our $$$ in our D has not worked the last 2 years and we need to reverse that trend as fast as possible right now. Having that said, I would still tender OGun at the max amt or maybe for 1st rd level and "live" with spending the 1.5 mil or so if noone bites, but we cannot sign him l-t unless we cut deep somewhere else
KATSKAN
Starter
Good Analysis ck, I'm pulling to keep Ogunleye here at all costs. Does anyone know how much he'll request - ball park figure? No way can we pay him $8 million JT money, but something has to be negotiable.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
If we can't afford another big contract on defense its because we have some guys on defense that are vastly overpaid (ie Madison, Thomas, and probably Seau the way his contract ended up I think). If that is the case, then THOSE are the situations we need to address, not Ogunleye because he's a guy that actually produces for his money.
And no, David Bowens was not seriously challenging Ogunleye for the start in offseason 2003. David Bowens was the leading candidate to start in 2002, before he got injured and opened the door for Ogun to step in especially after Ogun collected like 7 sacks or something ridiculous against the Buccaneers in our first preseason game.
Grigsby? Lamanzer Williams? Solid? Not quite. Neither has much if any game day experience...and there's a reason. Lamanzer did well in NFL Eu, but after all, thats NFL Europe, not the NFL. And the best we can expect out of David Bowens is for him to get injured watering his lawn or mailing a letter at the post office. He's never stayed healthy in his career even before he came to Miami. I once thought he could be real good, but after all the injuries, it would be the most idiotic thing this team could possibly do to actually COUNT on him...a lot like how in retrospect it was idiotic to COUNT on Mark Dixon to man the LT spot even though he's never stayed healthy.
And no, David Bowens was not seriously challenging Ogunleye for the start in offseason 2003. David Bowens was the leading candidate to start in 2002, before he got injured and opened the door for Ogun to step in especially after Ogun collected like 7 sacks or something ridiculous against the Buccaneers in our first preseason game.
Grigsby? Lamanzer Williams? Solid? Not quite. Neither has much if any game day experience...and there's a reason. Lamanzer did well in NFL Eu, but after all, thats NFL Europe, not the NFL. And the best we can expect out of David Bowens is for him to get injured watering his lawn or mailing a letter at the post office. He's never stayed healthy in his career even before he came to Miami. I once thought he could be real good, but after all the injuries, it would be the most idiotic thing this team could possibly do to actually COUNT on him...a lot like how in retrospect it was idiotic to COUNT on Mark Dixon to man the LT spot even though he's never stayed healthy.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Then again Dixon even with injuries throughout I dont think he ever missed like a full season before so I suppose the FO might have thought that even if Dixon comes out for a few games it would be the perfect opportunity to get Wade Smith into the game, see how he does against NFL DEs without too much pressure because its only a few games etc. So counting on D.Bowens to start and do well at LDE would be even more idiotic than counting on Mark Dixon to start a full year and do well at LT...cuz at least Dixon had done that before (in 2002).
finsnchips
2005 FinHeaven GM League Champion!!
Ogunleye's form this year wa amazing, but it means we will have another 1st round pick (at least, probably a third as well). We will be able to save cap space that can be put towards offence. Possibly encourage the production of youngsters - O. Grigsby and L. Williams. Them two guys should split time opposite JT.
unclemonty
Dolphins, Buckeyes, MMA, and hot chicks
No, it was in fact last year D-Bo was challenging as well. He just signed his new contract last season and I remember hearing he was very impressive looking and was looking to be the starter.
I'm not going to back and search for the articles to prove my point, so whatever, I don't care. You can if you'd like.Like I already said, there are a lot of reasons OGUN will be gone. Take it for what you want, but the bottom line is WE CANNOT AFFORD ANY MORE BIG MONEY ON DEFENSE. Stud defensive ends make too much money to keep ahold of two of them. The Rams will be going through the same thing with Wistrom this year. At least OGUN is a RFA and we will be compensated for his loss.