Ok, so **rationally**... where are we?

[sbh1602]

Ok, and perhaps it's hopeless in the main forum... but *rationally*, where are we after the draft/main part of FA?

**And by rationally, please don't fall into the "we sucked" or "I believe in the trifecta" nonsense. Back your thoughts with rational arguments, subjective opinions, whatever, but not dogmas of faith.**

Coming into this offseason, the consensus was that we needed:

- WR (at least a good possesion receiver to complement Ginn, in order to upgrade from Camarillo; Bess was good enough in the slot. At worst, to replace Ginn et al).
- LB (OLB as a priority given Porter's age and Roth's inconsistency, but ILB would be helpful too).
- NT (Ferguson is way too old, and Soliai and company "don't fit the mold")
- C/G (beats me, but that was the consensus).
- DB (CB mostly, but FS as well)

somewhat in that (reverse) order.

So far, I believe we've covered (by numbers, if not by upgrade):

WR, LB, C, CB, FS

Now... by quality? I have some opinions:

- WR: I believe the guys we picked up in the draft are more developmental than anything. Then again... so are Camarillo and Bess. So perhaps it's an open battle, best men win? I definitely don't think we have a solid #2 opposite Ginn, who is a bit of a question mark himself. Eh, we'll see.

- LB: Cameron Wake is the 'big' acquisition in this department, save from that late pick we took (6th rnd, IIRC). Perhaps this is me being skeptical, but I say we stood pat right here. Perhaps it was slim pickings, or higher confidence in the current guys than previously thought.

- C: I really, REALLY didn't like trading Grove for Satele (which was what we did, basically), but I suppose that he's an upgrade for his alleged nastiness. It's hard to judge talent when it comes from the miasma that is Oakland. And so far, it seems our guards are safe... predictably.

- CB: While Will Allen has proven himself a worthy starter, there are many holes in this group. We now have 3 new corners, two by draft and one by FA, and I trust one will come up as a decent counterpart to Allen. Hopefully two pan out, and we can forget a bit about this for a couple of years.

- FS: Gibril Wilson. No idea what this guy represents.

About our other picks, the most controversial is of course Pat White. I don't really know what the kid did in college, but everyone talks about him as the prototype 'QB' (as such) for the Wildcat formation. While I agree with the sentiment that the Wildcat is an area that has to be developed, I don't believe centering our offense around it is the way to go; after all, we used it very little last year (I don't have the numbers, but it's about 10% of total plays) and we were very succesful with our base offense, much better than with the Wildcat. So... I just don't understand the pick. Athletes that play football often fail (recently, that Jacksonville receiver comes to mind), so it has a high probability of busting. But we'll see, I suppose.

That's about it. What do you think?

 

[FuturePhin]

I think with everything that has gone on were a top 10 team, and if we sign JT...I say 7 to 9 range. Who knows I might be understating them.

 

[finz99]

Overall, I feel like we have done very well this offseason. I like the trade for Grove, and if he can stay healthy, he'll be a better fit for this offense then Satele. I believe in Cam Wake, he has the talent to be a pro bowler for a long time, and with Joey Porter mentoring him, he can only get better. We severely upgraded our DB's in Vontae (who I believe will be a stud), Sean Smith, and Gibril Wilson. This kind of takes Jason Allen out of the spotlight, and maybe that'll let him come up and suprise some people (although I highly doubt it). QB/RB/OL we are set. There's only two question marks I have coming into this season...and that is NT and WR. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the back-up NT position, because we all know that there needs to be someone to give Jason Ferguson a breather. And on the wide reciever front we have a bunch of solid players, but no one that stands out as a number one as of now. It'll be an interesting battle this training camp, but hopefully someone can show what they're made of.

I predict we will surprise some people and contend for the AFC East title again (even though we won it last year...so it shouldn't be too much of a suprise, but it seems like most people are eyeing the Bills or Pats to win it this year.). We have a tough schedule, but I think we have the talent and teamwork to make it out of those rough patches with a win.

But all I can guarantee is that i'll be at the Dolphins vs. Chargers game cheering on the fins!

 

[3rdandinches]

JT almost seems to be a must, we have no idea how Wake will turnout and there's no real depth there anyways.

Only if V.Davis can start right away and be decent are we equal to last year at CB. If he excells right away (which doesn't happen often for CB's) then it's a serious upgrade.

G.Wilson = huge upgrade

Thomas and Smiley back healthy = huge boost to the run offense

Groves over Satele has to be a upgrade or why on earth would a head coach that is a Oline coach make this move?

WR's are still just a good core, X-factor is Ginn finding a groove in his 3rd year and becoming more of a threat every time he touches the ball.

P.White needs to have an impact atleast a couple times a game or I see zero value in this kid outside of being our 3rd QB. If Pat can make some big plays then our offense is better off and our defense is better off it results in more points per game.

I think the biggest question mark is still our pass rush, even if we sign JT what does he have left in the tank? We struggled against teams when we didn't get to the QB and since this was never really addressed I fear this could hold us back from being as successfull as we could be this year.

 

[MD]

I think the only area where we see no upgrade is NT. Although we have a slew of more WR's, I am not sure it can be called an upgrade. For me an upgrade will be finding a true #1. Ginn does not fit that role. Hopefully we find that #1 and Ginn develops in to a #2. I have a suspicion that we are not done seeing movement in the WR corps. The OL appears set. With the addition of Wilson and the resigning of Bell if Davis and Smith pan out the secondary will be good for many years.

As far as White, if he is on the field for 2 big play's each game (big plays resulting in TD's) that is 14 points and I'll take that from a second rounder any day.

 

[Spiff]

I think the only area where we see no upgrade is NT. Although we have a slew of more WR's, I am not sure it can be called an upgrade. For me an upgrade will be finding a true #1. Ginn does not fit that role. Hopefully we find that #1 and Ginn develops in to a #2. I have a suspicion that we are not done seeing movement in the WR corps. The OL appears set. With the addition of Wilson and the resigning of Bell if Davis and Smith pan out the secondary will be good for many years.

As far as White, if he is on the field for 2 big play's each game (big plays resulting in TD's) that is 14 points and I'll take that from a second rounder any day.

I don't think we necessarily need a "true #1 receiver". If either Turner or Hartlin are solid this season, we should have a very very potent offense:

Ginn is the deep man, Turner/Hatlin the big one(s), Bess in the slot, not to forget about Camarillo, and we have Fasano and Martin as big targets as well. Now we still have Brown/Williams/White as potential pass catchers and I don't see how we shouldn't have a good passing game.

Adding to that, think about the endless possibilities of involving Brown and White in the PASSING (not receiving) game. I think, if the coaches find a way to use all of them, we are able to score lots of points even without a "true #1 receiver".

This list doesn't even include Cobbs nor our prospects like Haynos, Nalbone and London. Now, if only half of the people mentioned here have solid seasons, that's offensive firepower.

 

[PhinFan0202]

In my opinion i think that we got alot more talented over the weekend. Seriously, when was the last time we had the youth on either defense or offense that we have now? I really like the Turner pick because he's by far one of the most underated players within the draft. He was starting for a perrenial power house in USC that churns out tons of talen every year. He actually reminds of Vincent Jackson from the Chargers, a guy that just gets open. Hartline i didn't really know about until i saw the highlights of him but that dude makes alot of plays and also player for a power house in Ohio State. He can return punts, be the gunner on Special Teams and he can chip in at WR. Pat White was kind of a surprise for as high as he went but he's was a game changer in college, the guy can play ball.

 

[sbh1602]

In my opinion i think that we got alot more talented over the weekend. Seriously, when was the last time we had the youth on either defense or offense that we have now? I really like the Turner pick because he's by far one of the most underated players within the draft. He was starting for a perrenial power house in USC that churns out tons of talen every year. He actually reminds of Vincent Jackson from the Chargers, a guy that just gets open. Hartline i didn't really know about until i saw the highlights of him but that dude makes alot of plays and also player for a power house in Ohio State. He can return punts, be the gunner on Special Teams and he can chip in at WR. Pat White was kind of a surprise for as high as he went but he's was a game changer in college, the guy can play ball.

Three years ago with Saban. That guy gutted everything. Oh, and two years ago with Cameron. Yup, another "cleansing". You tend to get young with rebuilds.

My concern about the WR position is that we currently have a bunch of #2, #3 players... and no #1. That's just fine when you're going from the pits to decent, but you have to present opposing defenses with a talented #1 if you want to consistently succeed (though it's tricky - see the end). Maybe they believe Ginn will grow into this role; perhaps this is the plan for White. Either way it's probably going to be a long time grooming...

About the receivers picked, does anyone know how well do they run routes? What kind of offenses did the play in? Do they have technique down pat, or just athleticism? I believe one of them is a really tall guy (6'5''), but does he have the strength to go with that frame? Otherwise he needs a year or two to grow into it.

And yet, this is an area of somewhat minimal concern to me... Our passing game was based on quick slants and TEs up the seam, and this seems to work fine with our current group. At least for a while.

 

[JFoxx]

We definately improved from last years team. We've upgraded at several spots via F/A, trades, pick-ups and draft. I still think we will add a few more players via pick-ups or F/A now that the draft is over and we see what we have/don't have in the mini-camps. Probably 1-2 of those will be potential gamers for us. Now with all that said, even though we are better, we face a MUCH tougher schedule this year, so I'm not so sure we'll be matching last year's record (but there's hope). If we don't some will say it's because we didn't add this or that person. But don't buy the hype. We improved and will again next year and will be SB contenders within the next 2-3 years.