Omar suggests Roberto Wallace could be next Miles Austin | Page 2 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Omar suggests Roberto Wallace could be next Miles Austin

The big criticism that Hard Knocks revealed was his movement and ability to create separation.

In light of that...I'm not sure his Buccaneers outing was as impressive as I initially thought. Some of those plays were better throws than routes, and weren't really indicative of his ability to create separation. Take the pretty play that Tannehill threw over the flat corner to the perimeter. That wasn't a keen route or separation. That was a great throw with great timing to the hole between zones. Take the would-be touchdown as another example. Wallace created no separation really, but Wallace is huge and tough to come through so Tannahill threw the ball low to the ground, where Wallace would have a shot at catching it but the corner wouldn't...and in the end Wallace couldn't hang on. Even if he hung on that's a better throw and decision than route or catch.

His other plays involved two slants and a curl. One of the slants the corner clearly gave up the separation by staying home in his zone, and the linebacker Hayward was late to come over to rob the passing lane. He ran the curl well, but even on that play the separation was purely zone related.

The first slant he caught, the best part about it wasn't separation but what he was able to do after the catch, breaking a tackle. I don't remember if he created separation himself in that situation or if it was the zone that gave him the separation.

I watched the other routes and there was very little separation unless it was given up by the corner in his zone coverage. The corner passed him off to the next zone. The one instance where I saw him create real separation was one where he used his hands really well to disengage.

This could be something to keep an eye on.


I really appreciate the analysis both you and TedSlimm provide at times. You guys have a knack, and I have to tip my cap to you on that. I'd love to hear either of your thoughts player by player of the guys we have in camp at WR this year, and who you think will shake out on top. To be frank, it's better reading then the stuff we get from the journalists.
 
The big criticism that Hard Knocks revealed was his movement and ability to create separation.

In light of that...I'm not sure his Buccaneers outing was as impressive as I initially thought. Some of those plays were better throws than routes, and weren't really indicative of his ability to create separation. Take the pretty play that Tannehill threw over the flat corner to the perimeter. That wasn't a keen route or separation. That was a great throw with great timing to the hole between zones. Take the would-be touchdown as another example. Wallace created no separation really, but Wallace is huge and tough to come through so Tannahill threw the ball low to the ground, where Wallace would have a shot at catching it but the corner wouldn't...and in the end Wallace couldn't hang on. Even if he hung on that's a better throw and decision than route or catch.

His other plays involved two slants and a curl. One of the slants the corner clearly gave up the separation by staying home in his zone, and the linebacker Hayward was late to come over to rob the passing lane. He ran the curl well, but even on that play the separation was purely zone related.

The first slant he caught, the best part about it wasn't separation but what he was able to do after the catch, breaking a tackle. I don't remember if he created separation himself in that situation or if it was the zone that gave him the separation.

I watched the other routes and there was very little separation unless it was given up by the corner in his zone coverage. The corner passed him off to the next zone. The one instance where I saw him create real separation was one where he used his hands really well to disengage.

This could be something to keep an eye on.

that's what i saw also...more doing work against zone looks...what i see when he's manned up and guys are riding him down the field is he doesn't use his hands enough to create separation...bingo...most of that stuff on hard knocks where the db was in his hip and using an arm to keep wallace at bay i was screaming at the tv "use your damn hands son!!!!" instead he just let them ride him right down the field...this kid too big too strong to play a finesse game and he doesn't have elite burst out of cuts or great hips to not use his strength and strength in his hands to his advantage...he should be chucking dbs all over the place down the field...chop those guys hands down give subtle pushes and nudges when the balls in the air...don't play a soft game
 
Brandon Marshall and Earnest Wilford?

Brandon Marshall has proven to be an elite NFL talent.

Ernest Wilford was pretty solid for a few season in the NFL.

Roberto Wallace....... has accomplished about as much in the NFL as Omar has. Yet, Omar makes it sound like Wallace is Wilford on his bad days. GET REAL. I think we would all be very pleased if this guy would string together a couple of seasons for us like Wilford had in Jacksonville.

Can we all stop listening to Omar's nonsense? Why even post his stuff? Its all total nonsense. Its like he dosent have enough blood running through his brain when he writes this stuff because some of it is pumping other areas of his body while he is looking at David Garrard.

Can anyone teach me how to tweet? I hear this guy debates with people on tweeter. I have no idea how to use tweeter. I have some things this clown needs to read about his man David Garrard.


This might just be your best post ever! My secretary asked me "What's so funny?" when I busted out lauging after reading it.
 
Both Wallace and Marlon Moore are perplexing to me. That both always look good in camp and the preseason then dissappear , other that Moore's TD at Oakland and some special team, when the season starts.
Both have the physical skills but something has not clicked yet.
The problem this year is several rookies and free agents nipping at their heals.
The third year is put up or shut up time. No more excuses.
 
This might just be your best post ever! My secretary asked me "What's so funny?" when I busted out lauging after reading it.

Thanks bro. I was wondering if anyone would catch that. I thought it was funny. Glad I could make someone laugh and brighten their day.
 
I really appreciate the analysis both you and TedSlimm provide at times. You guys have a knack, and I have to tip my cap to you on that. I'd love to hear either of your thoughts player by player of the guys we have in camp at WR this year, and who you think will shake out on top. To be frank, it's better reading then the stuff we get from the journalists.

Brian Hartline - I think he's a lot better than people give him credit for. Very smart, sudden, agile, creates separation, runs his routes, and showed himself last year capable of HIGHLY DIFFICULT sideline catches and toe touches. Also catches the low ball. A lot of the incompletes his direction were bad throws or bad timing. An underrated aspect of his game is his ability to play all three posiitons, even the slot. It's really too bad he got hurt and hasn't participated yet but when he does get back in he will be a boost to this receivers unit. What he doesn't do so well is play with strength after and during the catch. He's more the guy that draws pass interference by flopping a little bit, when you get into physical situations. Underrated long speed. A hurdles champion as a track and fielder. I don't care if the 40 time says only 4.52 or 4.50, he's tall with a lanky build and gets up the field pretty quickly. Brandon Marshall couldn't beat him in a foot race.

Davone Bess - I think on this one TedSlimmJr said it very well once, and very succinctly...he's the Channing Crowder of the offense. He's a good player, maximizes his physical talent, but in the end you want to do better. The problem is you're always plugging other bigger holes and so he remains. The efficiency of his steps are probably the biggest aspect of his game and that will make him an option route guy from the slot in this offense. Ryan Tannehill will lean on him if he ends up the starting quarterback. Bess once caught 5 touchdowns in 2010 and Slimm bet me that he'll never equal that mark again in his career. I'm an odds guy, so I took the bet, not even because I really disagree with him on Bess (as I said, Slimm said it best, he's the Channing Crowder of the offense). I think my best chance to win that bet will be this year as option routes from the slot will be big in the red zone and they will look to lean on Bess there.

Legedu Naanee - Physically he's a specimen as he came out about 6'2" and 220+ lbs, ran in the low 4.4 range at the Combine. He was a former quarterback as I recall, as he came to Boise State. They had a difficult time figuring out what to do with him and experimented with him at some H-Back and slot type positions...sort of like what you see us doing with Chris Hogan now. Smart guy, definitely finds a way to rise to the top in practices. Can find the holes between the zones. He found his way to the top of the Panthers depth chart for a reason. He practices well. My big question with him is can he perform in the games? Despite the practice hype, in the game he caught 1 ball for 12 yards. Maybe that's unfair, purely a function of playing time. Maybe. But I can't get the taste out of my mouth of what I saw in Carolina when I watched him extensively...which was the poster child for the definition of "just a guy". He created almost nothing in Carolina. Everything he got was given to him. He ran the routes for the most part like you draw it up but any separation was given to him in zones, and any run after catch was also given to him by the zones and by the quarterback, and he went down at first contact pretty consistently. He had some bad drops, some of which even led to interceptions. He also made a challenging catch or two off the tip drill so give him credit for that. I never saw him get open deep, ever. Really if you want to know all about him, go onto YouTube and look up some Cam Newton highlight videos. Find and watch as many as you can with as many passing highlights of Cam as you can find. From those highlights filled with big plays, you wouldn't even know there was a player on the Carolina Panthers named Legedu Naanee. Yet, he was actually on the field for 78% of all pass plays in Carolina. He was there, just not making any plays. Could he have gotten better with us? Absolutely. Not denying the possibility. But it leaves me skeptical nonetheless.

Julius Pruitt - Right now I believe this is Miami's fourth wide receiver and Davone Bess' direct backup in the slot. Coming out of Ouachita Baptist, he was 6'2" and 206 lbs, and ran a 4.40 at his Pro Day. He had decent, not great jump and agility measurements, so I don't really think he's a 4.40 guy on the football field. But this is a guy that has had a big backing internally within the Dolphins' front office for a while. They keep bringing him up. Because of that it's probably not that surprising that he's surfacing. I'm not going to claim to have seen many Ouachita Baptist games. But from what I have seen of him in the preseason he looks like your typical slot receiver except bigger. He shows the ability to run the routes right and take advantage of the three-way go that you typically have on the inside, which is why slot guys get open more easily. One plus thing he just showed in this Bucs game was that back shoulder catch he made on a superlative throw from Ryan Tannehill. If he can do that consistently then you can play for me. But I'm not sure he can. The way he played the ball looked a little sloppy, not as controlled as you would want. It left me wondering if it's the kind of play he can reproduce. The other plus thing he showed though was on that screen play to the outside. He really did a good job of running with the football in his hands, had good acceleration, instincts and body language. But is he going to be able to do anything in physical situations after the catch? That's my big question. Can he play on the outside at all? Those are open questions about him. It should be noted that Darren Rizzi referred to him as the best gunner on special teams that he's ever coached.

Roberto Wallace - Based on playing time at the Buccaneers game, I believe he is the fifth receiver. Being a big guy (6'4" and 223 lbs) who had a reputation as being raw (was never a starter even at San Diego State), you knew that running routes was probably always his problem. Let's keep in mind where the ceiling is that Brian Gaine referred to in his private chat with Roberto on Hard Knocks. This is a huge guy that ran a 4.48 at his pro day, with the jump and agility measures tha matched the 40 time, so in addition to being big and fast he's agile and explosive. The things I liked in the Buccaneers game were his ability to find the soft spots in zone coverage and the one slant he caught from Matt Moore where he was able to use his size and strength to break a tackle attempt and run for a big 20+ yard gain. If he can do that consistently that would be huge in this pass offense, because the slant is a big part of the pass offense. The quarterbacks can opt into the slant at just about any time based on what they see in the coverage. However what I think Hard Knocks brought up is, even if he's running his routes right, he's not creating separation. He's not sudden enough, feet aren't quick enough, too deliberate in his movements. The separation isn't there. The routes aren't necessarily being run terribly but the separation isn't there against man coverage. I want to see him get open on the slant against man, and see what he does in that situation. The Buccaneers played a lot of zone and the corner was disengaging from him to stay in his zone, which created the illusion of separation when all that was really happening was the QBs were finding him in the soft spots between zones...better throws than routes. I'm thinking he needs to learn to be more brutal with his hands in man, don't be afraid to use that body and that strength to push off or create separation without getting flagged for it. The bottom line also is that if he's not going to be able to separate that much he has to be great with the ball in the air. It would have worked heavily in his favor if he caught that touchdown against the Bucs...but he didn't.

Marlon Moore - Again based on preseason playing time, I think Moore is the sixth guy at the moment. The main thing Moore has going in his favor I think is that he's fast and quick. On paper he looks like he's got the same speed and quickness as Wallace but I think on the field he's much quicker. He's got good size at 6'0" and 190 lbs or so. Not physical though and he disappears a little too much. I don't see him as a game performer. I don't expect him to actually make the roster.

Clyde Gates - The frustrating thing about Gates is that he's been battling hamstring problems this training camp and can't consistently stay on the field. It could very well lead to his dismissal. I watched all of his 2011 from Week 1 to Week 17, on All-22 tape. The player I saw in Week 1 getting shut down in man by rookie Ras-I Dowling was the same player I saw in Week 3 getting shut down in man by rookie Buster Skrine, but not the same man I saw in Week 17 giving veterans Antonio Cromartie and Darrelle Revis a tough time in coverage. No he did not catch anything in Week 17, because he had not earned the trust of the Dolphins' quarterbacks. That doesn't mean he wasn't getting open. He played quicker and more confidently as the year went on. Other guys like Julius Pruitt, Legedu Naanee, Brian Hartline, Roberto Wallace and Marlon Moore have speed. But theirs is a common speed. Everyone they face has similar speed as them, with the possible exception of Pruitt since he works from the slot and therefore faces some linebackers and safeties at times. The point is, none should ever really expect a speed advantage. Clyde Gates has a TRUE speed advantage, which is rare in this league. He's got the quickness to match. You could see it in the preseason of 2011. Just try and play him NORMALLY and he will get over top of you. It's that simple. If the quarterback can hit him (which often Henne and sometimes even Moore could not) then it's a big play, like the one he created against the Cowboys in the 4th preseason game. But that speed ends up scaring the defense. It's no surprise a few plays after that big 50 yard play against the Cowboys, Jeron Mastrud waltzed into the end zone untouched on an underneath catch because the safety essentially came over top of Gates at the snap, worried about his speed. Similarly against Carolina a year ago, Gates beats the pants off a corner (Henne missed him) and then for a number of plays you've got guys like Davone Bess and Brian Hartline matched up in single coverage underneath as Gates clears two people down the field. Heck, Hartline was matched up single on a linebacker because of the attention Gates had to get after getting behind the defense so easily. This is the value his speed presents. A defense has to walk a very narrow path to avoid either playing too far off and allowing him to catch underneath stop routes and whatnot, playing too tight and therefore letting him get open deep, and over-playing him in coverage which results in other guys having big matchup advantages. I say don't sleep on Gates. If he gets his hamstring healthy and is able to contribute prior to the last preseason game, you could find him miraculously making a jump from 11th out of 11 on the depth chart, to making the roster.

Jeff Fuller - I go back and forth on Jeff Fuller. As a Ryan Tannehill fan coming out of Texas A&M, it is hard to forgive Fuller for all the passes he dropped there. Tannehill ended up looking a lot worse than he should have due to lapses in concentration by Fuller. It was not just the drops, either. He also played some routes pretty lax, falling down on some, and one such fall down created an interception. Some of his drops did as well. He's not really fast, either. But he's big, very strong and pretty agile for that size. He can run all the routes you want in this passing offense, including ones with some pretty intricate steps. But in the Bucs game what you need him to do in order to make a run at a roster spot, is play the ball on that final fade pass, and come down with it. That's supposed to be his strength and if your strength isn't there for you then you lose. You get the sense from the practice reports that he is falling off the map. I figured him in as one of three UDFAs most likely to make the roster, because of his familiarity with the offense and the simple fact that if every wide receiver out there is going to be dropping footballs left and right anyway, then suddenly Jeff Fuller's weakness has been equalized and at that point you might as well keep the big, strong, explosive red zone threat.

Chris Hogan - This was the one guy you never ever heard about until Jimmy Wilson "outed" him on The Finsiders as the guy that gave he and other DBs the most trouble. He is a physical phenom. His trainer says he and Brian Cushing are right with each other as the best athletes he's ever trained. He can run somewhere in the high 4.4's to low 4.5's, but has more quickness and explosiveness than his speed would indicate. The real game changer for him is his strength, though. At 6'1" and 221 lbs, coming out of Monmouth there were those who thought he should be a fullback. That's how strong he was. He played DB and WR at Monmouth and has played DB and WR with Miami. His 28 bench reps showed that he's very, very strong...but I think if you run the whole gambit with him on the gym floor you'd see that figure probably doesn't fully detail how strong he is. When you have a guy that strong and that quick to where he can be "always open" then you have an intriguing football player, especially since I've also heard it noted that he has good hands. Put him with the right quarterback and you have the potential for big plays from the slot. Slot receivers are just about a dime a dozen nowadays. You can find them. Davone Bess was undrafted. What is rare is a guy that can provide you with big plays from the slot. I'm thinking that Hogan's combination of strength and size to go along with quickness and consistency in getting open from the slot, could produce some big plays. But you have to see him performing with the right quarterbacks before you can get a handle on whether he can do that. You need to see him with the ball in his hands more. Until then it's impossible to know.

B.J. Cunningham - Based on how the rotations went in the preseason game, Cunningham may be ahead of Rishard Matthews as a wide receiver, but still pretty far down the depth chart to where his chances of making the team are minimal. My criticisms of B.J. coming out were centered on the fact that he's not very fast, explosive or especially strong. He caught some balls during the game but he did little to make me forget the criticism. He's always been good on the slant, always been good on the drag, those in-breaking routes. He has an unusually quiet eyes as he runs through catches, very smooth upper body movement and it allows him to focus on the football and pull it in while in stride. He's also a pretty smart player and can adjust on the ball in the air and get chemistry with a quarterback. His hands are OK but nothing special. His run after catch in college seemed purely related to his superior size, and I question his ability to run after the catch at this level as the corners are stronger and bigger. His size "advantage" at 6'1" and 211 lbs has all but disappeared at this level. He doesn't have the strength to do things after the catch, nor does he have the leg strength to make really sharp cuts on his routes. I thought he showed that in the Bucs game as he tried to run in and out and the cut was too sharp relative to his leg strength and he fell as he caught the ball. I don't have much hope for the guy overall.

Rishard Matthews - Somehow my favorite rookie becomes the last guy on the roster at the position. Those are the breaks. He was the primary return man for pretty much the entire Buccaneers game and that is probably why I never saw him play as a receiver. He might have taken a few snaps that I didn't see but they had to be very few. Unlike Cunningham I believe Matthews has the strength to make sharp cuts and create separation. He also has the potential to do things after the catch. I believe his problem is most likely centered around his attention to detail in his route running, and his ability to consistently haul in the football. In short, he's a young, wide-eyed rookie with a load of potential that needs to get more comfortable with his surroundings. Getting comfortable with your surroundings leads to fewer drops. It leads to more attention to detail on your routes and knowledge of the offense. I think he showed he's got great natural instincts with the ball in his hands on those kick returns he ran against the Buccaneers, but he doesn't have the speed to keep hold of that job. He should be a punt returner but that position looks a little big for him at the moment. He'll likely need a year on the practice squad to get comfortable enough to let his talent shine. He does have talent though, you saw on Hard Knocks he whooped Vontae Davis deep and caught a ball there, and I've heard about several other big catches over Vontae.
 
Big props CK! It's the most interesting battle at camp, in large part because most of those guys are really unproven commodities. I really appreciate your assesment.
 
I agree that Roberto is probably our 5th receiver right now. Even with all the catches in the first preseason game, none of them really impressed me. Couple that with the fact that he performed awful on the last episode of hard knocks. This is his 3rd (?) season with the dolphins and he hasn't broken out yet. I think people have been giving him too much credit and to be honest I'd rather Chris Hogan get a roster spot than him.
 
One thing to start considering is whether Brian Hartline will end up on PUP, and how that would affect what guys we keep. Plus no matter who we keep, other peoples camp cuts we sign could push our 5th (or 6th if we keep that many) WR's off the roster.
 
Am I the only one that scopes out CK posts and thinks "well this just made the thread legit"?
 
Brandon Marshall and Earnest Wilford?

Brandon Marshall has proven to be an elite NFL talent.

Ernest Wilford was pretty solid for a few season in the NFL.

Roberto Wallace....... has accomplished about as much in the NFL as Omar has. Yet, Omar makes it sound like Wallace is Wilford on his bad days. GET REAL. I think we would all be very pleased if this guy would string together a couple of seasons for us like Wilford had in Jacksonville.

For the first time that I can recall I agree with WV about something. I don't know what it means, maybe nothing. But I'm shaken... :foundout:
 
Big props CK! It's the most interesting battle at camp, in large part because most of those guys are really unproven commodities. I really appreciate your assesment.

I don't honestly see many guys there to be really hopeful about. I see practice squadders, progress stoppers, a #2 and a #3, and some long shots.

My ideal-ideal roster would only contain one of those guys. My semi-ideal roster would contain only two of them. Aside from those two, there are two or three guys I have some long-shot type hope for somewhere down the road.
 
One thing to start considering is whether Brian Hartline will end up on PUP, and how that would affect what guys we keep. Plus no matter who we keep, other peoples camp cuts we sign could push our 5th (or 6th if we keep that many) WR's off the roster.

He was not placed on the Training Camp PUP list prior to the start of camp and therefore he's not eligible for the Regular Season PUP list.

If the NFLPA approves the changes to the trade deadline and the injured reserve, then the Dolphins may be able to put him on a new half-IR spot which will free up a roster spot for 8 weeks while he continues to try and get healthy. The NFLPA hasn't approved the changes yet though, last I checked.
 
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