OTA #1 Updates

[hoops]

I think practices are closed to the media the rest of the week. The media only gets one day a week.

ahh....thanks...what the hell am i doing here then

 

[Digital]

Lets consider the following for the 2013 season:

-A team record of 58 sacks surrendered
-We had the 21st ranked defense
-Mike Sherman calling plays
-A 2nd year QB still going through growing pains
-We lose our starting TE in preseason
-We lose 2 starting OL during the season
-Bullygate distraction
-Phillip Wheeler
-One of the worst drafts in recent Dolphins history by Ireland
-The 8th most difficult strength of schedule
-Injury to our best defensive player in Cam Wake

When considering all of these points, coupled with the glaring personnel deficiencies all over our roster, how can you not be amazed that we went 8-8? We were a 5 or 6 win team last year that managed 8 wins, but you are acting like we were a 12 win team that underachieved with 8 wins.

Additionally, Tannehill had 3 new targets last season. He got on the same page with Keller quickest, and as you mentioned he went down in preseason as things were clicking with Tannehill.

Then Tannehill developed chemistry with the feature position in Sherman's offense, the slot receiver Gibson. That was working also and we were winning early. Then he went down with a season ending injury.

So the guy with whom Tannehill had the least amount of chemistry and who runs the lowest percentage routes and who has the most unusual speed was the only one left. Having spent so much time developing chemistry with the other two new guys for the bread and butter underneath stuff - what the WCO is based upon - it was understandable that Tannehill was low to develop chemistry with Wallace and those deep routes.

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[Daytona Fin]

From today

 

[roy_miami]

Carroll lost the last two games of the season with the playoffs on the line vs two bad division opponents, one QBed by Thad freaking Lewis?? While finding a way to score a whopping 7 pts in 8 quarters?? Where was I when this happened?

Some posts from Seahawk fans discussing their head coach and QBs in Oct 2012, they look a little silly in hindsight (if not familiar).

The 4-year plan, while valid, should not be used as a crutch or an excuse for the in-season tactical things this team is failing.

Play calling, penalties, playing soft on 3rd down defense and red zone ineptness cannot be excused away as a victim of the 4-year plan. In my best Herman Edwards voice, you "play to win the game". While I agree the rebuilding project is not complete (it was made even more obvious when we totally ignored the offense outside of Robert Turbin in the draft), we are losing games not because of inferior talent but because of poor coaching and mistakes.

I guess our floor could be the chargers. Deep talented roster that keeps under performing. Boy I hope not.

But it's not, this team is built to compete for a Superbowl NOW, not in four years. We have all the other pieces in place, a top 5 defense, the #1 running attack in the league, and a very good special teams. All that's missing is a QB that can read a defense, convert on 3rd downs, and make a couple plays a game to score more than 10 points a game.

You might be right, Wilson could be the answer........but he's not the answer in 2012. Flynn gives us the best chance to win NOW.

This is the problem I have with Carroll's "unconventional" way of coaching.

Common sense says you signed Flynn, he's the more capable QB to start now with how good the rest of our team is. Flynn can read defenses, go through progressions faster and more times than not throw to the right spot and change plays when needed.

Why did Carroll rush Wilson into the starting job? There was no need, let the guy sit, learn the league and in a year or two if Flynn doesn't work out you bring him in. I just never saw the reason to rush Wilson, and now we're paying for it with the worst passing offense in the league.

Errr.......yeah, not sold on the Flynn arm issue thing. To me that's a backdoor excuse Carroll can sneak out of when he's taking heat for his decision to start a rookie QB. "Well I had no choice people! Matt's got that bum elbow for not throwing for six straight weeks while holding a clipboard! Yeah, that's the ticket!"

I also think it was a little naive of Carroll to put so much stock in Wilson's pre-season. Yes Wilson was great, but it was still the pre-season. No one tries, and no one schemes. Add in the fact that 2 out of Wilson's 3 pre-season games was against 2nd and 3rd stringers, most of which aren't even in the league anymore.

After the Arizona game I made a thread about "we will go 8-8 and miss the playoffs". Man was I trashed by many on this board. The next week I apologized about my statement. Not because I felt my comments were wrong, but that I didn't wait until my intended 4 game evaluation before making that thread.

Well here we are 4 games in and my original thread seems just as relevant today as then. The only difference is I just don't post much now, and I drink wine while I watch and don't really get worked up over the end results. Because any way you wish to look at it, we are still a work in progress. I felt Flynn would have potentially expedited that process, but obviously PC doesn't agree. I personally don't believe the elbow issue one damn bit. But it's not for me to say, so I just will keep watching the games with my wine glass in hand. No one is getting me worked up over this season. Not with this current offense.

well if pete carroll goes 7-9 for a third straight year then what improvements has he really made? we basically have a whole new team that is still mediocore. the whole league is getting better so yes are team is better than 2 years ago but so is the rest of the league. we need to take a bigger leap to get to the top. we need that elite quarterback plain and simple.

Instead, Pete bypassed Flynn and put Wilson on the fast track. It was a mistake. Mistakes about who your starting QB should be are deadly in the NFL. Not just to the team, but to the coaches credibility. Combine that with craptastic playcalling in crucial moments and there aren't many who will retain faith in Pete no matter how fantastic he is at building a good team. Pete needs to let Flynn play. If Flynn can't cut it, worst thing that happens is he would have given Wilson time to regather himself, learn on the sidelines and have a fire lit underneath him to get better and reclaim his team. If Flynn succeeds, nobody cares anymore that Pete made a bad judgement call because he corrected it. If Flynn fails, everyone sees that Pete's judgement was correct and it was just a matter of him not really having ANY QB that was ready, but at least he now can go back to Wilson knowing that he left no stone unturned.

No, Pete chose Wilson because Pete's "unconventional wisdom" and all the grief he took for picking him and Pete's inability to move past his college football years (onsides kicks, fancy plays that only work in college, etc.) blinded him to the fact that Wilson would not have the same success in the regular season. Pete has too much college 'rah rah" in him to get past how exciting Wilson looked vs vanilla defenses and second stringers to realize that Flynn might not look as flashy, but he's got the skillset to start in the NFL right NOW.

 

[SkapePhin]

Lets consider the following for the 2013 season:

-A team record of 58 sacks surrendered
-We had the 21st ranked defense
-Mike Sherman calling plays
-A 2nd year QB still going through growing pains
-We lose our starting TE in preseason
-We lose 2 starting OL during the season
-Bullygate distraction
-Phillip Wheeler
-One of the worst drafts in recent Dolphins history by Ireland
-The 8th most difficult strength of schedule
-Injury to our best defensive player in Cam Wake

When considering all of these points, coupled with the glaring personnel deficiencies all over our roster, how can you not be amazed that we went 8-8? We were a 5 or 6 win team last year that managed 8 wins, but you are acting like we were a 12 win team that underachieved with 8 wins.

So the only things you can point to as "positives" are really excuses to explain the deficiencies we all saw? I love it how you manage to absolve Philbin of anything that went wrong last season, as if he had not input whatsoever on talent acquisition. I am sure Philbin disagreed with Ireland on some moves, but there is no chance he was fundamentally opposed to every move that was made. A lot of those "excuses" fall on Philbin to some degree, especially Mile Sherman (who would still be here if Philbin had his way) and Bullygate.


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[Rev Kev]

Unvarnished facts on Philbin:
- 15-17 overall win loss record
- 4-8 vs the division
- Sparano had higher scoring offenses than Philbin has at any point during his tenure
- experienced several mid game collapses where the team lost huge leads to lose the game
- 0-2 vs Thad Lewis-led teams
- appointed Incognito as a leader
- didn't follow up with a mentally unstable starter which ultimately ended in scandal
- collapsed in final 2 games with playoffs on the line against non-playoff teams and division foes
- forced the trade of several productive players due to personality conflicts

I am trying to look for positive facts/statistics, but I am having trouble finding any. One positive I can recall that he did a decent job of recovering from the scandal after the TB loss, but that was all wasted in last two games.

Can anyone post the team's win/loss record against playoff teams over the past 2 seasons?


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Less unsightly gum wrappers?

 

[Zounds]

So the only things you can point to as "positives" are really excuses to explain the deficiencies we all saw? I love it how you manage to absolve Philbin of anything that went wrong last season, as if he had not input whatsoever on talent acquisition. I am sure Philbin disagreed with Ireland on some moves, but there is no chance he was fundamentally opposed to every move that was made. A lot of those "excuses" fall on Philbin to some degree, especially Mile Sherman (who would still be here if Philbin had his way) and Bullygate.


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You're still not making any sense. Bottom line is we had 8 wins with 5 or 6 win talent. You cant really argue against that.

And why are you quoting the words "positives" and "excuses"? Those weren't words I used. And aren't you the one who recently insisted Aponte (not Ireland) was running the whole organization? Sorry man, cant really take anything you are saying seriously.

 

[EvilDylan]

Thought this topic was supposed to be about OTA updates? Not a pissing contest about philbin?

 

[SkapePhin]

You're still not making any sense. Bottom line is we had 8 wins with 5 or 6 win talent. You cant really argue against that.

And why are you quoting the words "positives" and "excuses"? Those weren't words I used. And aren't you the one who recently insisted Aponte (not Ireland) was running the whole organization? Sorry man, cant really take anything you are saying seriously.

5-6 win talent? You just pulled that out of your ass and you know it. None of us have any way of quantifying how many wins the acquired talent should have because it depends a lot on he coach! Shocker! Is it 5 win talent with Belichick at the helm? One could make a case that the Dolphins actually had the best talent in the division if you view the roster in its totality. It certainly had more talent than the Jets and Bills, yet still ended up with practically the same record. Overall, the Dolphins roster also had more talent than the injury riddled roster the Pats had out there all year, except at QB. So Philbin took a roster with the best overall talent in the division, but ended up in 3rd place.

See how that works??


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[roy_miami]

5-6 win talent? You just pulled that out of your ass and you know it. None of us have any way of quantifying how many wins the acquired talent should have because it depends a lot on he coach! Shocker! Is it 5 win talent with Belichick at the helm? One could make a case that the Dolphins actually had the best talent in the division if you view the roster in its totality. It certainly had more talent than the Jets and Bills, yet still ended up with practically the same record. Overall, the Dolphins roster also had more talent than the injury riddled roster the Pats had out there all year, except at QB. So Philbin took a roster with the best overall talent in the division, but ended up in 3rd place.

See how that works??

So you felt Ireland was the best GM in the AFC East?

 

[Zounds]

5-6 win talent? You just pulled that out of your ass and you know it. None of us have any way of quantifying how many wins the acquired talent should have because it depends a lot on he coach! Shocker! Is it 5 win talent with Belichick at the helm? One could make a case that the Dolphins actually had the best talent in the division if you view the roster in its totality. It certainly had more talent than the Jets and Bills, yet still ended up with practically the same record. Overall, the Dolphins roster also had more talent than the injury riddled roster the Pats had out there all year, except at QB. So Philbin took a roster with the best overall talent in the division, but ended up in 3rd place.

See how that works??


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Now I am convinced you don't even watch football. You saying that the Dolphins had the most talented roster in the AFC East last year says it all.

 

[SkapePhin]

Now I am convinced you don't even watch football. You saying that the Dolphins had the most talented roster in the AFC East last year says it all.

Top to bottom, yes, yes it did. Compare all the rosters and prove me wrong. The problem was that Ireland left one GLARING hole that tanked the whole season, regardless of the talent f the other parts.

Best Pash Rush
2nd Best QB
Best WR corps
2nd best TE
3rd best RB corps
WORST OL

2nd Best Secondary
2nd Best Run D
3rd Best LB corps

Talent wise they had slightly better roster than the 3 other teams. The Patriots were winning against all odds with that roster. Because Brady is a beast and Bb can COACH! You are fooling yourself if you don't think BB wouldn't have been in the chanpionship game with the same roster Philbin was working with in this weak AFC

 

[Zounds]

The problem was that Ireland left one GLARING hole that tanked the whole season, regardless of the talent f the other parts.

But you said it was Philbin who's at fault for the 2013 season...make up your mind already :m359:

 

[SkapePhin]

Omg but my point still stands, he had a roster that had more talent than 5-6 wins, and Philbin was part of the talent acquisition process as much as you loathe to admit it. The GM doesn't operate in a vacuum. Even with all the OL woes, a top line coach would have guided this roster to the playoffs. And perhaps Bullygate never would have happened

 

[roy_miami]

Omg but my point still stands, he had a roster that had more talent than 5-6 wins, and Philbin was part of the talent acquisition process as much as you loathe to admit it. The GM doesn't operate in a vacuum. Even with all the OL woes, a top line coach would have guided this roster to the playoffs. And perhaps Bullygate never would have happened

I don't know about that but I do think we would have easily won 11 or 12 game with Aaron Rodgers at QB. I'm pretty sure we would have at least made the playoffs with any of the QBs taken in 2012 not named Tannehill or Weeden too. You see how that works?