Our base defense is a 3-4 ?

[Dolphin Clan]

Here is another article referring to our base defense as a 3-4.

"Defenses are undergoing another metamorphosis in 2005 as four teams -- Dallas, Miami, San Francisco and Cleveland -- switch to a base 3-4 defense, bringing the number of teams using the three linemen-four linebacker alignment to nine, the most since the formation was introduced in the 1970s.
Pittsburgh, San Diego, Houston, Oakland and New England all have been primarily running the 3-4, and almost every team has some modified version in its playbook."

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20050907-034949-5585r.htm


Our Finheaven gurus insist we have a 4-3 base.So which is it and does it really matter ?

 

[3P]

Here is another article referring to our base defense as a 3-4.

"Defenses are undergoing another metamorphosis in 2005 as four teams -- Dallas, Miami, San Francisco and Cleveland -- switch to a base 3-4 defense, bringing the number of teams using the three linemen-four linebacker alignment to nine, the most since the formation was introduced in the 1970s.
Pittsburgh, San Diego, Houston, Oakland and New England all have been primarily running the 3-4, and almost every team has some modified version in its playbook."

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20050907-034949-5585r.htm


Our Finheaven gurus insist we have a 4-3 base.So which is it and does it really matter ?

I guess technically you can call it a 3-4. It's really a 3-3 with an OE that is played by Taylor. Basically, it's an end that moves back and forth between LB/DE. We do have a NT and 2 big passrushing DTs though, so it's similar to a 3-4 in that sense. Really, It's a hybrid of both. And no, it doesn't matter what you want to call it... it's still going to be just as effective at giving OCs around the league nightmares. :evil:

 

[LOCAL SCUM!]

I think it's half and half..They play as much 3-4 as 4-3 so far. We'll see on Sunday for sure though.

 

[Clipse]

Dont think it will matter. They will do good with both, I think they will be switching off.

 

[CrunchTime]

Semantics.Whats in a name.? There will be all sorts of looks designed to confuse and I dont think the opposing QB is going to be asking himself this question.Its more likely he will want to know where JT is.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

If I go by preseason and look at the defense it looks more like a 5-2.

 

[ckparrothead]

If I go by preseason and look at the defense it looks more like a 5-2.

That is because you're seeing our 3-4 look where the outside linebackers play in. In reviewing the tape, that is probably our single most common formation is having the 3 down linemen lined up symmetrically along the OL, with an outside linebacker lined up on the outside shoulder of each DE, and two linebackers right in the middle behind the DL.

It has a look of being a 5-2 because it is so symmetrical, but if you pay attention, the linebackers playing outside of Kevin Carter and Vonnie Holliday are almost always in the up position.

People are not crazy to say that we have a base 3-4 defense. Even when we're in the 4-3, we're playing a technique that shares more similarities with the 3-4 than most 4-3 defenses in that we make use of a nose tackle with two hybrid DE/DT players on either side of him, and an OE that can go from up stance to down stance...and our strong side linebacker plays almost exclusively on the line of scrimmage.

And, after watching all of the tape from our preseason performances, our 3-4 alignments have become increasingly more effective, and increasingly popular to the point where you will see more 3-4 base alignments probably than 4-3.

I'm still waiting for KB21 to dish up his own crow for insisting that the Dolphins are going to be a 4-3 team in the base defense that utilizes the 3-4 maybe 20% of the time. LOL. Wonder what happened to all those militant posters who wouldn't let anyone post anything with the term "3-4" in it without incessantly pointing out that Nick Saban has NEVER played the 3-4 defense anywhere he's ever been! NEVER!

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

3-4, 4-3 all I can say is that this defense is going to be fun to watch.

 

[ckparrothead]

Amen to that. It already has been fun to watch. We've brought more safety and cornerback blitzes in 4 preseason games (I never saw the Atlanta game) than I think I've seen in the last 4 years of watching the dolphins! And supposedly Saban was keeping a lot held back for the regular season when the games count. How much more blitzing can you do?? Seems like it is his goal to constantly be rushing no less than 5 players, unless he's getting tricky and rushing only 2 or 3 and dropping everyone else into zones.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

agreed. I have missed football so much. Go Football. Go Dolphins.

I do agree that I have loved watching Bell blitz. He is so fast. I guess that is my fault. I love defensive players with speed.

 

[Disgustipate]

I'm still waiting for KB21 to dish up his own crow for insisting that the Dolphins are going to be a 4-3 team in the base defense that utilizes the 3-4 maybe 20% of the time. LOL. Wonder what happened to all those militant posters who wouldn't let anyone post anything with the term "3-4" in it without incessantly pointing out that Nick Saban has NEVER played the 3-4 defense anywhere he's ever been! NEVER!

To be fair, most of the people ragging on the idea that we would switch to the 3-4(Myself included) stopped after Saban picked up the nessicary pieces to run the Defense.

Prior to Free Agency, when ALOT of the noise about switching to the 3-4 and all the main debates started, we didnt have the pieces and it didnt seem like the pieces were out there, either in the draft or FA.

 

[rafael]

That is because you're seeing our 3-4 look where the outside linebackers play in. In reviewing the tape, that is probably our single most common formation is having the 3 down linemen lined up symmetrically along the OL, with an outside linebacker lined up on the outside shoulder of each DE, and two linebackers right in the middle behind the DL.

It has a look of being a 5-2 because it is so symmetrical, but if you pay attention, the linebackers playing outside of Kevin Carter and Vonnie Holliday are almost always in the up position.

People are not crazy to say that we have a base 3-4 defense. Even when we're in the 4-3, we're playing a technique that shares more similarities with the 3-4 than most 4-3 defenses in that we make use of a nose tackle with two hybrid DE/DT players on either side of him, and an OE that can go from up stance to down stance...and our strong side linebacker plays almost exclusively on the line of scrimmage.

And, after watching all of the tape from our preseason performances, our 3-4 alignments have become increasingly more effective, and increasingly popular to the point where you will see more 3-4 base alignments probably than 4-3.

I'm still waiting for KB21 to dish up his own crow for insisting that the Dolphins are going to be a 4-3 team in the base defense that utilizes the 3-4 maybe 20% of the time. LOL. Wonder what happened to all those militant posters who wouldn't let anyone post anything with the term "3-4" in it without incessantly pointing out that Nick Saban has NEVER played the 3-4 defense anywhere he's ever been! NEVER!

LOL! I've been wondering if someone would bring that up. There were so many posters claiming that anyone who thought we'd go to a 3-4 was just stupid. They're strangely (and peacefully) quiet now.

And my guess is that if you do hear from KB he'll claim that it may look like a 3-4 to the untrained eye but in reality it's a 4-3 by claiming that JT is really DL (or some other nonsense).

 

[ckparrothead]

To be fair, most of the people ragging on the idea that we would switch to the 3-4(Myself included) stopped after Saban picked up the nessicary pieces to run the Defense.

Prior to Free Agency, when ALOT of the noise about switching to the 3-4 and all the main debates started, we didnt have the pieces and it didnt seem like the pieces were out there, either in the draft or FA.

Good of you to admit it Disgustipate. Let the healing begin

I do understand though that once we got the personnel that looked like we could run the 3-4, a lot of the persecution stopped. But, on the flip side of that, one could say that the 4-3 people stopped being so vocal because it was obvious that Saban was building a 3-4 defense by virtue of the personnel he was getting.

What I think upset me the most was that any time I or someone else would start a thread or mention a player that would be a good fit for our style of defense because he's a hybrid OLB/DE type or a hybrid DE/DT type, or he's a big bodied NT type, we got outright FLAMED by a bunch of people who kept trying to be like "For once and for all, we are NOT moving to a 3-4 defense"

There were a whole lot of people who felt it was necessary for them and only them to "finally put to rest" the idea that we are moving to the 3-4, etc...and when they jumped onto their soapbox usually all they would say is that Saban has never run a 3-4 in any place he's coached.

What is obvious now is that Saban intended to turn this defense into a 3-4 base defense with lots of versatility from the start. You don't just switch a Jim Bates cast of players out for the cast of 3-4 juggernauts that we have now by "lucking" into it or by coincidence. He went out and targeted guys like Kevin Carter (perfect 3-4 DE), Vonnie Holliday (good 3-4 DE, uninspiring 4-3 DE and DT), Keith Traylor (perfect 3-4 NT), Donnie Spragan ("a big smart linebacker use to playing exclusively on the line of scrimmage") and Channing Crowder. Saban didn't just get whatever players he could and then wake up one morning and say "Gosh, you know what? I think these guys fit the 3-4 defense more than the 4-3! Maybe we ought to play the 3-4 a lot..."

That's my tirade, I apologize if anyone takes offense especially Disgustipate who is big enough to admit he use to be one of the guys who said we're not playing a 3-4.

 

[DolfanCole]

That is because you're seeing our 3-4 look where the outside linebackers play in. In reviewing the tape, that is probably our single most common formation is having the 3 down linemen lined up symmetrically along the OL, with an outside linebacker lined up on the outside shoulder of each DE, and two linebackers right in the middle behind the DL.

It has a look of being a 5-2 because it is so symmetrical, but if you pay attention, the linebackers playing outside of Kevin Carter and Vonnie Holliday are almost always in the up position.

People are not crazy to say that we have a base 3-4 defense. Even when we're in the 4-3, we're playing a technique that shares more similarities with the 3-4 than most 4-3 defenses in that we make use of a nose tackle with two hybrid DE/DT players on either side of him, and an OE that can go from up stance to down stance...and our strong side linebacker plays almost exclusively on the line of scrimmage.

And, after watching all of the tape from our preseason performances, our 3-4 alignments have become increasingly more effective, and increasingly popular to the point where you will see more 3-4 base alignments probably than 4-3.

I'm still waiting for KB21 to dish up his own crow for insisting that the Dolphins are going to be a 4-3 team in the base defense that utilizes the 3-4 maybe 20% of the time. LOL. Wonder what happened to all those militant posters who wouldn't let anyone post anything with the term "3-4" in it without incessantly pointing out that Nick Saban has NEVER played the 3-4 defense anywhere he's ever been! NEVER!

I was one to also say that we weren't going to a 3-4 base defense this year, but rather a 4-3 base with varying alignments. :baghead:

But to clarify, I believe that much of the debate was focused on the fact that everyone (the media and some fans) were stating that due solely to the fact that we hired Saban that we would switch to a 3-4 defense. The argument was then put forward that just because Saban was hired doesn't mean that we were going to a 3-4 defense. I do recall though that some posters did state that Saban had never run a 3-4 before, or at least that wasn't his predominant style of defense. I didn't know (nor do I know now) any evidence to prove or disprove that claim.

Regarding the 5-2 alignment, I don't recall that JT played in the up position in that alignment, or in most alignments. I thought he was down in a 1pt stance almost predominantly. I could very well be mistaken because I didn't really pay too much attention to it. So, I will defer to your observations and analysis, but I just bring that up for you to validate.

 

[PhinstiGator]

Not this again...

We run a BASE 4-3. More specifically, two defensive ends and two defensive tackles. Normally, an LB will jump up and the line will overshift to one side with a 5-2 allignment. It's called "odd fronts".

We don't normally use a true 3-4 allignment until an obvious passing situation.

Saban has always used a base 4-3 allignment. Look at the depth chart...DT and NT in the middle. DE & OE on the ends. Those allignments have the ability to change quickly before the snap and often do.