Our base defense is a 3-4 ?

[SMadison29]

In my eyes we're still a 4-3 until Taylor is out of the game & we have a true LB out there. Even in the past few year Taylor has done some jumping around like he has this year.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

I say Miami is what they are. If I were to actually label them something I would label them a 3-3 then add something like option 1.

So, 3-3 option 1.

Also I think the biggest difference is the switch from a very obvious 2 gap scheme to more of a 1 gap type scheme

 

[ckparrothead]

I was one to also say that we weren't going to a 3-4 base defense this year, but rather a 4-3 base with varying alignments. :baghead:

But to clarify, I believe that much of the debate was focused on the fact that everyone (the media and some fans) were stating that due solely to the fact that we hired Saban that we would switch to a 3-4 defense. The argument was then put forward that just because Saban was hired doesn't mean that we were going to a 3-4 defense. I do recall though that some posters did state that Saban had never run a 3-4 before, or at least that wasn't his predominant style of defense. I didn't know (nor do I know now) any evidence to prove or disprove that claim.

Regarding the 5-2 alignment, I don't recall that JT played in the up position in that alignment, or in most alignments. I thought he was down in a 1pt stance almost predominantly. I could very well be mistaken because I didn't really pay too much attention to it. So, I will defer to your observations and analysis, but I just bring that up for you to validate.

No offense man, but that's kind of like an old german saying "I do seem to remember during the war there was some mistreatment of Jews going on, but..." Sorry, I guess I felt persecuted and now I'm bitter lol.

It's cool though. With the 5-2 thing, you really have to watch the tapes again. I'm not tryin to be snotty or anything what I'm saying is it is VERY confusing. These guys that play in an "up" stance, it is usually pretty hard to tell that they're even in an "up" stance! LOL. I'm not kidding, they crouch down with their hands and arms low to the ground in almost a chairless sitting position, and half the time if you are just watching the play and not paying close attention you would swear there are actually five down linemen. It gets VERY confusing unless you play the tapes over and over like I do. Yes, when I review tape I do actually rewind and play the same play an average of probably 3 to 5 times for each play. It doesn't take as much time as you'd think, because you can fast forward past the down time between plays, commercials, time outs, etc. Thanks to the DVR units and also being able to download games onto my computer, it's not like I have to worry about those lines in the middle of the screen while i rewind or fast forward,

Now, Phinstigator, I must confess I'm not sure whether or not you are just joking, but if you are not, then you are obviously not paying attention to the games. I have reviewed every play of four out of the five preseason games, and I will tell you unequivocally that you are wrong. It's not your opinion, it's not that we can "both" be right, you are just plain wrong. Most of the time, if you review the tapes, you will see that Miami would play exclusively in the 4-3 alignment on one series, and then would play exclusively in the 3-4 on the next series. This included run downs, pass downs, first downs, second downs, third downs, everything. They would play the whole series in the 3-4, not just obvious passing downs. Then they would play a whole series in 4-3, not just obvious running downs or whatever. Then, they would go a series where they mixed up the alignments from 4-3 to 3-4. Basically, the Dolphins were playing the 3-4 AT LEAST 50 percent of the time, no matter what the down or distance.

In fact, the Dolphins' "obvious passing down" alignment has been without a doubt a four down linemen alignment most of the time. Whether this was in the Nickel, Dime, or whatever, it was four down linemen, with David Bowens at LDE, Kevin Carter at LDT, Vonnie Holliday at RDT, and Jason Taylor at RDE.

Get over it dude. The Phins have been using the 3-4 more than the 4-3, and their 4-3 resembles a 3-4 a lot more than it resembles what we played here before.

 

[rafael]

In my eyes we're still a 4-3 until Taylor is out of the game & we have a true LB out there. Even in the past few year Taylor has done some jumping around like he has this year.

JT was running downfield covering the slot receiver this preseason. If you're claiming that he was just lineman than you're just being obstinant. You might as well say that in my eyes the world is still flat.

 

[ckparrothead]

I say Miami is what they are. If I were to actually label them something I would label them a 3-3 then add something like option 1.

So, 3-3 option 1.

Also I think the biggest difference is the switch from a very obvious 2 gap scheme to more of a 1 gap type scheme

I understand where this thinking comes from, but again I would urge you to view the tapes and keep track of the alignments. Truly watch the alignment and the techniques, and you will see that when we're playing a 3-4, there is not a whole lot of difference between what we do and what, say, Pittsburgh does.

Clark Haggans lines up as a down lineman in a 4-3 set up for Pittsburgh just like Jason Taylor does for us. Such things are not alien whatsoever to the 3-4 alignment, but are actually pretty intrigal parts of it.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

Get over it dude. The Phins have been using the 3-4 more than the 4-3, and their 4-3 resembles a 3-4 a lot more than it resembles what we played here before.

No offense, however that was only preseason and you can't be definate until the actual season starts. It would make sense to play more 3-4 than 4-3 in preseason because the 1st string defense would need more work on 3-4 since it is new to most of the players. I think only Seau and Traylor actually played in a 3-4 and I am not totally sure about Seau.

 

[Dol-Fan Dupree]

I understand where this thinking comes from, but again I would urge you to view the tapes and keep track of the alignments. Truly watch the alignment and the techniques, and you will see that when we're playing a 3-4, there is not a whole lot of difference between what we do and what, say, Pittsburgh does.

Clark Haggans lines up as a down lineman in a 4-3 set up for Pittsburgh just like Jason Taylor does for us. Such things are not alien whatsoever to the 3-4 alignment, but are actually pretty intrigal parts of it.

I generally used to look at the tapes but since I cannot this year I haven't :). I guess I will have to take your word for it. I do have to say I can't wait till sunday.

 

[DolfanCole]

No offense man, but that's kind of like an old german saying "I do seem to remember during the war there was some mistreatment of Jews going on, but..." Sorry, I guess I felt persecuted and now I'm bitter lol.

No offense taken, although I don't know if I get the analogy. :confused:

But I know you've broken down the preseason games, and did so very well I might add. And I haven't watched all of the games (I couldn't bare to watch the Pittsburgh game) That's why I defer to your analysis. :D

 

[ckparrothead]

No offense, however that was only preseason and you can't be definate until the actual season starts. It would make sense to play more 3-4 than 4-3 in preseason because the 1st string defense would need more work on 3-4 since it is new to most of the players. I think only Seau and Traylor actually played in a 3-4 and I am not totally sure about Seau.

You're absolutely right, the Dolphins may have used the 3-4 so much in preseason even in their base defensive alignments just as a means to get players "caught up" so to speak in the alignment.

However, that ties into the other thing I noticed this preseason. Our 3-4 alignments were far more effective at stopping the run than our 4-3 alignments. They were also getting tons of pressure on the QB that way. Basically, in the 3-4, our players were outplaying their 4-3 counter-selves. That is what leads me to believe we won't see a significant change in philosophy between preseason and regular season...because the coaches are going to gravitate a lot towards what works, and the 3-4 was working.

 

[ckparrothead]

No offense taken, although I don't know if I get the analogy. :confused:

But I know you've broken down the preseason games, and did so very well I might add. And I haven't watched all of the games (I couldn't bare to watch the Pittsburgh game) That's why I defer to your analysis. :D

Sorry man, I meant the "I do recall though that some posters..." line. Some folks around here tried to use that "Saban has never played the 3-4" line to make other people who noticed the obvious look stooopid for saying or suggesting that Miami get some personnel to fit the 3-4 D.

 

[PhinstiGator]

Saban both describes our base D as a 4-3 and has set the starting lineup to show 2 Defensive tackles and three LB's.

(On what his defensive scheme will be) –
"The first thing we need to do is let our players play. If we played mostly 4-3, and draw into some odd packages and nickel situations, and that is probably where we will start because that is probably what we have the best personnel to play with at this point in time. That is what we will try to do. I don’t think we want to put our players that we have that are good quality players in positions that they would struggle to be successful in so as we build steam, it’s a little bit ‘what can we do’ as well."

(On Derrick Pope moving from inside to outside linebacker) – “He has done really well. I think it is misnomer to say that a guy moved from inside to outside (linebacker). He moved from Mike to Will therefore he moved from strong side inside to weak side inside. If you look at it as a 4-3, you say that you have a middle linebacker and two outside linebackers. Most of the way people play a 4-3, you have an end of the line guy and two inside guys because it is so hard find guys that can do all those things. He (Pope) has done really well at his position and one of the things that has helped him is that if you are Mike, you have to call the defense, set the front, and help everybody else get lined up to play...

 

[PhinstiGator]

...Now, Phinstigator, I must confess I'm not sure whether or not you are just joking, but if you are not, then you are obviously not paying attention to the games. I have reviewed every play of four out of the five preseason games, and I will tell you unequivocally that you are wrong. It's not your opinion, it's not that we can "both" be right, you are just plain wrong. Most of the time, if you review the tapes, you will see that Miami would play exclusively in the 4-3 alignment on one series, and then would play exclusively in the 3-4 on the next series. This included run downs, pass downs, first downs, second downs, third downs, everything. They would play the whole series in the 3-4, not just obvious passing downs. Then they would play a whole series in 4-3, not just obvious running downs or whatever. Then, they would go a series where they mixed up the alignments from 4-3 to 3-4. Basically, the Dolphins were playing the 3-4 AT LEAST 50 percent of the time, no matter what the down or distance...

Joking? Not at all. The Dolphins play a base 4-3 most of the time...using two defensive tackles. Some of that time Taylor will play from a stand-up position. Don't confuse that with a 3-4...he still has the DE responsibilities to hold the corner.

Taylor says Saban's version of the 4-3 will be "a little tighter, more disciplined" than the team's 2004 version, which for him will mean less all-out pursuit of the quarterback and more reading of plays at the line.

The Dolphins tend to use a true 3-4 ... a single defensive tackle (NT) in the middle in 3rd and long situations.

But, a real majority of the game you will see two Tackles in the middle of the line ...Holiday (DT) and Traylor (NT).

 

[ckparrothead]

LOL. OMG it's pretty obvious you haven't seen a single preseason game Phinstigator. It's kind of sad, actually.

 

[PhinstiGator]

LOL. OMG it's pretty obvious you haven't seen a single preseason game Phinstigator. It's kind of sad, actually.

LOL! I have them all on DVD and watched them multiple times! In fact, I just scanned through the 1st half of the Tampa game and could only find signs of a 3-4 four times. That's twice a quarter...not quite the 50% that you are touting.

 

[Dolphin Clan]

I guess it does matter from the reaction of some of the posters.