The Finster
Wedge Buster
by the finster on May 2, 2009 4:24 AM EDT 154 comments
When it comes to draft picks normally I have a wait and see attitude, and rarely dislike picks, it is always proven on the field, as it will be with Mr White, however I cant remember the last time I disliked a draft pick this much, I will be surprised if he ends up doing much of any thing.
A good rule of thumb(should have been rule of the wrist ha-ha) when evaluating a player or projecting how well a team is going to perform, is how many IFs there are, the more IFs, the less likely that team or player is of succeeding, hence the term IFFY ha-ha
These are the IFs I see at the QB position;
IF he can overcome his height disadvantage.
IF he can overcome his weight disadvantage.
IF he can change his looping Vick like delivery.
IF he can change his footwork, he doesn’t keep his feet under his shoulders so he always has to set himself before he throws which compounds his long delivery problem.
IF he can become comfortable in the pocket, he never had to in college, its not an option in the NFL, no matter how mobile you are, he would look to run too quickly.
On top of that his arm is not strong, its not weak, but its not strong.
Aside from his size these things can be coached, but each one of them can be very difficult to change.
Now just like the half of you I sat in front of the tv and watched the draft and I heard what Mayock said about White, but he also said he would have to change his delivery. The problem I have with Mayock is that he just gloss's over it, as if it were nothing, but the fact of the matter is, that it usually does not work, I can't recall any players who have successfully changed from the looping delivery to have success, I'm not saying they don't exist, I just can't recall any. Also the loop generates more power so taking that out of his delivery will sacrifice some of his power, he does not have a weak arm now, but after changing his delivery, who knows.
White has been throwing the same way for probably 15 years or more, you just can't change that overnight, the age old problem is when you put them in a game they just revert back, because its what is natural for that player.
Just last year Beck attempted to "tweak" his delivery, it ended up ruining his chances last year and may have ultimately cost him his job, and it was a minor "tweak" not fully changing his delivery.
White's foot work as a QB is flat out bad, as is illustrated by his bad performance at the combine, where he tied for 6th among QBs in the 3 cone drill, and the 20 yard shuttle. Not one of the QBs ahead of him ran faster than 4.81, and White ran a 4.55, despite the fact that he is much faster than they are, they out performed him in these foot work drills.
White played the QB spot with one foot out of the pocket, not a check down QB, he would look for a couple of options, and if nothing was there he would take off running, that will not work for him in the NFL. This may come as a surprise to some, but 56 players that participated in the 40 yard dash at the combine this year had better times than White, that is over one fifth of this years draft. where do you think that leaves him when ranked against the current NFL players?
Negatives: May not have a pro position. Lacks prototypical quarterback size and is not strong enough to take a lot of hits. Relies on big passing lanes and play-action to give him the chance to find receivers downfield. Needs to prove he has the hands to play in the slot as a receiver. Does not always secure the ball, and will keep it in his strong hand even running right. Exclusively worked in the shotgun and spread offense, so he needs to work on taking snaps and ball fakes. Can get the ball deep but is not accurate on well-defended passes beyond 10-12 yards. Struggles with accuracy on the move. Throws off his back foot too often. Does not have great touch on short throws. Delivery is stiff and mechanical. Lacks patience in the pocket, and will take off too soon and misses open targets. Makes questionable decisions with the ball, trying to make a play when nothing's there. Ball comes out of his hand poorly at times.
Copyright NFLDraftScout.com, distributed by The Sports Xchange.
His strengths however can not be taught, great athlete with great body control, a flat out player, a great leader, and a clutch player who always rises to the occasion, and that is exactly why people like him.
They say Pat White had a great combine, but that depends on what your looking at. Below are the events and where he ranked among the other participants at this years NFL combine.
event QB WR overall
40 yard dash= 4.55 1st 20th T-57th 1TE and 11 safeties did 4.55 or better
vertical jump = 35.0" 1st T-20th T-81st 3TEs, 2OL, 11DL and 9LBs did 35.0" or better
broad jump = 9'9" 2nd T-20th T-92nd 5TEs, 6DL, 11LBs and 6'6" 248 lb J Freeman(4.97 40y-) did 9'9" or better
3 cone drill= 7.06 T-6th 20th T-78th 7QBs, 6TEs, 1OL, 2DL and 8LBs did 7.06 or better
20 yard shuttle= 4.42 T-6th T-24th T-121st 5QBs, 6TEs, 3OL, 9DL and 12LBs did 4.42 or better
When they say Pat White had a great combine, their talking about how accurate he was throwing the ball, to open receivers, with no pass rush.
But when it comes to the agility drills, these results are worse than I thought they would be, events 4 and 5 are the events you want your QB to perform best in, what is most troubling is that he is a much better athlete then the other QBs, he should easily come in 1st in each event, but his foot work is bad, and his worst two events, are where you want your QB to excel.
As a WR prospect looking at these results you would think he was a lot bigger, as you can see on the list, he was out performed by way too many guys that are bigger than he is, and thats not even counting all the RBs and WRs that are bigger than him, and that is unfortunately most of them.
WR; IMO most likely to succeed at this spot, but again the IFs, WRs his size are usually faster, having a slight build but average speed, 6’ 0" 197 lbs White would have to learn WR without having a good height, weight, speed ratio.
RB; This is not realistic at all, the pounding an NFL RB takes is way too much for his slight frame, and adding weight would just make him slower with less quickness.
I am not a shrimp Patty hater, the results I found mirror what I thought I saw when he was in college, which is a player who was fast in college, but not in the NFL.
So who did we draft with that 2nd round pick, a small QB who's delivery, and foot work have to be changed, or a WR with no experience, and a bad height, weight, speed ratio, sounds IFFY to me.
As I said at the top he’ll have his chance to prove it on the field, but he will have to overcome a great deal to succeed in the NFL:>)
All combine results from NFL.com
When it comes to draft picks normally I have a wait and see attitude, and rarely dislike picks, it is always proven on the field, as it will be with Mr White, however I cant remember the last time I disliked a draft pick this much, I will be surprised if he ends up doing much of any thing.
A good rule of thumb(should have been rule of the wrist ha-ha) when evaluating a player or projecting how well a team is going to perform, is how many IFs there are, the more IFs, the less likely that team or player is of succeeding, hence the term IFFY ha-ha
These are the IFs I see at the QB position;
IF he can overcome his height disadvantage.
IF he can overcome his weight disadvantage.
IF he can change his looping Vick like delivery.
IF he can change his footwork, he doesn’t keep his feet under his shoulders so he always has to set himself before he throws which compounds his long delivery problem.
IF he can become comfortable in the pocket, he never had to in college, its not an option in the NFL, no matter how mobile you are, he would look to run too quickly.
On top of that his arm is not strong, its not weak, but its not strong.
Aside from his size these things can be coached, but each one of them can be very difficult to change.
Now just like the half of you I sat in front of the tv and watched the draft and I heard what Mayock said about White, but he also said he would have to change his delivery. The problem I have with Mayock is that he just gloss's over it, as if it were nothing, but the fact of the matter is, that it usually does not work, I can't recall any players who have successfully changed from the looping delivery to have success, I'm not saying they don't exist, I just can't recall any. Also the loop generates more power so taking that out of his delivery will sacrifice some of his power, he does not have a weak arm now, but after changing his delivery, who knows.
White has been throwing the same way for probably 15 years or more, you just can't change that overnight, the age old problem is when you put them in a game they just revert back, because its what is natural for that player.
Just last year Beck attempted to "tweak" his delivery, it ended up ruining his chances last year and may have ultimately cost him his job, and it was a minor "tweak" not fully changing his delivery.
White's foot work as a QB is flat out bad, as is illustrated by his bad performance at the combine, where he tied for 6th among QBs in the 3 cone drill, and the 20 yard shuttle. Not one of the QBs ahead of him ran faster than 4.81, and White ran a 4.55, despite the fact that he is much faster than they are, they out performed him in these foot work drills.
White played the QB spot with one foot out of the pocket, not a check down QB, he would look for a couple of options, and if nothing was there he would take off running, that will not work for him in the NFL. This may come as a surprise to some, but 56 players that participated in the 40 yard dash at the combine this year had better times than White, that is over one fifth of this years draft. where do you think that leaves him when ranked against the current NFL players?
Negatives: May not have a pro position. Lacks prototypical quarterback size and is not strong enough to take a lot of hits. Relies on big passing lanes and play-action to give him the chance to find receivers downfield. Needs to prove he has the hands to play in the slot as a receiver. Does not always secure the ball, and will keep it in his strong hand even running right. Exclusively worked in the shotgun and spread offense, so he needs to work on taking snaps and ball fakes. Can get the ball deep but is not accurate on well-defended passes beyond 10-12 yards. Struggles with accuracy on the move. Throws off his back foot too often. Does not have great touch on short throws. Delivery is stiff and mechanical. Lacks patience in the pocket, and will take off too soon and misses open targets. Makes questionable decisions with the ball, trying to make a play when nothing's there. Ball comes out of his hand poorly at times.
Copyright NFLDraftScout.com, distributed by The Sports Xchange.
His strengths however can not be taught, great athlete with great body control, a flat out player, a great leader, and a clutch player who always rises to the occasion, and that is exactly why people like him.
They say Pat White had a great combine, but that depends on what your looking at. Below are the events and where he ranked among the other participants at this years NFL combine.
event QB WR overall
40 yard dash= 4.55 1st 20th T-57th 1TE and 11 safeties did 4.55 or better
vertical jump = 35.0" 1st T-20th T-81st 3TEs, 2OL, 11DL and 9LBs did 35.0" or better
broad jump = 9'9" 2nd T-20th T-92nd 5TEs, 6DL, 11LBs and 6'6" 248 lb J Freeman(4.97 40y-) did 9'9" or better
3 cone drill= 7.06 T-6th 20th T-78th 7QBs, 6TEs, 1OL, 2DL and 8LBs did 7.06 or better
20 yard shuttle= 4.42 T-6th T-24th T-121st 5QBs, 6TEs, 3OL, 9DL and 12LBs did 4.42 or better
When they say Pat White had a great combine, their talking about how accurate he was throwing the ball, to open receivers, with no pass rush.
But when it comes to the agility drills, these results are worse than I thought they would be, events 4 and 5 are the events you want your QB to perform best in, what is most troubling is that he is a much better athlete then the other QBs, he should easily come in 1st in each event, but his foot work is bad, and his worst two events, are where you want your QB to excel.
As a WR prospect looking at these results you would think he was a lot bigger, as you can see on the list, he was out performed by way too many guys that are bigger than he is, and thats not even counting all the RBs and WRs that are bigger than him, and that is unfortunately most of them.
WR; IMO most likely to succeed at this spot, but again the IFs, WRs his size are usually faster, having a slight build but average speed, 6’ 0" 197 lbs White would have to learn WR without having a good height, weight, speed ratio.
RB; This is not realistic at all, the pounding an NFL RB takes is way too much for his slight frame, and adding weight would just make him slower with less quickness.
I am not a shrimp Patty hater, the results I found mirror what I thought I saw when he was in college, which is a player who was fast in college, but not in the NFL.
So who did we draft with that 2nd round pick, a small QB who's delivery, and foot work have to be changed, or a WR with no experience, and a bad height, weight, speed ratio, sounds IFFY to me.
As I said at the top he’ll have his chance to prove it on the field, but he will have to overcome a great deal to succeed in the NFL:>)
All combine results from NFL.com
