Pats dynasty coming to an end.

[ArmyFin7]

IMO teams are built in the draft. It takes coming out of a draft with at least 2 major contributors and 1 role player or 1 PB guy and 2 contributors to maintain success in the NFL. If you can’t accomplish this, you end up overpaying for players in FA and it quickly leads to cap issues. I will try and show example from every team in the AFC east to support my argument.

Using the draft formula, the Patriots have not had a successful draft since ’05. (When was the last time they won a superbowl?) The past few years the patriots have been much more active in free agency.

The 06 draft produced Lawrency Maroney, Chad Jackson, Dave Thomas, Garrett Mills, Stephen Gostkowski, and some other you’ll never hear of. Maroney, was he worth a 21st overall pick??

07 produced Brandon Meriweather, Clint Oldenburg, Justin Rogers, Mike Richardson….and more guys you’ll never hear of.

08 produced Jerod Mayo, Terrance Wheatly, Shawn Crable, Kevin O’Connell, Jonathan Wilhite, Matt Slater, and Bo Ruud.

This past offseason the Pats went heavy in FA for CB’s, and WR’s. If the Pats are this amazing drafting team that everyone thinks they are and refuse to question anything Bele does, then why in the world have they drafted 3 cbs in the past 3 years (4 if you count 09) and still had to sign a bunch of FA’s??

With the Randy Moss and Wes Welker trades as well and the folks they already had on board, they only drafted 1 wr over the past 3 years. A 2nd rounder named Chad Jackson….never heard of him.

With the talk of their LBing corps being old they have drafted 4 LBers in 08 and 07. Mayo being the only one that has turned into anything good. Congrats pats on not screwing up a top 10 pick.

I’m not sure this the Pats will have a steep drop off this yr. I am predicting winning between 10 and 12 games. This lack of quality drafting has left them turning over rocks and paying FA money. Going to bite them in the next couple years unless their 09 draft turns out spectacular.

With major players on the D and O line being FAs in 2010 it might explain the heavy drafting the pats did along the lines in 09. Recent history says they might be able to get 1 or 2 to work out. Somehow they’re going to have to resign or replace

Vince Wilfolk, Ben Watson, Nick Kaczur, Ryan O’callaghan, Stephen Neal, Rich Hochstein, Richard Seymour, Jarvis Green, Pierre Woods, Tully banta-cain, Tedy Bruschi, Stephen Gostkowski.

Wilfolk and Kaczur obviously will be the priority, but if they manage to get them both resigned it will definitely take uo the majority of the teams cap space. IMO any way they go with it, they are opening holes that cannot be filled in 1 year.

To make a comparison I will list the phins FA’s next season. Chad Pennington, Ronnie Brown, Davone Bess, Anthony Fasano, David Martin, Jason Ferguson, Matt roth, Jason Taylor, and Dan Carpenter.

Everyone has Henne pegged as the heir apparent to Pennington. If he leaves, it will free up a good chunk of cap room. Ronnie Brown and Devone Bess can easily be resigned along with Fasano and still have some cash left over.

Feel free to blast me, I’m sure it’s coming and i'll get more flack from Jets fans than Pats fans.

 

[TBW12]

Nah.

 

[Tailgater]

Reports of the Patriots demise are greatly exaggerated.

Have they had bad drafts? Sure. That can happen when you pick in the last 3rd of the draft for years. The 07 draft sure looks bad. Only Meriweather, Gostowski & richardson remain. The rest? All were still in the NFL last season, picked up by teams with more holes than the Pats had. they would have been happy to sneak Oldenberg to the PS, but he was picked up.

Last years draft was a good one. All but Rudd should be on the 53 man roster. Wheatley, Wilhite, Crable will all have the chance to make the starting lineup.

The Pats dynasty was built the same way they continue to do it today - a combination of the draft, UDFA's, & FA's. The ratios change from year to year, but it's a mix of all three. A team picking late in each round for years can't expect to pick up multiple starters in every draft. Indy does it better than most teams in the same situation. Look at how that works out when a few injuries hit. The quality of the backups leave a lot to be desired at times.

Why do the Pats stock up in FA? To get better. To add quality depth. They invested almost nothing by acquiring Bodden, Springs, Taylor, Galloway, Smith & Baker. All are proven NFL vets. Why the heck wouldn't they sign them given the opportunity?

What you see as a sign of the beginning of the end, I see as the strength of the team - reload at critical positions for chump change, ala Moss, Welker, Morris. I would not want a bunch of 1st / 2nd year players filling all those spots. Proven depth >>> unknown depth in my book. What 3rd - 7th rd rookie would provide what Galloway, Bodden, etc, bring to the table from the git-go? Few if any.

The biggest problem last year was the quality of fa cb's. They did a poor job filling in the gaping hole left by the loss of Samuel. If Bodden & Springs had been available instead of Bryant & O'Neal, I expect they would have made the playoffs. Unfortunately, they were not available, nor were there any cb's they felt were worth the asking price.

I expect the pats to win at least 12 games. They could even go undefeated again. I expect their run to continue well into the next decade. As long as Brady & Belichick are around, I'll continuie to believe that.

 

[Ricky_Fan34]

Reports of the Patriots demise are greatly exaggerated.

Have they had bad drafts? Sure. That can happen when you pick in the last 3rd of the draft for years. The 07 draft sure looks bad. Only Meriweather, Gostowski & richardson remain. The rest? All were still in the NFL last season, picked up by teams with more holes than the Pats had. they would have been happy to sneak Oldenberg to the PS, but he was picked up.

Last years draft was a good one. All but Rudd should be on the 53 man roster. Wheatley, Wilhite, Crable will all have the chance to make the starting lineup.

The Pats dynasty was built the same way they continue to do it today - a combination of the draft, UDFA's, & FA's. The ratios change from year to year, but it's a mix of all three. A team picking late in each round for years can't expect to pick up multiple starters in every draft. Indy does it better than most teams in the same situation. Look at how that works out when a few injuries hit. The quality of the backups leave a lot to be desired at times.

Why do the Pats stock up in FA? To get better. To add quality depth. They invested almost nothing by acquiring Bodden, Springs, Taylor, Galloway, Smith & Baker. All are proven NFL vets. Why the heck wouldn't they sign them given the opportunity?

What you see as a sign of the beginning of the end, I see as the strength of the team - reload at critical positions for chump change, ala Moss, Welker, Morris. I would not want a bunch of 1st / 2nd year players filling all those spots. Proven depth >>> unknown depth in my book. What 3rd - 7th rd rookie would provide what Galloway, Bodden, etc, bring to the table from the git-go? Few if any.

The biggest problem last year was the quality of fa cb's. They did a poor job filling in the gaping hole left by the loss of Samuel. If Bodden & Springs had been available instead of Bryant & O'Neal, I expect they would have made the playoffs. Unfortunately, they were not available, nor were there any cb's they felt were worth the asking price.

I expect the pats to win at least 12 games. They could even go undefeated again. I expect their run to continue well into the next decade. As long as Brady & Belichick are around, I'll continuie to believe that.

It will be years and years and years before another team goes undefeated in the NFL. What the Patriots accomplished was incredible. with that said though, you can't do that twice. Important pieces have left, holes have formed, and injuries occur. You learned that last season. All it takes is 1 hit for a guy to be done for his career. I suspect Brady will be prone to another knee injury at some point this year, Whether it be serious or just a nagging injury, i dont know. Miami is up and coming. New England been up, and now their falling. Steadily, but still falling. They still have a good shot to take the divison this year barring injuries. Like i sais though, 1 hit can change everything for a team.

 

[JT-forpresident]

the pats' dynasty will come to an end when belichik retires, he can scoop up any player or any coach, and build a competitive team

the pats might have a shot the year after he retires like when john gruden took over in tampa after dungy left... because you know there will be some good core players on that roster when that time comes and a brickload of draft picks (again !)

 

[Lilseb93]

the pats' dynasty will come to an end when belichik retires, he can scoop up any player or any coach, and build a competitive team

the pats might have a shot the year after he retires like when john gruden took over in tampa after dungy left... because you know there will be some good core players on that roster when that time comes and a brickload of draft picks (again !)

I disagree. A dynasty is when you win SB's with in a certain time frame. They haven't won a SB since 2004. So, it's been 5 years. Going 18-1 dosen't count (Eventhough it's amazing) because winning 18 games is meaningless if you lose the SB. Now, last season showed their weaknesses and age issues. The team has holes and ? marks, but they are still a good team. To think they will go 16-0 is delusional and to think BB will have a winning season every year is a little to far fetched. There will come a time when they have a losing season. It happens to every team eventually, like the Pats were pretty bad before the 2000's. Miami had their down years in the mid 2000's, but now they are on the rise again. It happens in sports, no team is good forever. Even Shula (The most winning coach in the NFL) had some losing seasons.

 

[Tailgater]

It will be years and years and years before another team goes undefeated in the NFL. What the Patriots accomplished was incredible. with that said though, you can't do that twice. Important pieces have left, holes have formed, and injuries occur. You learned that last season. All it takes is 1 hit for a guy to be done for his career. I suspect Brady will be prone to another knee injury at some point this year, Whether it be serious or just a nagging injury, i dont know. Miami is up and coming. New England been up, and now their falling. Steadily, but still falling. They still have a good shot to take the divison this year barring injuries. Like i sais though, 1 hit can change everything for a team.

So because the Pats slid from 16-0 to 11-5, they are in a decline? Now i see your logic. Fins went 1-15, then 11-5, so they are 'up & coming'. Got it.

If balls bounce their way, Pats certainly could go undefeated. they like doing things nobody expects, like winning btb SB's. Everybody said that was impossible too.

The Pats have some question marks. What team doesn't? Given their qb & coach, it's easier to think they can overcome those holes than it is to think other teams can. they have the track record to prove it. few other teams do.

 

[BobDole]

i don't about coming to an end, but their defense is gonna be pretty soft next year. their offense still scares the hell out of me though.

 

[71husky]

So because the Pats slid from 16-0 to 11-5, they are in a decline? ....

Thanks Tailgator. I don't think a decline is in the works either.

And to remind all Dolphin fans, that 11-5 record was the same as yours. The Dolphins won the division via a tie-breaker scenario. And I would think most important, the 11-5 record for the Patriots was on the back of a QB who wasn't named Brady and hadn't started a game since high school. It's convenient to forget certain mitigating factors when it's to your advantage, isn't it?

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

If New England would've won that superbowl....(achieving 19-0)....are they REALLY any better of a team than the one that went 18-1? Hell no....

They were ONE miraculous play by Eli and Tyree from winning it.....ONE defensive stop at the end from achieving arguably the most rediculous feat in all of sports history....

It seems like some people have forgotten the margin of victory that they were slaughtering teams by that year....

They're also the best in the league at ACQUIRING all these draft picks.....for every draft pick that seemingly may not work out....they almost make up for it by developing some player they had a 4th or 7th rounder tied up in and trade him away for multiple high picks....

....or trading a 4th rounder in exchange for a HOF player still in his prime....

They can make one move that cancels out 3 picks that didn't work out...

The bottom line is they never get caught slipping when it comes to looking further down the road than "this season".....very few teams in the league can say the same thing...

They understand that there IS more than one way to skin a cat....and they're versatile enough upstairs to make it happen....they don't HAVE to hit on as many draft picks as most teams do....

They're still on the plus side by quite a margin when it comes to personnel decisions and acquiring/blowing draft picks.....and they did it again this year....and they have more ammunition to play with in next year's draft....

New England isn't going anywhere anytime soon....they're not going to fall back to the pack.....the pack is still going to have to catch them....

 

[Clipse]

So because the Pats slid from 16-0 to 11-5, they are in a decline? Now i see your logic. Fins went 1-15, then 11-5, so they are 'up & coming'. Got it.

If balls bounce their way, Pats certainly could go undefeated. they like doing things nobody expects, like winning btb SB's. Everybody said that was impossible too.

The Pats have some question marks. What team doesn't? Given their qb & coach, it's easier to think they can overcome those holes than it is to think other teams can. they have the track record to prove it. few other teams do.

Give me a break. Saying the Pats could go undefeated shows nothign but homerism.

As for if the Pats are on the decline? Yes, I think everyone can see that. Their defense is old. Their QB is coming off a serious injury. They have started missing on alot of draft picks. Sorry, you can't stay good forever, and the Pats time is over.

 

[71husky]

Give me a break. Saying the Pats could go undefeated shows nothign but homerism.

As for if the Pats are on the decline? Yes, I think everyone can see that. Their defense is old. Their QB is coming off a serious injury. They have started missing on alot of draft picks. Sorry, you can't stay good forever, and the Pats time is over.

So being a Dolphins fan, saying that the Dolphins are on the upswing and the Patriots are on the downswing isn't homerism? Most of any team's fans show homerism in most anything they say positive about their team or negative about their opponents. It's only human nature.

I agree with Tailgater, barring any significant injuries, the Patriots are one of the strongest teams in the AFC if not all of the NFL. Barring any significant injuries to any member of the O or D for whom there is no solid replacement somewhere else on the roster, the Patriots have the ability to go undefeated and win the SB. Anything is possible, as tailgater said, if the balls bounce their way.

 

[BobDole]

So being a Dolphins fan, saying that the Dolphins are on the upswing and the Patriots are on the downswing isn't homerism? Most of any team's fans show homerism in most anything they say positive about their team or negative about their opponents. It's only human nature.

I agree with Tailgater, barring any significant injuries, the Patriots are one of the strongest teams in the AFC if not all of the NFL. Barring any significant injuries to any member of the O or D for whom there is no solid replacement somewhere else on the roster, the Patriots have the ability to go undefeated and win the SB. Anything is possible, as tailgater said, if the balls bounce their way.

not necessarily disagreeing with you, but going from 1 win to winning the division is a pretty decent argument for us being on the upswing. and you guys going from annoyingly unbeatable to getting old and injured is a decent argument for you guys being on the downswing. with a few of your FA acquisitions this off season - springs, taylor, galloway, etc - it does seem like you guys are grasping at straws to capture your former dominance. while that is understandable, since brady isn't quite an invincible youngster anymore, you can't say you don't see it.

i can say that if you guys can stay healthy, then you have a better team than us from top to bottom. but that doesn't mean we won't split the season series like we typically do and it certainly doesn't mean you guys will go undefeated on your way to another SB victory. like it or not, the dolphins are better than they were last year and will only continue to improve. we're full of young talent and are finally coached the way we should be. the proverbial ball can bounce either way my friend.

i look forward to a competitive series with you guys next year. i'm not saying i won't be rooting for brady to have that career ender i pray for and i won't say i don't wish for belichick to fall victim to some sort of uncurable flesh eating bacteria - but i do want our season series to be close games. i can't wait for the day that patriot fans lose the smug attitude and fall back to earth with the rest of us. last year was a good start.

 

[finfan54]

Reports of the Patriots demise are greatly exaggerated.

Have they had bad drafts? Sure. That can happen when you pick in the last 3rd of the draft for years. The 07 draft sure looks bad. Only Meriweather, Gostowski & richardson remain. The rest? All were still in the NFL last season, picked up by teams with more holes than the Pats had. they would have been happy to sneak Oldenberg to the PS, but he was picked up.

Last years draft was a good one. All but Rudd should be on the 53 man roster. Wheatley, Wilhite, Crable will all have the chance to make the starting lineup.

The Pats dynasty was built the same way they continue to do it today - a combination of the draft, UDFA's, & FA's. The ratios change from year to year, but it's a mix of all three. A team picking late in each round for years can't expect to pick up multiple starters in every draft. Indy does it better than most teams in the same situation. Look at how that works out when a few injuries hit. The quality of the backups leave a lot to be desired at times.

Why do the Pats stock up in FA? To get better. To add quality depth. They invested almost nothing by acquiring Bodden, Springs, Taylor, Galloway, Smith & Baker. All are proven NFL vets. Why the heck wouldn't they sign them given the opportunity?

What you see as a sign of the beginning of the end, I see as the strength of the team - reload at critical positions for chump change, ala Moss, Welker, Morris. I would not want a bunch of 1st / 2nd year players filling all those spots. Proven depth >>> unknown depth in my book. What 3rd - 7th rd rookie would provide what Galloway, Bodden, etc, bring to the table from the git-go? Few if any.

The biggest problem last year was the quality of fa cb's. They did a poor job filling in the gaping hole left by the loss of Samuel. If Bodden & Springs had been available instead of Bryant & O'Neal, I expect they would have made the playoffs. Unfortunately, they were not available, nor were there any cb's they felt were worth the asking price.

I expect the pats to win at least 12 games. They could even go undefeated again. I expect their run to continue well into the next decade. As long as Brady & Belichick are around, I'll continuie to believe that.

apparently you have won these past years with suck *** teams like us and bills and even Jets. That is not so anymore. Very competitive in teh AFC East. I think Brady takes some serious hits this year. The loss of coaches and that tightness of pulling together for wins at the end of games just is not there anymore. You have beaten up on sorry *** teams but lost to good ones like Indy so....yeah, I would say the Pats are still a serious team with firepower, but the bigger picture is completely overlooked.

The Dolphins have played 60 minute football better than most teams in the league last year. I would also say one more year of understanding the system and two rookie CB's who could make an instant impact could dictate that Miami is not someone anyone wants to face especially if your a team like Indy, Atlanta, NO, Steelers, Carolina, Tampa, and Jax who have never ever experienced the wildcat let alone WC 2.0

 

[finfan54]

Give me a break. Saying the Pats could go undefeated shows nothign but homerism.

As for if the Pats are on the decline? Yes, I think everyone can see that. Their defense is old. Their QB is coming off a serious injury. They have started missing on alot of draft picks. Sorry, you can't stay good forever, and the Pats time is over.

I think coaching is a bigger issue. Yeah they find guys to take the place of other guys, but sooner or later you lose something. I think this year Brady puts it all on his shoulders but feels the pain in his shoulder as the season goes on.

A decline? a slight one but if there many young draft picks get up to speed in a hurry, then not so much. The bigger issue is that NE also has a tough schedule. AFC East is tough.