Paul Soliai, Dolphins never came close to deal

[dlockz]

Now that I see the numbers I understand why they didn't sign him. What is surprising that he is not playing big for the payoff next season. His agent is doing a disservice to him asking for 30 mil in guarantees. That won't happen.

funny how his agent wants his contract structured like a guy that did not have the franchise tag on him and not like the best nt in football whose contract is set up this way. far as im concerned Paul and his agent can take his one year of good play and take his services elsewhere. 8 mill a year and 30 mill total in guarantees and the mighty solai who has been to so many pro bowls and played so many top flight years is not amused.

 

[Swantoon]

I say let him walk and let another team overpay for him. We aren't a good enough team that we can afford to give a guy who is not dominant at his position that kind of money. If he was half as disruptive as Wilfork I would say sign him, but he just isn't.

 

[DANTODUPER]

This FO is an embarrassment.. I know he hasnt done much in two games, but IMO he was worth the contract. Say byebye to Paul come the end of the season.

If he continues to play like this I really hope he is gone after this year. To be honest last year was the first I saw Paul doing some interesting things, on previous years he was always the weakest NT I ever saw, every center could move him like he was under 200, it was frsutrating to see that heavy body easily removed by any lineman. Last year was his first "solid" one, so let's give him this year and if he fails, let's find a true NT next year... finally!

 

[Fish-Head]

[/URL]Please tell me why the FO is an embarrassment here......please.

Would you like to know why Soliai can ask for the moon??? Because there is no backup plan... We are a year removed from Starks being inserted at nose to make room for the the 'vaunted' rook Odrick. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CUPBOARD... This is why the FO is an embarrassment... A joke... A punchline. Ireland has done it to himself... Where is the leverage??? They didn't have a clue what they had in Soliai to the extent that he was not EVEN IN THE CONVERSATION when Odrick joined. Now they are playing catch up...

Want to know why Denver and Orton could ask for the moon???? EXACT same thing... Ireland is a complete buffoon and these types of negotiations expose him over and over... The amount of picks and money we have wasted on the D-line it is INEXCUSABLE to not have options there... Ireland has messed his own bed...

And you want the truly GREAT news????? Henne is in a contract year.

 

[hightempo]

In reality his agent is bein greedy its standard practice to include this year in the negotiations. 30 mill guaranteed over a 4 year contract is way beyond what he should get. if he plays well it may work out but there is no guarantee he will get a contract worth 8 million a year anywhere else. Aubrayo franklin was franchised last year and this year and this year is playing under a one year 4 million dollar contract for a new team. The is precedent for what the dolphins are asking in this contract. Vince wilfork a much better dt than Solai got 25 million with the franchise number included in that bonus. hey if the defense keeps playing the same way it is now u can rest assure nobody will break the bank for solai. i still dont get where u are saying he made 12 million last year, this is the reason we were trying to get a deal done . Thuis is not past money we are talking about this is this seasons money that we are currently in, a whole two games.

listen i agree 100%, and i support the decision. and i see what ur saying i really do. i get it. the thing is here u have to see both sides. think about it. if u are paul soliai and u are already making $12 million for this year - that money is in the bank no matter what happens. there is no point and no benefit to use that money as part of a negotiation and in reality it isnt and u dont. this is just the game gms and agents play with the media, its the way things are worded that make them seem one way when the reality of the contract and the negotiation are completely different. for instance deals get reported all the time as 6 years 60 million for example. when in reality it may only be a 3 year deal. its structured like a 3 year deal. the agent knows it the gm knows it and it may only be a $25 million deal - but its reported like it is and the agent can say "i got my client X amount of money - look what a good agent i am"

the truth is u dont negotiate a contract that includes money u have already earned or u are guaranteed to earn. u wouldnt, i wouldnt, agents wouldnt, and gms cant cause its simply not feasible - unless they had some other sort of leverage (and i cant really think of any that would justify including past earnings off the top).

so really what the dolphins offered paul was a 2 yr $12 million contract with $6 million of that guaranteed - moving forward. if other NTs that are arguably in the same class as Soliai are signing in the neighborhood of $27 million with $18 million in guarantees - the market is pretty set from an agents perspective and it would be for u or for me or any other reasonable person that wanted to get paid fairly. even if paul REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to stay. it wouldnt make sense to sign that deal.

afterall the dolphins already did tag him once. meaning hes valuable enough to them to tag him AGAIN. the didnt exactly replace him in the offseason and there is nobody set to fill the position. he knows how valuable he is, and he knows if he plays well how hard it is to find guys that have his combination of skill, performance, and youth all on their side.

meaning soliai was the one with ALL the leverage in this situation. ALL OF IT. now the dolphins clearly said (and perhaps rightfully so) right now we dont think ur worth $18 million guaranteed in new money. were not going to pay u like that guy in cleveland.

now there are 2 ways this can go. perhaps soliais play falls off and the numbers change for the guy - in which case its unlikely that he ends up signing a deal with less than $6 million in guarantees in new money in the offseason. in other words - no matter what its VERY VERY VERY unlikely he loses even a dime. now on the otherhand, if hes banking on himself and he plays well. there is a very good chance the dolphins end up ponying up ANYWAYS with a solid year and a half of production and he winds up somewhere around $20 million in guarantees. and if the dolphins dont pay it, its very likely another team will

it makes sense for the dolphins at this point. what if he doesnt play well? what if he gets hurt? it makes sense for them to let him play under the franchise tag, and then tag him again or sign him to an extension when they are satisfied hes worth the risk. at this point they already missed the boat and ended up having to franchise him anyways. so why pony up now? might as well wait it out.

and for soliai hes protected basicall all the way around. its almost a certainty he gets an offer in the offseason thats more than the dolphins were willing to pay now. and if he gets injured hell stand to make more than the dolphins were willing to pay anyways because he took out a policy specifically for that reason.

it just makes sense from both sides. there was never really anything to negotiate here and both sides never expected a deal

 

[JCfinfan]

We are smart not throwing long-term money in this guy. Yes, he was a beast last year (his contract year). I haven't seen him do much this year. Seems to me we are getting gashed up the middle these first 2 games.

 

[dlockz]

Should have traded him and signed aubrayo franklin on the cheap. solai is not one of the best nt in football

 

[dlockz]

We are smart not throwing long-term money in this guy. Yes, he was a beast last year (his contract year). I haven't seen him do much this year. Seems to me we are getting gashed up the middle these first 2 games.

a guy with one good year out of his career wants to be guaranteed 30 million dollars screw him and his agent.

 

[hightempo]

a guy with one good year out of his career wants to be guaranteed 30 million dollars screw him and his agent.

its the market bro. it has nothing to do with these guys. he would have been overjoyed im sure signing a 4 yr extension for $14 million with $4 million in guarantees prior to last year. the dolphins easily could have had him for 4 more years at those types of numbers. instead of ridiculously having to sign a guy with half a season of productive play to a franchise tender and then having to pay him nearly $20 million in guarantees just to pay market prices on a the guy so u dont have a hole at nose tackle moving forward.

does this sound like an agant and player problem?? OR does it sound like a FRONT OFFICE problem???

i think its pretty easy to see! this coaching staff AGAIN failed to identify a player that was CURRENTLY ON THE ROSTER and could play at a high level. isnt that the key to building a team???

everybody wonders why we suck? they cant even identify players on their own roster. thats pretty bad. the key to building a foundation for a perennial contender is to IDENTIFY talent BEFORE it emerges entirely and WHILE YOU HAVE LEVERAGE in contract negotiations. u give them guaranteed money to replace the pennys (comparatively) they make currently in exchange for years. so u solidify their future while also solidifying yours. each side gives - but its well worth it for the player at the point u extend them. so in the big picture u sign them relatively cheap - especially when u compare it to what happened with soliai

there is NO WAY this guy EVER should have been playing on a franchise tag. no way no how. it speaks volumes of the failure of this staff and front office

 

[dlockz]

its the market bro. it has nothing to do with these guys. he would have been overjoyed im sure signing a 4 yr extension for $14 million with $4 million in guarantees prior to last year. the dolphins easily could have had him for 4 more years at those types of numbers. instead of ridiculously having to sign a guy with half a season of productive play to a franchise tender and then having to pay him nearly $20 million in guarantees just to pay market prices on a the guy so u dont have a hole at nose tackle moving forward.

does this sound like an agant and player problem?? OR does it sound like a FRONT OFFICE problem???

i think its pretty easy to see! this coaching staff AGAIN failed to identify a player that was CURRENTLY ON THE ROSTER and could play at a high level. isnt that the key to building a team???

everybody wonders why we suck? they cant even identify players on their own roster. thats pretty bad. the key to building a foundation for a perennial contender is to IDENTIFY talent BEFORE it emerges entirely and WHILE YOU HAVE LEVERAGE in contract negotiations. u give them guaranteed money to replace the pennys (comparatively) they make currently in exchange for years. so u solidify their future while also solidifying yours. each side gives - but its well worth it for the player at the point u extend them. so in the big picture u sign them relatively cheap - especially when u compare it to what happened with soliai

there is NO WAY this guy EVER should have been playing on a franchise tag. no way no how. it speaks volumes of the failure of this staff and front office

Im pretty sure its obvious why he is on a franchise tag, he wanted more money than we were willing to pay in a long term contract. Hell we can see from the negotiations that solai's agent greatly overvalues him. the only reason he was franchised is we could not reach a deal and now that he getting overpaid on the franchise he wants to break the bank and make more than better dt's. the way free agency went this year it would have been better not to franchise him because in this years free agent market he would have probbaly got his best deal here and besides not many teams were looking for NT's.

why would we have given solai a contract prior to this year when he had shown nothing to the point. In fact Mike Nolan moved starks to NT because he had no faith in solai. Im still trying to figure out how that is market price. Rubin is a better player than him, Ratliff is a better player than him and Wilfork is definately a better player than him. He is much closer to aubtrayo franklin than any of these three guys

 

[finfan54]

he doesnt play passing downs generally

now here is a point i bet ireland drove home to his agent but you dont read that in the article.

 

[LikeUntoGod]

Very importnat and then overpaid NTs is one of a number of reasons I do not like the 3-4. You need at least 3 special players to play this defense. A HUGE and very good NT. Then you need two 6'4"-6'6' 260-270 pound pass rushing OLB's.

Right now we have the NT. We have one good pass rushing OLB (who only has one move) and a aging Jason Taylor who is still the 2nd best pass rusher on this team.

Since we only draft big slow DT/NTs and big slow DE's to play the huge 3 man DL we need, we have zero speed to rush the passer.

So, slow down or stop Wake and Taylor and we have nothing else. We have 4 sacks this season, 2 from Wake, 1 from JT and one from a blitz with R Jones.

 

[UHHS]

now here is a point i bet ireland drove home to his agent but you dont read that in the article.

Main reason every other DT mentioned here got good contracts. They all play passing downs and evey single one of them except Soliai, gets good penitration. Like I said, no big deal if he signs somewhere else at the end of the season because he is doing very little to prove he is worth anything substantial. If anyone argues that point then they are either his agent or part of his family, period.

His agent is a putz. Looking at his list of clients he is most using Soliai as an instrument to show whatever prospective clients he may have that he is a good bargainer. Going to backfire in his face on this one though. I cannot imagine this guy has a good repoir with other teams at all. Like I said, no Soliai on defense is fine with me, he is not there now anyway.

 

[hightempo]

Very importnat and then overpaid NTs is one of a number of reasons I do not like the 3-4. You need at least 3 special players to play this defense. A HUGE and very good NT. Then you need two 6'4"-6'6' 260-270 pound pass rushing OLB's.

Right now we have the NT. We have one good pass rushing OLB (who only has one move) and a aging Jason Taylor who is still the 2nd best pass rusher on this team.

Since we only draft big slow DT/NTs and big slow DE's to play the huge 3 man DL we need, we have zero speed to rush the passer.

So, slow down or stop Wake and Taylor and we have nothing else. We have 4 sacks this season, 2 from Wake, 1 from JT and one from a blitz with R Jones.

truth is 3-4 probably doesnt make as much sense as a 4-3 anyways. unless u are committed to stopping the run AND u are going to keep your base defense on the field. otherwise what u end up with on the roster is a bunch of guys that cant play every down. so u end up with not as much roster flexibility with your defense and u end up paying for pieces that dont see the field perhaps as much as they should like paul soliai. NT is becoming a very situational position when u have teams playing 3 wrs and or 2 tes on most downs. since your nickel coverages u end up with 4 downlineman anyways you might as well build from 4-3 personal to begin with. not to mention the fact u absolutely need a very good NT and 2 outstanding OLB to make the 3-4 fly. its not easy to fill those 3 holes adequately.

i dont know for sure. but i think belicheck looked at his team and realized he just didnt have the ammo at OLB to make it work the way he wanted to, AND realized hes in nickel 70% of the time anyways. might as well find some lineman that can penetrate because ill be able to use them all 4 downs. in addition nothing disrupts a quarterback more than pressure right up the middle. by the end of the year that haynesworth acquisition is going to be highway robbery just like Moss was the year he came over

 

[LikeUntoGod]

truth is 3-4 probably doesnt make as much sense as a 4-3 anyways. unless u are committed to stopping the run AND u are going to keep your base defense on the field. otherwise what u end up with on the roster is a bunch of guys that cant play every down. so u end up with not as much roster flexibility with your defense and u end up paying for pieces that dont see the field perhaps as much as they should like paul soliai. NT is becoming a very situational position when u have teams playing 3 wrs and or 2 tes on most downs. since your nickel coverages u end up with 4 downlineman anyways you might as well build from 4-3 personal to begin with. not to mention the fact u absolutely need a very good NT and 2 outstanding OLB to make the 3-4 fly. its not easy to fill those 3 holes adequately.

i dont know for sure. but i think belicheck looked at his team and realized he just didnt have the ammo at OLB to make it work the way he wanted to, AND realized hes in nickel 70% of the time anyways. might as well find some lineman that can penetrate because ill be able to use them all 4 downs. in addition nothing disrupts a quarterback more than pressure right up the middle. by the end of the year that haynesworth acquisition is going to be highway robbery just like Moss was the year he came over

You are spot on. It is like I tried to say in another thread. We suddenly seem to have got that our offense was "old school" but we are still 1990's in the way we look at defense. We get two good corners and we are overjoyed when we should start looking for the 3rd and 4th.

On passing downs we put in our OLBs as DEs and our slow DEs as DTs.

I remember when the best thing about the Saban teams were the 10 man rotation we had on the DL. We WORE out OL trying to play against us.