Pennington's Too Good For "Our" Own Good!!!...

[cashman34]

I was looking at a post in a Channing Crowder thread that I created the other day, and CK had a link that he put in to prove some fact to another poster in the conversation...

And shockingly there were quite a few things that I noticed that escaped my attention previously:

* Our tackling in the Playoff game was marginal at best, which is something that you would expect to be a strength on a Sparano/Parcells molded team...Lots of defenders missed tackles on some key plays, players that I thought were usually solid defenders, such as Yeremiah Bell to name one surprise...

* Some of the design or execution was suspect at key moments...Take the end-around to Ginn Jr...Now I think the play had potential, if we get that handoff to Ted clean, he has an excellent chance of reaching the corner before the Raven's defenders could get a hand on him...a 1st down at mininmum I'm sure...

Henning goes "unbalanced" on the line to give the impression of running right, Jake Long lines up next to Carey and you bring the TE in motion to the right as well...that's 4 blockers to the right of the C, leaving only 2 blockers to the left side to hold the flood gates closed for a "really long" handoff against a really aggressive, intelligent defense...

Now the ball snaps and what happens?...the LG pulls right also!...Huh?!!!

Leaving 1 against 3 playside, and Chad is so quickly pressured that he is almost tackled before the handoff can be extended...so I would be interested in knowing if they really expected the 1 blocker left playside and the C (who also had monstrous NT Ngata in his face) to pick up 3 blitzers?...Is that by design (it was supposed to be done that way) or was it poor execution (the LG pulled the wrong way)?...

* But the thing that I saw that I am the most torn about is the lack of the dynamic play ability of Chad to get the ball deep after holding the defense short...On the deep play that Reed pick 6's, Ginn had the defender beat!...Chad did a good job of being patient and allowing the play to develop, but just doesn't have the mustard in his shoulder/arm to make that play, that was absolutely open IMO...

Pennington gets that ball downfield and to the sideline and Ginn has a very good chance of pulling it in, or at least knocking it harmlessly out of bounds...

Now this is not a "bash Chad" thread at all, in fact, I am on record as saying that I reserve passing judgement on his "decision making" that day until we can keep him upright long enough to properly do his job...

I feel this is a case of a QB doing the right thing by working the "short-game" to draw the defense up, then letting it fly deep...

He accomplished the 1st part of the play pretty good, but that pass was horrific...Most football enthusiasts know that you can't throw a ball up there like that with a 2nd or even 3rd rate S roaming the secondary, much less a future HOF like Reed...I think that Chad's intentions/instincts were right, he just doesn't have the arm strength to make that play...

I would be interested in knowing exactly where the line is drawn for the coaching staff in determining whether an excellent "game manager" like Pennington or a more lethal "dynamic strong armed" QB like Henne would actually take this offense to the next level?...

It was the offense as a whole, IMO, that mailed it in and let us down...Yes our defense needs to improve (as I previously said with the missed tackles and such), there is no question about that, but the defense had us in the game close enough that with a little pressure (points) from the offense, who knows what could have happened.

When does this coaching staff make the determination that the more dynamic QB option, that rest assured will make more mistakes than the accomplished Field General, could possibly be worth the risk because of the "big play" potential that Henne has?...

Or do they determine it to be better to continue the improvement of the O-Line and protect one of the most accurate and consistent QB's the NFL has ever seen?...

IMO, I say you build the line and make it better, give Pennington the chance to continue to develop with this young offense and have Henne continue to observe from the sideline...

The only drawback to that is we as fans will not see the true value in a player like Ginn until we can get the ball deep down field at the last possible moment...Ginn is the type player to allow a defender to pace(run) with him, then just accelerate away from him once the ball is in the air...

On a play like that your QB needs more of a "quick strike" capability, a passer that can see the open window and throw the ball with such velocity that the safety in coverage can't really get to the hashes to help the beaten CB on the play...But Pennington's deep passes have a tendency to hang in the air, and that is easy pickings for a ballhawk like Reed...

So what do you do?...I guess it's gonna be easy to spot the mindset of the braintrust next season...Are they "Gamblers" or "Conservatives"?...that's the million dollar question!

Go Phins!

 

[Skree]

I was looking at a post in a Channing Crowder thread that I created the other day, and CK had a link that he put in to prove some fact to another poster in the conversation...

And shockingly there were quite a few things that I noticed that escaped my attention previously:

* Our tackling in the Playoff game was marginal at best, which is something that you would expect to be a strength on a Sparano/Parcells molded team...Lots of defenders missed tackles on some key plays, players that I thought were usually solid defenders, such as Yeremiah Bell to name one surprise...

* Some of the design or execution was suspect at key moments...Take the end-around to Ginn Jr...Now I think the play had potential, if we get that handoff to Ted clean, he has an excellent chance of reaching the corner before the Raven's defenders could get a hand on him...a 1st down at mininmum I'm sure...

Henning goes "unbalanced" on the line to give the impression of running right, Jake Long lines up next to Carey and you bring the TE in motion to the right as well...that's 4 blockers to the right of the C, leaving only 2 blockers to the left side to hold the flood gates closed for a "really long" handoff against a really aggressive, intelligent defense...

Now the ball snaps and what happens?...the LG pulls right also!...Huh?!!!

Leaving 1 against 3 playside, and Chad is so quickly pressured that he is almost tackled before the handoff can be extended...so I would be interested in knowing if they really expected the 1 blocker left playside and the C (who also had monstrous NT Ngata in his face) to pick up 3 blitzers?...Is that by design (it was supposed to be done that way) or was it poor execution (the LG pulled the wrong way)?...

* But the thing that I saw that I am the most torn about is the lack of the dynamic play ability of Chad to get the ball deep after holding the defense short...On the deep play that Reed pick 6's, Ginn had the defender beat!...Chad did a good job of being patient and allowing the play to develop, but just doesn't have the mustard in his shoulder/arm to make that play, that was absolutely open IMO...

Pennington gets that ball downfield and to the sideline and Ginn has a very good chance of pulling it in, or at least knocking it harmlessly out of bounds...

Now this is not a "bash Chad" thread at all, in fact, I am on record as saying that I reserve passing judgement on his "decision making" that day until we can keep him upright long enough to properly do his job...

I feel this is a case of a QB doing the right thing by working the "short-game" to draw the defense up, then letting it fly deep...

He accomplished the 1st part of the play pretty good, but that pass was horrific...Most football enthusiasts know that you can't throw a ball up there like that with a 2nd or even 3rd rate S roaming the secondary, much less a future HOF like Reed...I think that Chad's intentions/instincts were right, he just doesn't have the arm strength to make that play...

I would be interested in knowing exactly where the line is drawn for the coaching staff in determining whether an excellent "game manager" like Pennington or a more lethal "dynamic strong armed" QB like Henne would actually take this offense to the next level?...

It was the offense as a whole, IMO, that mailed it in and let us down...Yes our defense needs to improve (as I previously said with the missed tackles and such), there is no question about that, but the defense had us in the game close enough that with a little pressure (points) from the offense, who knows what could have happened.

When does this coaching staff make the determination that the more dynamic QB option, that rest assured will make more mistakes than the accomplished Field General, could possibly be worth the risk because of the "big play" potential that Henne has?...

Or do they determine it to be better to continue the improvement of the O-Line and protect one of the most accurate and consistent QB's the NFL has ever seen?...

IMO, I say you build the line and make it better, give Pennington the chance to continue to develop with this young offense and have Henne continue to observe from the sideline...

The only drawback to that is we as fans will not see the true value in a player like Ginn until we can get the ball deep down field at the last possible moment...Ginn is the type player to allow a defender to pace(run) with him, then just accelerate away from him once the ball is in the air...

On a play like that your QB needs more of a "quick strike" capability, a passer that can see the open window and throw the ball with such velocity that the safety in coverage can't really get to the hashes to help the beaten CB on the play...But Pennington's deep passes have a tendency to hang in the air, and that is easy pickings for a ballhawk like Reed...

So what do you do?...I guess it's gonna be easy to spot the mindset of the braintrust next season...Are they "Gamblers" or "Conservatives"?...that's the million dollar question!

Go Phins!

Not 100% sure I understand the thread tittle. I think most coaches, especially the smart ones (not the Jests) will go with the game manager over the gunslinger any day.

Sparano already said Penny was next years QB. I dunno if that means the job is his to loose in competition or if it means it's his until he collapses. I think it means the job is his barring a Major drop in performance or injury.

As far at the brain-trust I'm 100% sure they are conservative. Meaning they will go with Penny and will strengthen the OL so that the "more firepower" Parcels talked about comes from the R & R express running the football. I think changing the OL coach was a strong indicator of that.

I'm all for making our running game/OL stronger, let Henne cook for another year (or till Penny gets hurt). Strengthening our running game/OL does several things for us.

1) It makes your defence better. The best defence is the 1 standing on the sideline cheering on Ronnie and Ricky to 100 yard games each rushing. Dominating time of possession ='s a well rested defence. (see 1st NE game)

2) Once the running game is well established, it will take a lot of pressure off any new QB coming into the offence.

3) If the OL is solidified it will give any QB more time. And we have all seen that with just a little more time Penny can be very good for us. Any QB will.

4) Less chance of a QB injury. And that goes for any QB that's back there. All players are just 1 tackle away from a career ending injury.

5) A strong OL gives the Offensive Coordinator/Coaches more options as to what they can do. Much easier to keep a defence on it's heals with more options.

 

[3rdandinches]

How do you know "more fire power" doesn't mean Henne at QB. TS said Chad is the starter, that means lots of things. Like don't bring this up again, A Chad will be the starter, Penny the starter now but that means nothing until the kickoff of the first game.

I'm not saying Henne will be the starter but believing exactly what someone says isn't always the best idea, sometimes they only tell half truths to get people to think the way they want you to right at that moment.

BP usually favours vets to very young QB's anyways, but cashman34 really has a good point that we truely won't get the max out of this offense until Henne is ready to stand in the pocket. That's not a shot at Penny, it's more of a realistic view point. Until that happens we need to shore up the Oline and pass rush to give Penny the greatest chance of success with his skill sets.

 

[JimToss]

I don't really understand what point you are trying to make, kind of disjointed. A good amount of good info in the article though. I really liked the end around analysis, which I was not aware of.

I think it is this simple. We develop a consistent running game, like a true smash mouth team, and I think we can all forget about this arm strength/game manager debate. But, for right now our QB is Penny and we need both appreciate that and have enough faith in our FO to put the right guy on the field.

 

[cashman34]

Not 100% sure I understand the thread tittle. I think most coaches, especially the smart ones (not the Jests) will go with the game manager over the gunslinger any day.

I know the title might throw you off if you don't understand what was meant. The point of the title was to show my conflicting feelings about having the best QB in our lineup since #13 hung 'em up...

It's obvious that Chad is a rock solid leader and perhaps enjoyed the best season of his career this year. But there is still a part of me that says that we will never get where we need to with those "shotput" passes that he throws at times (in fairness, more so on the deep ball).

I think that in order to get to a Super Bowl, at some point it will entale going through a tough, physical, smart defense like the Ravens have...there is always one (defensive team) in every playoff series. And the way you beat a defense like that is "big plays"...the reason why this holds true, is because the team with that Top 5 defense usually got there because they "generally" shut you down on average...

So the chances of you consistently driving down the field with success against defenses like those, isn't in your favor...but it only takes one play to make a difference in a game!

So Chad's inability to make the defense pay for sitting on the underneath routes actually works against him...His experience gives him the edge, as far as knowing where and when to throw it...but he doesn't have the firepower to make the defense pay "deep"!

So that, for better or worse, is the reason that I said he is "too good for our own good"!

He is playing too well to want him out of the lineup, and his "weaknesses" don't really show until we get up against a defense that can react to his slightly slower ball velocity...a true Catch 22!

Go Phins!