Perspective - Brees or Culpepper

[false_start]

My opinion, and we are all entitled to one, is that we should get Culpepper if we can get him for a conditional draft pick, preferably 2007.

Why? Well he knows the system and he has a cannon arm, which is perfectly suited to the deep passing game we are trying to put in. He had one bad season but I would be prepared to let that go due to the offensive changes and lack of running game. Sure Johnson came in and results improved, but there was also a massive improvement on the defense.

I would not be concerned at all about the love boat - he is a young man who made a mistake. I don't hear many people saying we should dump McMichael after he allegedly struck his wife (twice I believe).

His knee will recover and whilst he may not be as much of a rushing threat as before he will still be able to move in the pocket. With less rushing there will be less fumbles.

Brees has some attraction, mainly that he is a free agent and that he is a good game manager. His injury risk is much greater however. He may fully recover, but do we really mortgage the franchise on that assumption; I think not. He never had a great arm in the first place. It was also the case that he never really started until he had a viable threat behind him in Rivers. There is no doubt he has more to offer than Gus, but the economics don't make sense to me.

One other factor is that Daunte clearly wants to be a Dolphin, Drew is posturing over cash. Not to say that Culpepper may not as well of course.

If we were offered both QB's, without injury, and no compensation by way of draft picks, and similar salaries I would say most people would have the same conclusion - CULPEPPER is the MAN!

 

[The Confessor]

If we were offered both QB's, without injury, and no compensation by way of draft picks, and similar salaries I would say most people would have the same conclusion - CULPEPPER is the MAN!

Uhhh-no

EDIT: But very nice post-hard to believe it is your first, in fact much better than many that have been here for years.

 

[slyfox13]

My opinion, and we are all entitled to one, is that we should get Culpepper if we can get him for a conditional draft pick, preferably 2007.

Why? Well he knows the system and he has a cannon arm, which is perfectly suited to the deep passing game we are trying to put in. He had one bad season but I would be prepared to let that go due to the offensive changes and lack of running game. Sure Johnson came in and results improved, but there was also a massive improvement on the defense.

I would not be concerned at all about the love boat - he is a young man who made a mistake. I don't hear many people saying we should dump McMichael after he allegedly struck his wife (twice I believe).

His knee will recover and whilst he may not be as much of a rushing threat as before he will still be able to move in the pocket. With less rushing there will be less fumbles.

Brees has some attraction, mainly that he is a free agent and that he is a good game manager. His injury risk is much greater however. He may fully recover, but do we really mortgage the franchise on that assumption; I think not. He never had a great arm in the first place. It was also the case that he never really started until he had a viable threat behind him in Rivers. There is no doubt he has more to offer than Gus, but the economics don't make sense to me.

One other factor is that Daunte clearly wants to be a Dolphin, Drew is posturing over cash. Not to say that Culpepper may not as well of course.

If we were offered both QB's, without injury, and no compensation by way of draft picks, and similar salaries I would say most people would have the same conclusion - CULPEPPER is the MAN!

Welcome Aboard And you are absolutely right! Check there stats,and compare the talent these guys had around them>>>>>>>>>>>>>dont forget it was daunte who delivered the ball to moss.what has moss got done without culpepper>HMMMMMMM!:cooldude:

 

[jguig]

If we were offered both QB's, without injury, and no compensation by way of draft picks, and similar salaries I would say most people would have the same conclusion - CULPEPPER is the MAN!

But the reality is:

1) DC had all 3 ligaments in his knee shredded
2) We aren't allowed to give the guy a medical examination
3) Trading for a QB who can't play will leave us without a QB and the high draft pick we need to find a QB
4) We don't even have a backup QB right now since Sage is gone and presumably, Gus will also leave

Your last sentence doesn't have a foundation in reality. Both the QBs (Brees and DC) had serious injuries. The only thing we know is Brees is ahead of schedule. Compensation for either will be hefty. We need to get the most value for our investment. Don't be surprised if we actually end up with neither of these guys.

 

[false_start]

But the reality is:

1) DC had all 3 ligaments in his knee shredded
2) We aren't allowed to give the guy a medical examination
3) Trading for a QB who can't play will leave us without a QB and the high draft pick we need to find a QB
4) We don't even have a backup QB right now since Sage is gone and presumably, Gus will also leave

Your last sentence doesn't have a foundation in reality. Both the QBs (Brees and DC) had serious injuries. The only thing we know is Brees is ahead of schedule. Compensation for either will be hefty. We need to get the most value for our investment. Don't be surprised if we actually end up with neither of these guys.

I agree there is a good chance we will get neither. Probably greater than 50%. I also agree with your points on Culpepper.

But my point was - if we had to choose between either of these two, and providing the level of compensation was right for the Dolphins (salary and picks) I would go with Culpepper. He is a difference maker. Brees is not in the same class of a fit DC.

Everybody says Moss made Culpepper. I think they were a good fit for each other. I also think Chambers would blossom hugely with a guy who can throw the accurate deep pass that we haven't had since DM. Brees has no better arm than Fiedler.

And I don't agree with not being prepared to give up draft pick(s). Everyone is clamouring for a QB in the draft, whether in the 1st or later. Why spend a pick on a rookie if you can get a Pro Bowler for probably less than a 1st rounder.

Assuming the knee is going to be OK, and that is a big assumption I know, you have to go with DC. Other guys have returned from similar injuries and went on to be stars. Culpepper is a big strong athlete and I really don't see a problem.

 

[The Confessor]

Everybody says Moss made Culpepper. I think they were a good fit for each other. I also think Chambers would blossom hugely with a guy who can throw the accurate deep pass that we haven't had since DM.

I have a tough time with this. The guy had 6 Td's compared to 12 ints.... Those are tough numbers to look at no matter what the circumstances.
He also has 81 fumbles in as many games played.
Pepp wont be able to play till like week 6 at best? and the vikes reportedly want a 2nd rounder for him....:shakeno:

 

[false_start]

I have a tough time with this. The guy had 6 Td's compared to 12 ints.... Those are tough numbers to look at no matter what the circumstances.
He also has 81 fumbles in as many games played.
Pepp wont be able to play till like week 6 at best? and the vikes reportedly want a 2nd rounder for him....:shakeno:

Eight of the picks were in two games.

RW also fumbles a lot. If he rushes less he will fumble less.

 

[The Confessor]

Eight of the picks were in two games.
RW also fumbles a lot. If he rushes less he will fumble less.

....and throw more int's?

If you take his mobility away, he is no better than Kerry Collins at twice the price

 

[njfinfan]

Quite true

Compensation for either will be hefty.

As a matter of fact, they just mentioned what NO is willing to give and Miami is not for Brees on ESPN2. $10 million GUARANTEED money.

 

[LarryFinFan]

Welcome aboard...

There have been at least 50 or 60 threads on the same subject in the last two weeks...please read some of them to get other perspectives and feel free to add to them and bring them back up...but there really wasn't a need to start another thread....unfortuneately, you really didn't say anything that others have said...

For my money, all things equal...I'd take Brees over Culpepper for two reasons...character...not just the love boat episode, but the locker room dissention he's been a part of, complaining about his contract (which is not a bad contract), etc....and second due to his age...Brees is 2 years younger. Both have done well on the field. Fit to the system is a weak argument. I would guess that there is one other advantage to Brees and that is cost. Culp. will cost us the same in salary and a high draft pick, that we can ill-afford to give up....

 

[false_start]

Welcome aboard...

There have been at least 50 or 60 threads on the same subject in the last two weeks...please read some of them to get other perspectives and feel free to add to them and bring them back up...but there really wasn't a need to start another thread....unfortuneately, you really didn't say anything that others have said...

For my money, all things equal...I'd take Brees over Culpepper for two reasons...character...not just the love boat episode, but the locker room dissention he's been a part of, complaining about his contract (which is not a bad contract), etc....and second due to his age...Brees is 2 years younger. Both have done well on the field. Fit to the system is a weak argument. I would guess that there is one other advantage to Brees and that is cost. Culp. will cost us the same in salary and a high draft pick, that we can ill-afford to give up....

Apologies for starting another "Brees or Culpepper" thread, however as a long time Dolphin fan living in Scotland I was wanting to make my point and seek some attention at the same time!

To be honest, if you prefer Brees over Culpepper, as many seem to do, then that is fine. He is certainly better than Gus. However I don't understand two things that many people argue about:

1) Injuries - lets be realistic, if these guys were both fit we would have to trade for them as no way we would get them as FA, or in Culpeppers case, a lower pick than what he is worth. Also, I would be prepared to risk more on the knee injury than the throwing shoulder.

2) I don't get the argument about picks. If we get neither guy we may take a shot at someone in the draft, for instance let's say Leinart dropped to us. Then we take probably the college equivalent of Brees with a first round pick,
who has never played an NFL game and would need a minimum of one, but probably two years to get ready. Or we give Minny a conditional draft choice, based on performance (and that is the only way I make the trade anyway), for a proven Pro Bowl QB, in his prime, with at least 7 seasons in front of him. Jeez, Moon played till he was like forty!

 

[theFreak41]

Both players come with risks. Both are injured, but both could make the Dolphins legitimate contenders. I'm not worried about Brees' arm strength in proportion to our system. It would be up to our system to adjust to his limitiations, not the other way around. Brees makes us a very good team. This is a guy who can deliver the ball and is very good at taking advantage of what he has around him. Ronnie Brown, Michael Booker, and especially Randy McMichael provide him legitimate targets.

Conversely, Cullpepper would cost us a bit more (around the same money, plus a draft pick) but has the better arm. That would surely benefit Chris Chambers. One of his strengths is his ability to run, and given his size that's an astounding thing. IMO, he needs polish on his game. This is a guy who's never had to master the underneath game, and has never had the players who'd benefit from it anyways.

It is my thinking that, if Brees' shoulder is fine, he's the better fit here. We're at our best when we pick people apart, not neccessarily going for the home run every time down. I'd be more comfortable starting Drew Brees than Daunte Cullpepper, but I won't complain about either. Both come with risk and major potential to salvage this team.

As long as we get one of these guys, I'm a happy man, but if Cullpepper really can't play for 6 weeks, then Brees is by far the better fit...

 

[tartan y fronts]

Apologies for starting another "Brees or Culpepper" thread, however as a long time Dolphin fan living in Scotland I was wanting to make my point and seek some attention at the same time!

To be honest, if you prefer Brees over Culpepper, as many seem to do, then that is fine. He is certainly better than Gus. However I don't understand two things that many people argue about:

1) Injuries - lets be realistic, if these guys were both fit we would have to trade for them as no way we would get them as FA, or in Culpeppers case, a lower pick than what he is worth. Also, I would be prepared to risk more on the knee injury than the throwing shoulder.

2) I don't get the argument about picks. If we get neither guy we may take a shot at someone in the draft, for instance let's say Leinart dropped to us. Then we take probably the college equivalent of Brees with a first round pick,
who has never played an NFL game and would need a minimum of one, but probably two years to get ready. Or we give Minny a conditional draft choice, based on performance (and that is the only way I make the trade anyway), for a proven Pro Bowl QB, in his prime, with at least 7 seasons in front of him. Jeez, Moon played till he was like forty!

Hey. Good to see another Scottish Fin :)

your argument about injuries is correct in that a knee isn't as bad as a shoulder, but given that we can't check DC's injury we have to err on the side of caution. its a lower risk if we're in possession of all of the facts, but why won't the Vikes let us check him out?

i think you're right that DC is more of a playmaker, but he's also far more of a bonehead.... i want a smart QB.

 

[prolific]

My opinion, and we are all entitled to one, is that we should get Culpepper if we can get him for a conditional draft pick, preferably 2007.

Why? Well he knows the system and he has a cannon arm, which is perfectly suited to the deep passing game we are trying to put in. He had one bad season but I would be prepared to let that go due to the offensive changes and lack of running game. Sure Johnson came in and results improved, but there was also a massive improvement on the defense.

I would not be concerned at all about the love boat - he is a young man who made a mistake. I don't hear many people saying we should dump McMichael after he allegedly struck his wife (twice I believe).

His knee will recover and whilst he may not be as much of a rushing threat as before he will still be able to move in the pocket. With less rushing there will be less fumbles.

Brees has some attraction, mainly that he is a free agent and that he is a good game manager. His injury risk is much greater however. He may fully recover, but do we really mortgage the franchise on that assumption; I think not. He never had a great arm in the first place. It was also the case that he never really started until he had a viable threat behind him in Rivers. There is no doubt he has more to offer than Gus, but the economics don't make sense to me.

One other factor is that Daunte clearly wants to be a Dolphin, Drew is posturing over cash. Not to say that Culpepper may not as well of course.

If we were offered both QB's, without injury, and no compensation by way of draft picks, and similar salaries I would say most people would have the same conclusion - CULPEPPER is the MAN!

***Very good post, I wont try to sugarcoat 05, Daunte had a bad year but they lost two offensive lineman, his best receiver and O coordinator. That's alot of change in one offseason. In his last three games he was actually starting to turn it around before the injury, and if you believe media reports he is well ahead of schedule.

People want to pretend that a shoulder injury is no big deal but ask Chad and Tim Couch who is still recovering arm strength.

Look at it this way the Phins are offering him a chance to earn about 10mil a year provided he plays. If he was confident the arm wouldn't be a problem why not sign the deal and earn the money? It says to me that he nor the FO are completely confident in his shoulder because if they were he would have been a phin by now. ***

 

[false_start]

***Very good post, I wont try to sugarcoat 05, Daunte had a bad year but they lost two offensive lineman, his best receiver and O coordinator. That's alot of change in one offseason. In his last three games he was actually starting to turn it around before the injury, and if you believe media reports he is well ahead of schedule.

People want to pretend that a shoulder injury is no big deal but ask Chad and Tim Couch who is still recovering arm strength.

Look at it this way the Phins are offering him a chance to earn about 10mil a year provided he plays. If he was confident the arm wouldn't be a problem why not sign the deal and earn the money? It says to me that he nor the FO are completely confident in his shoulder because if they were he would have been a phin by now. ***

There is plenty of evidence of people coming back from knee injuries, even severe ones. There is less proof about shoulder issues. You cite two examples.

If you can get him for a conditional pick then you do the deal. If not, keep Gus and draft the best value QB in whatever round. Only my opinion.