Perspective... Tua/Herbert VS Elway/Marino | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Perspective... Tua/Herbert VS Elway/Marino

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For those freaking out about Tua and feeling like we should have gone with Herbert... consider the following for a little PERSPECTIVE from an old-timer:

In 1983 Dan Marino won the NFL Rookie of the Year award while Elway posted these stats in 11 starts (which can make for another interesting comparison for those who are paying attention):

1663 Total Yards - 47.5 Comp. Pct. - 6.4 YPC - 7 TD - 14 INT

Yikes... even for the 80's. Just yikes. And like so many people back then I was convinced that we had taken the right QB... the QB that would be taking us to Super Bowl after Super Bowl, victory after victory. And sure enough... the very next year Marino shatters the record books with 48 TDs and over 5,000 yards passing and a SB appearance while Elway does this:

2598 Total Yards - 56.3 Comp. Pct. - 6.8 YPC - 18 TD - 15 INT

But with all due respect to Dan Marino, in retrospect, like many fans... I slowly came to hear all the stories of what an a$$hole and what a megalomaniac he was and how his teammates often clashed with him and some outright didn't like him. And if you don't think that makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE on a team then you haven't played competitive team sports. Meanwhile, Elway took his lumps alongside his Denver teammates and in just three years they were playing in Super Bowls. Meanwhile, Miami became a one-trick pony that resembled a TEAM about as much as my Nissan Altima resembles a Ferrari. And that's the main point I would like to share with you younger fans. This is a TEAM sport. TEAMS win Super Bowls. As good as Mahomes is he never would have beaten the Niners if KCs defense didn't get its act together during the second half of last year and continue bringing IT throughout the playoffs. Nor would KC be as formidable without a balanced attack, i.e. a good running game. So, look, I don't blame Marino entirely for Miami's lack of success in the 80's and 90's. He never really had a game breaking running back and he suffered through some of the worst defenses ever to don a Dolphins uniform. But one thing that WAS ENTIRELY ON HIM... was his whole follow me, I'm the leader cause I'm so great tired a$$ attitude... as opposed to the cool collected TEAM CAPTAIN, show me-don't tell me LEADERSHIP of a John Elway... or a Joe Montana... or a Phil Simms... or a Jim Kelly... or... you get the point.

Now... I have no reason to suspect that Herbert is c0cky or arrogant or anything like that. Quite the opposite. I like Herbert. A lot. And would have been happy if we had drafted him. But I also like Tua. A lot. And am thrilled that we drafted him. Because I like his HEART. His HUMILITY. And his LEADERSHIP. He will do WHATEVER it takes for the TEAM to win. And he seems to care little about his "stats". And on a TEAM... that attitude is contagious and INSPIRING. This team has been playing out of its mind and way above its fighting weight. We're at least two or three skill players away on offense and at least one more solid LB, one pass rushing DE and one game-changing safety (Ed Reed type) away from year-to-year playoff contention and SB victory. But here we are... so close already in just the 2nd year of our rebuild.

So come on, people. Chill. Look at the LONG VIEW. Play the LONG GAME. Stop bailing on people when they are not "perfect". Don't fall in love with your "darlings" and don't jettison those who are figuring things out. You might be surprised one day with how great things can be when you stay the course and "Go with the Flo". 😁

FINS UP!
 
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Well said. **** Ryan Fitzpatrick. JK. I love the person Tua is and have hopes his play will improve dramatically with time.
 
John Elway is the greatest "sham" superstar ever.

Dude had as many TD's as he had INT's up until he was about 30 years old.

Next to Joe Namath, the two most overrated QB's of all time. In terms of the "elite" caliber of QB's.

Elway......hahahaha.
Perhaps Elway is a bit overrated. Perhaps. But two of his TEAMS all have Super Bowl victors rings. And he played in FIVE Super Bowls.. to Dan's 1... and a BAD loss at that. But my point - which you totally seem to have missed - is that I've been a fan of a team with a QB that put up gaudy stats like Herbert's this year. I would like to be - and am - a fan of a TEAM that plays hard and with heart FOR EACH OTHER. And I'm sure there are some Denver Bronco fans out there that are proud to have stood by Elway for so many years and grateful for the back to back SB victories where Elway definitely put his own ego aside to ride the coattails of a certain Terrell Davis. Something I don't think Marino was ever able to do. And my contention is that his teammates knew that... and, hence, were less than willing to "go to war" for him.
 
I guess for those who don't like Elway we don't want to respect the words of one of the all-time great, season MVP, and Super Bowl MVP teammates of his:

 
Marino played with fire! He believed he was the best and acted like it. Nothing wrong with that. Just his style. Tua should borrow some of that fire in his belly and grab Mack Hollins by the helmet when he drops that ball that hits him in the hands it wouldn't kill him.
 
Perhaps Elway is a bit overrated. Perhaps. But two of his TEAMS all have Super Bowl victors rings. And he played in FIVE Super Bowls.. to Dan's 1... and a BAD loss at that. But my point - which you totally seem to have missed - is that I've been a fan of a team with a QB that put up gaudy stats like Herbert's this year. I would like to be - and am - a fan of a TEAM that plays hard and with heart FOR EACH OTHER. And I'm sure there are some Denver Bronco fans out there that are proud to have stood by Elway for so many years and grateful for the back to back SB victories where Elway definitely put his own ego aside to ride the coattails of a certain Terrell Davis. Something I don't think Marino was ever able to do. And my contention is that his teammates knew that... and, hence, were less than willing to "go to war" for him.

I was just making a general, factual statement about Elway.

I wasn’t responding to the original post.

Just calling out Elway for not being nearly as good a QB as his legacy would indicate.
 
I was just making a general, factual statement about Elway.

I wasn’t responding to the original post.

Just calling out Elway for not being nearly as good a QB as his legacy would indicate.
Fair enough. I was never wowed by Elway either... as a player. A very good QB, but not great or "elite".

But as a person, a leader, I liked him and imagined his teammates faught hard alongside him.
 
Marino played with fire! He believed he was the best and acted like it. Nothing wrong with that. Just his style. Tua should borrow some of that fire in his belly and grab Mack Hollins by the helmet when he drops that ball that hits him in the hands it wouldn't kill him.
He (Tua) can channel some of that fire, for sure. But leave the ego behind. Even Marino today acknowledges that he was his own worst enemy at times.
 
He (Tua) can channel some of that fire, for sure. But leave the ego behind. Even Marino today acknowledges that he was his own worst enemy at times.
I am a Marino fan, and I believe he is the best QB ever BUT not even the best Head Coach could win a Super Bowl with him.

So the question is, do you want the best QB and no super bowl or a right handed Montana and win Super Bowls.

I prefer to see Montana and win games instead of watch the best QB and lose games.

This team is built on defense, building the offensive line, next step is running the ball and have a great QB that is going to manage the team and win championships.
The QB that big games are not going to be big for them, will not make the mistake to lose games.

Tua is the perfect QB for what Flores want to build in Miami.

Go Dolphins
 
For those freaking out about Tua and feeling like we should have gone with Herbert... consider the following for a little PERSPECTIVE from an old-timer:

In 1983 Dan Marino won the NFL Rookie of the Year award while Elway posted these stats in 11 starts (which can make for another interesting comparison for those who are paying attention):

1663 Total Yards - 47.5 Comp. Pct. - 6.4 YPC - 7 TD - 14 INT

Yikes... even for the 80's. Just yikes. And like so many people back then I was convinced that we had taken the right QB... the QB that would be taking us to Super Bowl after Super Bowl, victory after victory. And sure enough... the very next year Marino shatters the record books with 48 TDs and over 5,000 yards passing and a SB appearance while Elway does this:

2598 Total Yards - 56.3 Comp. Pct. - 6.8 YPC - 18 TD - 15 INT

But with all due respect to Dan Marino, in retrospect, like many fans... I slowly came to hear all the stories of what an a$$hole and what a megalomaniac he was and how his teammates often clashed with him and some outright didn't like him. And if you don't think that makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE on a team then you haven't played competitive team sports. Meanwhile, Elway took his lumps alongside his Denver teammates and in just three years they were playing in Super Bowls. Meanwhile, Miami became a one-trick pony that resembled a TEAM about as much as my Nissan Altima resembles a Ferrari. And that's the main point I would like to share with you younger fans. This is a TEAM sport. TEAMS win Super Bowls. As good as Mahomes is he never would have beaten the Niners if KCs defense didn't get its act together during the second half of last year and continue bringing IT throughout the playoffs. Nor would KC be as formidable without a balanced attack, i.e. a good running game. So, look, I don't blame Marino entirely for Miami's lack of success in the 80's and 90's. He never really had a game breaking running back and he suffered through some of the worst defenses ever to don a Dolphins uniform. But one thing that WAS ENTIRELY ON HIM... was his whole follow me, I'm the leader cause I'm so great tired a$$ attitude... as opposed to the cool collected TEAM CAPTAIN, show me-don't tell me LEADERSHIP of a John Elway... or a Joe Montana... or a Phil Simms... or a Jim Kelly... or... you get the point.

Now... I have no reason to suspect that Herbert is c0cky or arrogant or anything like that. Quite the opposite. I like Herbert. A lot. And would have been happy if we had drafted him. But I also like Tua. A lot. And am thrilled that we drafted him. Because I like his HEART. His HUMILITY. And his LEADERSHIP. He will do WHATEVER it takes for the TEAM to win. And he seems to care little about his "stats". And on a TEAM... that attitude is contagious and INSPIRING. This team has been playing out of its mind and way above its fighting weight. We're at least two or three skill players away on offense and at least one more solid LB, one pass rushing DE and one game-changing safety (Ed Reed type) away from year-to-year playoff contention and SB victory. But here we are... so close already in just the 2nd year of our rebuild.

So come on, people. Chill. Look at the LONG VIEW. Play the LONG GAME. Stop bailing on people when they are not "perfect". Don't fall in love with your "darlings" and don't jettison those who are figuring things out. You might be surprised one day with how great things can be when you stay the course and "Go with the Flo". 😁

FINS UP!
What? You are on FH painting a picture of Marino being an A Hole and Elway being a kind magnanimous leader? What aisle in Home Depot did you buy the wallpaper paste you are doing lines of?
 
John Elway is the greatest "sham" superstar ever.

Dude had as many TD's as he had INT's up until he was about 30 years old.

Next to Joe Namath, the two most overrated QB's of all time. In terms of the "elite" caliber of QB's.

Elway......hahahaha.
Funny. I’ve always felt the same. Not many people agree with that take.
 
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