PFW: Drafting Merling & Langford = a message to Holliday, not JT | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

PFW: Drafting Merling & Langford = a message to Holliday, not JT

Green Phin

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In its weekly 'Whispers' section, PFW states that "We’re hearing that the Dolphins’ new regime sent a clear message to DE Vonnie Holliday when they drafted DEs Phillip Merling and Kendall Langford in the second and third rounds, respectively. Namely, “You better start performing a heck of a lot better.” Holliday is the most talented defensive lineman on the team (operating under the assumption Jason Taylor is playing outside linebacker), but he has been an underachiever and is injury-prone.


It’s becoming clear that the Dolphins’ Week One starter will either be Josh McCown or John Beck, not second-round draft pick Chad Henne. Henne had a miserable conclusion to minicamp, showing lapses in judgment and throwing errant passes."

I think Roth is in a more tenuous position than Holliday, although I don't see Vonnie here for more than a year unless he plays very well this season.
 
The way I see it, the two biggest missing pieces to the 2007 defense were Kevin Carter and David Bowens. I mean yes, obviously having Zach injured most of the year hurt as well...but in terms of the planning, the personnel on the roster...the biggest pure mistakes on D probably ended up being allowing David Bowens to walk and cutting Kevin Carter. Their roles on the team were handed to Joey Porter and Matt Roth, and the net effect was such a downgrade that it was a big achilles heel all season.

To counter that, the Dolphins have selected Kendall Langford, who is like another Kevin Carter, and Phil Merling, who is like another David Bowens. They will fill the void left by those two personnel mistakes.
 
I don't see the draft picks so much as a message to Holiday as it is simply a change in scheme. Everywhere Parcells goes he installs the 34, and it wouldn't have mattered if Holiday had been a Pro Bowler last season, Parcells was still going to implement the 34. Holiday isn't a great fit in the 34, but he can play DE there, particularly towards the end of his career.

While I sort of agree with CK that letting Carter and to a lesser extent Bowens go definitely hurt our defense last season; I also think that there comes a time when you need to stop relying on over the hill veterans. The decision was made to go with Traylor and Holiday at the expense of Carter ... in retrospect we should have kept Carter. I was worried about that one before last season even started, and it proved problematic. As far as Bowens, I thought he was expendable, but it would have been nice to have him to start the season. Regarding Porter, I think he proved to be a fine pickup despite the fact he was tarred and feathered by the fans and media. He was injured early and took a while to adjust to a 43 role, but towards the end of the season he really was a difference maker on a team devoid of them.

I think the defense was built around 2 things, 1) stout DT's to keep the linemen off of Zach Thomas, and 2) Zach Thomas' ability to diagnose the play, get in position to make the play, and actually make the play. The problems were that we lost one of our best DT's, Carter, and the NT, Traylor, just didn't have enough gas left in the tank to play many downs, and we didn't have adequate backups at either position. Roth was injured and didn't fare well as an starter. Wright, Soliai, etc. just didn't do enough last year (particularly a guy I was high on, Soliai). And of course, without Zach, we lacked any MLB who could become the focal point of our team. Channing Crowder is a journeyman at best.

These draft picks weren't sending a message to Holiday. They were sending a message to everyone in the NFL. That message was that Parcells is going to rebuild the Dolphins just like he did at every other stop in the division except Buffalo, and with the same people in charge that he had in Dallas. We're going to be a 34 team, and if the players can fit into those round holes, fine, if not, they will not be with the Dolphins very long. Holiday can squeeze his play into a round hole, but Roth is purely a square (43) peg.

Taylor is Parcells' prototypical 34 linebacker, and while he'd rather rebuild, its easy to see why he wants a monster like Taylor here to train the others, including Long.
 
I think David Bowens was the most overlooked man on the defense. He was the second-best down pass rusher on the team and the value in the guy that holds that title should not be under-estimated!

How often do teams put you into a nickel or dime set? Pretty often. One year I remember it was 52% of all defensive downs. When that happens, you've got to field a four-man line and they've got to be able to pass rush.

In 2005-06, what did we do when that happened? We had a good four-man line to fall back on. Kevin Carter slid into LDT, Vonnie Holliday slid into RDT, Jason Taylor came up from ROLB to RDE, and David Bowens would come onto the field at LDE. We had a stunting style that depended on chemistry, and these guys were smart, athletic and well-rounded enough to be outright dangerous. In 2005, those four combined for 30.0 sacks. In 2006, they combined for 31.0 sacks.

In 2007, the new cast of sackers, Jason Taylor, Vonnie Holliday, Joey Porter and Matt Roth...combined for 21.5 sacks. And, it should be kept in mind that after seeing what a complete failure it was in the first half of the year, by the New England game I believe Miami had stopped bothering to try and have Joey Porter replace David Bowens in these formations. Joey got all 5.5 of his sacks after he'd stopped playing in that role, as far as I know. From there Miami had a heck of a time trying to experiment with ways to get effectiveness out of a four-man unit. They had Rodrique Wright playing DT while Roth shifted back out to DE. They had Quentin Moses come out to DE. Chase Page was a failure whenever and wherever he played. Steven Fifita and Paul Soliai couldn't hold Jeff Zgonina's jock strap.

As much crap as Matt Roth takes for his bad showing in Kevin Carter's stead, really I think the loss of David Bowens was just as big, when you consider how Miami's inability to stop the run in 2007 truly exposed the loss of David Bowens rather than allowing them to cover for it. You NEED to be able to whip up a pass rush in passing situations. Why do you think we had such a terrible time in 3rd & Long situations?

This is why I see Phil Merling as being a direct replacement (and hopefully an upgrade) for what we were missing when we allowed David Bowens to walk. Kendall Langford can hopefully just be a better replacement for Kevin Carter than Matt Roth was.
 
Langford is a protypical Parcells guy - perfect fit - he has the size and ability. IMO it wouldn't matter who was on this roster - Langford being there was going to be the pick. BP loves DE more than any other position and he stockpiles there. I think Holliday and Langford are the front runners with RWright close behind. I think that is the 3 man rotation with Merling coming in as a pass rush guy as the season progresses. Not sure Merling will be healthy enough in camp to make a big impact to start. You have Ferguson and Starks at NT. Starks got alot of money so he is playing somewhere. Since we only have Ferguson in the middle it would seem Starks stays at NT.

It would seem Roth and Solai have uphill battles to make the team.
 
Messing with the defense especially the DL is in my mind was the undoing of Cam/Mueller. If they had left the defense alone like they impied they were and just added Joey Porter then I truly beleive they both would still be here today. We would have won a couple of more games and they would have been given some slack. I agree on both the Bowens and Carter statements and was posting that as a problem way back when. I also beleive something I did not touch on and very few others have but we also had a very good DL coach that Saban picked up that we let walk our of the final year of his contract which I am sure hurt. Many of those rookies we needed to contibute last year might have done so if he had stayed around.
 
Here is my thought how we could play:

Starters: DE Merling - NT Ferguson - DE Holliday

Rotation: DE Wright/Dotson - NT Starks/Toribio - DE Roth/Langford

Pretty good rotation on paper, this should keep the competition and our players fresh during the games and the 16 games season!

Merling and Roth have to gain at least 10+ pounds to play 3-4 DE!
 
I dont think the tape lies, ive been clamoring for a wwhile now that i would love to get rid of vonnie holliday, maybe they saw what i saw on film, someone not deserving of the money that they are getting paid, for some reason i do not trust vonnie holliday.
 
I dont think the tape lies, ive been clamoring for a wwhile now that i would love to get rid of vonnie holliday, maybe they saw what i saw on film, someone not deserving of the money that they are getting paid, for some reason i do not trust vonnie holliday.

Totally disagree - tough to get overly excited as a vet last year. Vonnie is a stud at DE. The problem is he was used at DT more than DE. He is a DE period. He was so out of place at DT it was ridiculous IMO. I couldn't stand that hybrid crap of a D. You wind up with tweeners all over the D line playing out of position in one of the formations. I hope they go 3-4 and that is it. I have no doubt VH will start at DE if healthy. He is the best DE we will have next year. Langford and Merling would be wise to learn from him. Just don't put him inside - what a waste. IMO he would have been just as good as KCarter at DE. It was a joke to sign both of them back then. Same position - only VH got screwed having to move inside even though KCarter was the bigger guy.
 
I think David Bowens was the most overlooked man on the defense. He was the second-best down pass rusher on the team and the value in the guy that holds that title should not be under-estimated!

How often do teams put you into a nickel or dime set? Pretty often. One year I remember it was 52% of all defensive downs. When that happens, you've got to field a four-man line and they've got to be able to pass rush.

In 2005-06, what did we do when that happened? We had a good four-man line to fall back on. Kevin Carter slid into LDT, Vonnie Holliday slid into RDT, Jason Taylor came up from ROLB to RDE, and David Bowens would come onto the field at LDE. We had a stunting style that depended on chemistry, and these guys were smart, athletic and well-rounded enough to be outright dangerous. In 2005, those four combined for 30.0 sacks. In 2006, they combined for 31.0 sacks.

In 2007, the new cast of sackers, Jason Taylor, Vonnie Holliday, Joey Porter and Matt Roth...combined for 21.5 sacks. And, it should be kept in mind that after seeing what a complete failure it was in the first half of the year, by the New England game I believe Miami had stopped bothering to try and have Joey Porter replace David Bowens in these formations. Joey got all 5.5 of his sacks after he'd stopped playing in that role, as far as I know. From there Miami had a heck of a time trying to experiment with ways to get effectiveness out of a four-man unit. They had Rodrique Wright playing DT while Roth shifted back out to DE. They had Quentin Moses come out to DE. Chase Page was a failure whenever and wherever he played. Steven Fifita and Paul Soliai couldn't hold Jeff Zgonina's jock strap.

As much crap as Matt Roth takes for his bad showing in Kevin Carter's stead, really I think the loss of David Bowens was just as big, when you consider how Miami's inability to stop the run in 2007 truly exposed the loss of David Bowens rather than allowing them to cover for it. You NEED to be able to whip up a pass rush in passing situations. Why do you think we had such a terrible time in 3rd & Long situations?

This is why I see Phil Merling as being a direct replacement (and hopefully an upgrade) for what we were missing when we allowed David Bowens to walk. Kendall Langford can hopefully just be a better replacement for Kevin Carter than Matt Roth was.
i agree 100 percent ck i never understood why bowens was not a starter whenever he came in he produced sacks.
 
I think David Bowens was the most overlooked man on the defense. He was the second-best down pass rusher on the team and the value in the guy that holds that title should not be under-estimated!

How often do teams put you into a nickel or dime set? Pretty often. One year I remember it was 52% of all defensive downs. When that happens, you've got to field a four-man line and they've got to be able to pass rush.

In 2005-06, what did we do when that happened? We had a good four-man line to fall back on. Kevin Carter slid into LDT, Vonnie Holliday slid into RDT, Jason Taylor came up from ROLB to RDE, and David Bowens would come onto the field at LDE. We had a stunting style that depended on chemistry, and these guys were smart, athletic and well-rounded enough to be outright dangerous. In 2005, those four combined for 30.0 sacks. In 2006, they combined for 31.0 sacks.

In 2007, the new cast of sackers, Jason Taylor, Vonnie Holliday, Joey Porter and Matt Roth...combined for 21.5 sacks. And, it should be kept in mind that after seeing what a complete failure it was in the first half of the year, by the New England game I believe Miami had stopped bothering to try and have Joey Porter replace David Bowens in these formations. Joey got all 5.5 of his sacks after he'd stopped playing in that role, as far as I know. From there Miami had a heck of a time trying to experiment with ways to get effectiveness out of a four-man unit. They had Rodrique Wright playing DT while Roth shifted back out to DE. They had Quentin Moses come out to DE. Chase Page was a failure whenever and wherever he played. Steven Fifita and Paul Soliai couldn't hold Jeff Zgonina's jock strap.

As much crap as Matt Roth takes for his bad showing in Kevin Carter's stead, really I think the loss of David Bowens was just as big, when you consider how Miami's inability to stop the run in 2007 truly exposed the loss of David Bowens rather than allowing them to cover for it. You NEED to be able to whip up a pass rush in passing situations. Why do you think we had such a terrible time in 3rd & Long situations?

This is why I see Phil Merling as being a direct replacement (and hopefully an upgrade) for what we were missing when we allowed David Bowens to walk. Kendall Langford can hopefully just be a better replacement for Kevin Carter than Matt Roth was.

Again, I didn't disagree with you really. You might consider re-reading my earlier post. If I gave you the message that I didn't value Bowens, then I didn't get my point accross. But, I think Carter was more valuable than Bowens to us. Here's a few more items to consider in the analysis:

You're looking at Bowens' production in a season that had Carter too, and since Carter is such a strong physical presence, that really takes a lot out of an OL going up against him, and guys like both Bowens and Roth benefitted from that. If you are looking at Bowens' production from 2006, I think it's also fair to look at Roth's production in 2006, which isn't that far behind Bowens to be honest.

And while we're looking at 2006, it probably bears mentioning that everyone was younger and we had a healhty Zach Thomas. Given that Traylor, Carter and Holiday--3 of our 4 DL guys in 2006--were all old players by NFL standards, an extra year can prove troublesome, and I think it did for Traylor and Holiday, the two we kept. Traylor just couldn't play more than a down or two before having to come out, and offenses knew that. Holiday suffered a poor season, and there are several excuses you can use, but let's face it, he wasn't up to his 2006 standards.

At Linebacker, Taylor really benefitted from Saban's hybrid role. And as much as we enjoy villifying Saban, he fielded a very strong defense, which was his specialty. In 2007 Taylor didn't enjoy the same level of success. Similarly, while Saban required a lot more of his secondary guys, and was universally disliked by them, our secondary was a lot more productive under Saban. You can cite the front 7 play as being better or whatever, but the result was that Saban fielded a good defense, once Saban left, what was essentially that same core defense really broke down.

The other thing to recognize is that Zach Thomas was the cornerstone of our defense, and as has been the case since he joined Miami, when he was out injured we have struggled. His absence for the vast majority of the 2007 season really hurt.

So, when comparing the Bowens to Roth, I think it's worth acknowledging that in 2007 we didn't have the same caliber of player or coaching style as we did in 2006. Yes, the DC was the same, but Saban coached our defense extensively, Cam did not. The loss of Carter and Zach had huge impacts on our team. I'm not saying losing Bowens was a good idea, because I didn't want him to go either, but as I mentioned earlier, I was even more disappointed to learn we were letting Carter go, as he was a legitimate rock on our front line.

As for Merling, I realize you see him as having the skills and ability to play at OLB eventually. We disagree on this point, but that's OK. I think Merling's quickness will be a real asset as a 34 DE in passing situations, and playing DE really complements his strengths which are run stuffing and length.

I think eventually Langford and Merling can cause problems along the DL, with Langford more of a pocket pusher and Merling more of a quick guy who may demand a double-team just to keep out of the equation. This should do what Parcells loves best, free up his OLB's to pin their ears back and pressure the QB. Ultimately, I think these draft picks will protect our secondary in passing situations, because they have the size and ability to play as 34 DL guys, plus the quickness to generate some pass rush. I can see Langford and Merling developing into a 3 down DL. Langford may play DE for first and second down and shift over to NT for 3rd down play, but the two of them should be a solid part of our DL rotation in the future.
 
those picks aere about the future and that sends a message to all Dlinemen including the aforementioned....
 
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