Philbin and Lazor weren't so dumb afterall | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Philbin and Lazor weren't so dumb afterall

JTech194

JTech194

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When It came out that Philbin\Lazor didn't allow Tannehill to call audibles, Dan Campbell then came out and said that they didn't want to "Slow him (the QB) Down" by having him think so much. When Philbin\Lazor installed a quick pass dink and dunk offense designed to get the ball out of Tannehill's hands as quickly as possible..... a lot of fans and media jumped down their throats complaining about it. NOT ME!! I asked the question..... WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT??? Philbin came from GB and they didn't run a system like that.... Lazor was in Philly one year and other systems before that that weren't run that way... So WHY would they install that type of offense?????? WHY would they not allow the QB to audible to whatever play he wanted as opposed to a set number of options that they gave him??????

The answer is.... BECAUSE THEY KNEW WE DON'T HAVE THE QB OR OLINE TO RUN A REAL OFFENSE!!! We don't have the line that allows the QB to hold the ball for 4-5 seconds every pass play... Tannebaum tried to build that type of line this year by signing a bunch of tackles with the idea that they would be able to pass protect like that... but the problem with that is... IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.. THIS IS THE NFL DLINEMAN ARE TOO GOOD. And you sacrifice run blocking.

There are 2 types of FRANCHISE QB's in this league

1. The QB with great instincts\awareness and are mobile enough to avoid the inevitable pressure to buy time and allow receivers to get open or run for first downs to extend drives... These are the Big Bens, Cam Newtons, Aaron Rodgers and Tomy Romos of the world.

And then you have

2. The cerebral QB whose football IQ's are elite and they can diagnose a defense and identify the mismatch in a split second, these QB's are so accurate that they don't need WR's to be "OPEN" because they can throw them open by anticipating the breaks and throwing before the WR gets open and they can place the ball in places where only the WR can make a play. These are the Tom Brady's, Drew Brees, Peyton Mannings, of the world.

Which category does our QB fit??? IF you don't have a guy that has traits from one of the above categories (or both) then you have a JAG (Just Another Guy) that's holding the spot for a QB that does have these traits. You don't sign this guy to a big contract.

The problem we are having now is.... Gase is trying to run a REAL NFL offense, he bought the load of crap that Tennebaum sold him about if we put a bunch of pass protectors around the QB and build this oline to pass protect then we can win with this QB... But that's impossible and Gase was either too green to recognize it OR wanted a HC opportunity so bad that he just went along with it. Either way... he's quickly realizing that His offense will not work with this QB and the philosophy of building a pass protecting oline that can consistently give the QB 3-5 seconds to throw.

This team might not win 4 games this year. And it's amazing that Philbin\Lazor\Coyle was able to get 8 wins out of them. In hindsight, they did a hell of a coaching job.
 
The bottom line to me is these coaches for the most part know more than we do and also want to win more than we want the team to win. I know this would hurt lots of posters feelings but its true. Mike Ppouncey is a perfect example on here. Is he a knucklehead? Sure he is, but as soon as finheaven sees another center put in a respectable effort tis time to move on from Pouncey yet the coach is gushing to have him back in the lineup. He's likely better than Steen no matter how badly we want it to be the other way. I seriously doubt he's playing based on his pay from a regime that didn't give him that contract.

As bad as we all thought Philbin and Lazor were they probably know the players and wanted them to succeed more than finheaven. If Gase starts scaling things back for Tannehill we'll know they weren't so dumb. They are both probably having a good laugh at as now anyway, hell throw in Coyle and Campbell also. The team is much worse than anything we saw under them.

The finheaven mantra since like 2009 (Chad Henne) is the OC and HC are holding back the young QB. Both times it looks like the truth is the young QB sucks and can't handle much in an NFL offense. Why do we always go after the OC/HC when the young QB blows?
 
DolfanISS said:
The bottom line to me is these coaches for the most part know more than we do and also want to win more than we want the team to win. I know this would hurt lots of posters feelings but its true. Mike Ppouncey is a perfect example on here. Is he a knucklehead? Sure he is, but as soon as finheaven sees another center put in a respectable effort tis time to move on from Pouncey yet the coach is gushing to have him back in the lineup. He's likely better than Steen no matter how badly we want it to be the other way. I seriously doubt he's playing based on his pay from a regime that didn't give him that contract.

As bad as we all thought Philbin and Lazor were they probably know the players and wanted them to succeed more than finheaven. If Gase starts scaling things back for Tannehill we'll know they weren't so dumb. They are both probably having a good laugh at as now anyway, hell throw in Coyle and Campbell also. The team is much worse than anything we saw under them.

The finheaven mantra since like 2009 (Chad Henne) is the OC and HC are holding back the young QB. Both times it looks like the truth is the young QB sucks and can't handle much in an NFL offense. Why do we always go after the OC/HC when the young QB blows?
Click to expand...

Coaches get enamored with athletic ability and their egos make them think they can "teach" any player how to probably play the position or they can squeeze every bit of "potential" out of a player. It has killed more than one coach in the NFL. Why do you think Dion Jordan is still hanging around?

I wish the Dolphins would have had all their lineman available on Sunday so that we could have seen if Pouncey really is the issue on calling protections because we've seen Steen play and the line held up well in pass pro. Yesterday the team gave up 6 sacks to a team that only had 6 sacks in the first 4 games but I can't pin it on Pouncey because Dallas Thomas and Billy Turner flat out suck.
 
DolfanISS said:
The bottom line to me is these coaches for the most part know more than we do and also want to win more than we want the team to win. I know this would hurt lots of posters feelings but its true. Mike Ppouncey is a perfect example on here. Is he a knucklehead? Sure he is, but as soon as finheaven sees another center put in a respectable effort tis time to move on from Pouncey yet the coach is gushing to have him back in the lineup. He's likely better than Steen no matter how badly we want it to be the other way. I seriously doubt he's playing based on his pay from a regime that didn't give him that contract.

As bad as we all thought Philbin and Lazor were they probably know the players and wanted them to succeed more than finheaven. If Gase starts scaling things back for Tannehill we'll know they weren't so dumb. They are both probably having a good laugh at as now anyway, hell throw in Coyle and Campbell also. The team is much worse than anything we saw under them.

The finheaven mantra since like 2009 (Chad Henne) is the OC and HC are holding back the young QB. Both times it looks like the truth is the young QB sucks and can't handle much in an NFL offense. Why do we always go after the OC/HC when the young QB blows?
Click to expand...

Very good question. The QB has to be a playmaker... not Just another Guy. Most positions on the field are Do your Job positions. The QB position isn't one of them THE QB HAS TO MAKE PLAYS
 
datruth55 said:
Coaches get enamored with athletic ability and their egos make them think they can "teach" any player how to probably play the position or they can squeeze every bit of "potential" out of a player. It has killed more than one coach in the NFL. Why do you think Dion Jordan is still hanging around?

I wish the Dolphins would have had all their lineman available on Sunday so that we could have seen if Pouncey really is the issue on calling protections because we've seen Steen play and the line held up well in pass pro. Yesterday the team gave up 6 sacks to a team that only had 6 sacks in the first 4 games but I can't pin it on Pouncey because Dallas Thomas and Billy Turner flat out suck.
Click to expand...

Yea I can't blame yesterday on Pouncy. Dallas and Turner were also put in tough spots because of the late scratch of Tunsil. But the QB has to know and anticipate that the line was not going to give him lots of time to throw yesterday and have contingency plans when the pressure came. We had no answers.
 
giving the qb freedom at the los isn't an issue in this case

the qbs inability to extend plays when things collapse around him is...sometimes his back foot can't even hit before he takes contact saw examples of that yesterday and there's nothing he can do about that...they call a 7 step he's gonna take a 7 step they call a 5 step he's gonna take a 5 step...back foot must be able to hit...but not developing the ability to either run with the damn ball when the pocket breaks down or he gets a bad coverage look or maintain progressions when moved off the preferred spot is

it doesn't help that the run game provides no relief...13 carries for 42 yards from ajayi where half of them was ajayi falling forward or thru contact or making the first man miss in the backfield is train wreck stuff...

we were sitting ducks
 
Remember in the offseason when the likes of Omar and Perkins were saying the ball was coming out much quicker with Moore in there? Tannehill is freezing up because he's processing too much, it'll probably slow down for him at some point but it might be too late. And this is another example of Gase not adjusting his scheme to fit the player.
 
Not giving Ryan Tannehill the ability to audible, for better or worse, is pure incompetence. There is no defending that. Personally, I think they encouraged him not to leave the pocket as Lazor puts it "There is always a right option on every play". Not sure if he ever gets it right here in Miami.

I don't need a micromanaged QB behind center. Either Ryan can handle all of the duties or he can't, but I definitely am tired of 6 to 8 win seasons with every offseason talking about "what ifs" with the QB.

He has to get better with his movements, period. Yesterday was a trainwreck with those 2 disasters (Thanks Trump) on the leftside but its an ongoing issue. Its never perfect, but at some point you gotta do something, anything to help yourself out, let alone the team.
 
They may not have been so dumb but a good coach figures out how to win w the personnel he has. It's not like Tannehill is Ryan Leaf or something. Also, if you believe Gase "bought" anything that Tannenbaum was selling that's a naive - Gase wanted a HC job and he helped make this roster. If he just listened to these idiots than he is a fool and not very bright. A real coach would have this team competing. 8 first downs 2 weeks in a row? That's hard to do.

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------
roy_miami said:
Remember in the offseason when the likes of Omar and Perkins were saying the ball was coming out much quicker with Moore in there? Tannehill is freezing up because he's processing too much, it'll probably slow down for him at some point but it might be too late. And this is another example of Gase not adjusting his scheme to fit the player.
Click to expand...
i wasn't offended as some were by those comments. I believed it. They didn't say Moore was better or should start - they just said the ball comes out quicker. I'm sure it does w him.
 
they were dumb but so is current staff, hmmm we may be worse currently after second thought.
 
Lazor gets no pass what so ever. His offense was stagnant and he provided no wrinkles or evolution to help it progress. Lazor stole Kelly's playbook and didnt know what to do with out once he got his hands on it.

And Gase is nothing more than an overrated OC who gained rep as a clipboard holder for a future HOF QB, much like Philbin.
 
Kdawg954 said:
Not giving Ryan Tannehill the ability to audible, for better or worse, is pure incompetence.
Click to expand...

Tannehill could audible under Philbin and Sherman got fired. So how much worse does it need to get before you realize he's not one of the audible masters of the league? And at that moment Philbin wanted to draft a different QB. And on top of all that when he lost the ability to audible we had a top 8 offense (according to Football Outsiders), all of the other offenses in the top 8 had bonafied elite QB at the helm but us getting there with Tannehill is an example of incompetence?
 
During the controversy last year about Tannehill not getting to audible when Campbell was coach he said that Tannehill was given more freedom in the past and it affected his play. When those freedoms were removed he played better.

Coach Shula used to say that with Marino it didn't take long for it to go from Dan's brain to his feet and to his arm. That is not true of Tannehill. RT is clearly not instinctive and slow to react. It appears giving Tannehill additional mental work turns him from being a turtle to a snail.
 
Is not the oline in Indy having issues too just like Miami soo if that's Philbins experience should that not be the area of a team to improve. Thats the mark of a good coach improvement.
 
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