Andyman
Canadian Fin Fan
Except Montana won his first two Superbowls without those guys :)
Philbin trading marshall
- Thread starter 1Dolfan
- Start date
Except Montana won his first two Superbowls without those guys :)
Maybe they traded him because he was the one who decided when he would show and when he wouldn't. Maybe they decided he can't f***ing catch unless he at the Pro Bowl, or maybe they just tired of his schtick.
Hartline wasn't even the #1 receiver at Ohio State. How in the world is he going to be a number 1 for the Dolphins. Hopefully one of the other receivers pan out. I can see 8 men in the box and blitz city for the entire season. No one will fear the Dolphins receivers.
SQuinn17
League Dominator
I think it had to do with his cap number as well. Pretty tough to pay a guy 10+ mil a year who drops more td's than he catches, throws teammates under the bus and publicly embarasses the organization during the offseasons. I find it atrocious that Marshall can justify slamming our team in anyway considering the fact we traded so much to get him AND signed him to a huge deal that nobody really wanted to give him.
I guess I should've rephrased that and said that "they said" a number 1 receiver isn't really needed. I'm still a wait and see about the offense guy, but I know the offense will be more balanced and we won't have to throw to a receiver 10 times a game just because he's the number 1 receiver, we'll throw it to whoever is running the best play and whoever gets the most separation and our offense will be more balanced.
Brian Hartline and Davone Bess aren't exactly chopped liver either, I know they're not number 1 receivers but it's also not like they're 2 Ted Ginns or something. They both run good routes and have good hands and are a good fit for the WCO.
I was hoping that they'd get a good receiver in the draft in the 2nd or 3rd round, but if Philbin feels he can win with these receivers and turn this offense into something then it's on him, and I really hope it works out.
utahphinsfan
Club Member
Agreed & the pats won twice w/o a true# 1 WR.
Marshall IMO was traded primarily for character issues. His on field improvisation would detrimental to a precise timing based offense.
Phins28
Club Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2006
- Messages
- 4,330
- Reaction score
- 1,654
But he won with Freddie Solomon and Dwight Clark, they were very good.
miamimarlins
☠️ Banned ☠️
- Joined
- May 3, 2012
- Messages
- 19
- Reaction score
- 0
i think we need to worry about keeping our defense stout. that's miami dolphins football. the offense will come along if the defense stays strong.
Andyman
Canadian Fin Fan
Sure but you see the point. Look who the Pats had at WR in their wins or the Giants in their first two SBs.
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2011
- Messages
- 30,319
- Reaction score
- 16,143
I was pretty upset when we first traded Marshall, but I do think we're better off in the long run without him. The guy has too many issues. After the last incident where he randomly punched out a woman, I think it's pretty clear that he's always going to be a guy with issues.
Rick Cartman
It is what it is
Lets give Philbin a chance, but i have a feeling this will be an issue all season
Johnstone
☠️ Banned ☠️
I agree with trading Marshall, but for just 2 3rd rounders; is just ridiculous. We could of got at least a 2nd rounder or a first round pick.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2007
- Messages
- 11,060
- Reaction score
- 15,045
Wasn't happening, they shopped him for awhile and Chicago offered he best deal. And that was before the story of him punching the girl came out
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2009
- Messages
- 9,174
- Reaction score
- 17,148
I had created this thread entitled The Beast That Never Was at another website, but never posted it at finheaven...
I will start by saying I was a big fan of the trade that brought Brandon Marshall to the Dolphins. I first saw him when my beloved Nevada Wolfpack (alumnus) beat UCF in the Hawaii Bowl in 2005 by a score of 49-48. Brandon was a man among boys catching 11 passes for 230 yards and catching 3 TD passes. Brandon was clearly the best player on the field that day. I thought the Broncos got the "steal of the draft" by selecting him the 4th round. I honestly thought we were getting the 3rd best WR in football behind only Johnson (Hou) and Fitzgerald when Ireland traded for him.
But the more I watched Marshall on the field, the less of a fan of Brandon I became. Fans much smarter than myself let me know I was clueless when I mentioned Marshall isn't all that on the forums. Those in the know usually referred to Brandon's 86 catches and 1,104 yards in 2010 and 81 catches 1,214 yards in 2011. Of course, not much was said about his lack of TDs and his drops were dismissed being thrown at the end of his fingertips
and difficult catches that he shouldn't be expected to have made. Although, the national experts certainly disagreed that Marshall shouldn't have made those catches.
When I first saw the trade yesterday I thought "good for Ireland to come to his senses and cut the Dolphins losses"...addition by subtraction, besides freeing up cap space and getting a couple of 3rd round picks. The Dolphins are going to follow Philbin's plan of having a team of hard-working, high-character guys that play the game the right way. But many of the fans on the forums and the "professional writers" were saying what a bad trade it was to only get two 3rd round picks and have been asking "How are the Dolphins going to replace Marshall?" and it was a bad move unless it results in the signing of Peyton Manning. More proof that Ireland is a ****ing idiot according to those that seem to despise the man.
I was left scratching my head, what appears to be a chronic condition directly related to spending time on the forums...
, so I decided to check the numbers to see if I was just crazy for thinking what I saw on the field was one of the most physically gifted and talented players ever to wear a Dolphin uniform actually hurt the Dolphins chances of winning, not helped them. The following is what I found:
Under the Ireland/Sparano regime lasting 4 seasons (2008-2011):
Miami's Overall Record: 31-33 (plus 0-1 in playoffs)
Miami's record without Brandon Marshall: 19-15 (.559 winning percentage)
Miami's record with Brandon Marshall: 12-18 (.400 winning percentage)
Miami's PPG (Points Per Game) Offense 2008-2011 (64 games): 20.4
Miam's PPG without Brandon Marshall in 34 games: 22.0
Miami's PPG with Brandon Marshall in 30 games: 18.6
Here are the yearly breakdowns of PPG over the Ireland/Sparano years with leading WRs making an impact prior to Marshall becoming a Dolphin for that year in parentheses:
2008: 21[SUP]st[/SUP] at 21.6 (Ted Ginn Jr., Greg Camarillo, Davone Bess)
2009: 15[SUP]th[/SUP] at 22.5 (Davone Bess, Greg Camarillo, Ted Ginn Jr., Brian Hartline)
2010: 30[SUP]th[/SUP] at 17.1 (Miami played 2 games without Marshall and averaged 21.5 ppg … in 14 games with Marshall playing Miami averaged 16.4 ppg)
2011: 20[SUP]th[/SUP] at 20.6
Of course, the most common argument for Brandon Marshall supporters is "look who the QBs are that are throwing him the ball." The following is a breakdown of the QBs under Ireland/Sparano:
The beloved Chad Pennington:
Chad Pennington regular season record as Dolphin starter and no Brandon Marshall: 11-8
Chad Pennington regular season record as Dolphin starter and Brandon Marshall: 1-0
(Pennington threw 2 passes before hurting his shoulder. Chad Henne came in and threw 28 passes before hurting his knee and Thigpen threw 6 passes in 29-17 win over Titans)
Everybody’s favorite whipping boy Chad Henne:
Chad Henne record as Dolphin starter: 13-18 (one win credited Pennington as starter...Titans game, but should be credited to Henne and one loss credited to Henne as starter but should be credited to Moore...Chargers game)
Chad Henne record as Dolphin starter without Marshall: 8-7 (PPG…24.0)
Chad Henne record as Dolphin starter with Marshall: 5-11 (PPG...17.4)
Wow…winning record without Marshall and losing record with him, as well as 6.6 less ppg when Marshall plays. Who brought who down? Looks like Henne was doing pretty well as the Dolphin QB when the focus was on spreading the ball around and not targeting Marshall so much.
(Side note: Miami was only 1-6 in 2011 when Brandon Marshall was targeted 9 times or more and 5-4 when targeted 8 times or less).
Tyler Thigpen had one start with Brandon Marshall: 0-1 (0.0 ppg…shutout against Bears)
Matt Moore record with Brandon Marshall: 6-6 (21.6 ppg) (Moore should be credited with loss given to Henne. Came into game 1[SUP]st[/SUP] quarter, ball at 50 yard line and scored tied 0-0. Miami scored on drive to take 7-0 lead)
Keep in mind that Moore got to go up against the who’s who of bad defenses in ppg…Philly ranked 10[SUP]th[/SUP], KC 12[SUP]th[/SUP], NE 15[SUP]th[/SUP], Dallas 16[SUP]th[/SUP], Jets 20[SUP]th[/SUP](2 games), Washington 21[SUP]st[/SUP], Denver 24[SUP]th[/SUP], Giants 25[SUP]th[/SUP], Oakland 29[SUP]th[/SUP], Buffalo 30[SUP]th[/SUP] (2 games).
Then when I compared Marshall to WRs on other teams what I saw was “The Beast” that NEVER was for Brandon Marshall. The following are career stats of a few WRs to compare alongside Brandon Marshall’s when it comes to TD production. This is just a sampling as there are plenty of other WRs who put Marshall to shame (Moss, Wayne, Austin, Burress, Holmes, Nicks, etc…the list is long) when it comes to scoring.
The “TD % targeted” = how many TD’s the WR has averaged per 100 times being thrown to (targeted) over his career.
The “TD % completed” = how many TD’s the WR has averaged over career per 100 completions over his career.
Dez Bryant
108 of 175, 1489 yards, 13.8 ypc, 15 TD … 8.57 TD % targeted, 13.89 TD % completed
Vincent Jackson
272 of 491, 4754 yards, 17.5 ypc, 37 TD … 7.54 TD % targeted, 13.6 TD % completed
Calvin Johnson
366 of 677, 5872 yards, 16.0 ypc, 49 TD … 7.24 TD % targeted, 13.39 TD % completed
Jordy Nelson
168 of 244, 2531 yards, 15.1 ypc, 21 TD … 8.61 TD % targeted, 12.5 TD % completed
Greg Jennings
389 of 670, 6171 yards, 15.9 ypc, 49 TD … 7.31 TD % targeted, 12.6 TD % completed
Stevie Johnson
170 of 293, 2189 yards, 12.9 ypc, 19 TD … 6.49 TD % targeted, 11.18 TD % completed
Marques Colston
449 of 691, 6240 yards, 13.9 ypc, 48 TD … 6.95 TD % targeted, 10.69 TD % completed
Larry Fitzgerald
693 of 1191, 9615 yards, 13.9 ypc, 73 TD … 6.13 TD % targeted, 10.53 TD % completed
David Bowe
356 of 636, 4927 yards, 13.8 ypc, 36 TD … 5.67 TD % targeted, 10.11 TD % completed
Brandon Llyod
311 of 665, 4784 yards, 15.4 ypc, 31 TD … 4.66 TD % targeted, 9.97 TD % completed
DeSean Jackson
230 of 438, 4096 yards, 17.8 ypc, 21 TD … 4.79 TD % targeted, 9.13 TD % completed
Roddy White
530 of 940, 7374 yards, 13.9 ypc, 45 TD … 4.79 TD % targeted, 8.49 TD % completed
Steve Smith
699 of 1190, 10278 yards, 14.7 ypc, 59 TD … 4.96 TD % targeted, 8.44 TD % completed
Brandon Marshall
494 of 827, 6247 yards, 12.6 ypc, 34 TD … 4.11 TD % targeted, 6.88 TD % completed
Of note: Brandon Marshall is the lowest of this group for ypc, TD % targeted, and TD % completed…big play WR Brandon Marshall is NOT!
Of course, some will say the QB throwing the ball had a role and that is fair. Obviously having a Manning or a Brees would improve a WR’s numbers. However, Marshall did have Cutler and Moore throw him the ball and both can throw the deep pass well. Players like Lloyd, Bowe and Johnson haven’t had elite QBs throwing them the ball. And is anyone going to claim Matt Ryan can throw the deep ball well? If Ryan gets within 5 yards of WR on a pass over 30 yards it is a fairly accurate pass for him.
After looking at the numbers and pondering a familiar headline I have been reading since Brandon Marshall was traded to the Bears “How will Miami replace Brandon Marshall?” I know Ted Ginn Jr. is a UFA and I don't know Camarillo's status but I am sure a deal could be worked out to get him back on the roster. Other than that, I don't think I am going too far out on a limb to say that if one of those 3rd picks Miami just picked from the Bears were to be spent on a WR in the draft Miami would do just fine replacing Brandon Marshall.
I will start by saying I was a big fan of the trade that brought Brandon Marshall to the Dolphins. I first saw him when my beloved Nevada Wolfpack (alumnus) beat UCF in the Hawaii Bowl in 2005 by a score of 49-48. Brandon was a man among boys catching 11 passes for 230 yards and catching 3 TD passes. Brandon was clearly the best player on the field that day. I thought the Broncos got the "steal of the draft" by selecting him the 4th round. I honestly thought we were getting the 3rd best WR in football behind only Johnson (Hou) and Fitzgerald when Ireland traded for him.
But the more I watched Marshall on the field, the less of a fan of Brandon I became. Fans much smarter than myself let me know I was clueless when I mentioned Marshall isn't all that on the forums. Those in the know usually referred to Brandon's 86 catches and 1,104 yards in 2010 and 81 catches 1,214 yards in 2011. Of course, not much was said about his lack of TDs and his drops were dismissed being thrown at the end of his fingertips
When I first saw the trade yesterday I thought "good for Ireland to come to his senses and cut the Dolphins losses"...addition by subtraction, besides freeing up cap space and getting a couple of 3rd round picks. The Dolphins are going to follow Philbin's plan of having a team of hard-working, high-character guys that play the game the right way. But many of the fans on the forums and the "professional writers" were saying what a bad trade it was to only get two 3rd round picks and have been asking "How are the Dolphins going to replace Marshall?" and it was a bad move unless it results in the signing of Peyton Manning. More proof that Ireland is a ****ing idiot according to those that seem to despise the man.
I was left scratching my head, what appears to be a chronic condition directly related to spending time on the forums...
Under the Ireland/Sparano regime lasting 4 seasons (2008-2011):
Miami's Overall Record: 31-33 (plus 0-1 in playoffs)
Miami's record without Brandon Marshall: 19-15 (.559 winning percentage)
Miami's record with Brandon Marshall: 12-18 (.400 winning percentage)
Miami's PPG (Points Per Game) Offense 2008-2011 (64 games): 20.4
Miam's PPG without Brandon Marshall in 34 games: 22.0
Miami's PPG with Brandon Marshall in 30 games: 18.6
Here are the yearly breakdowns of PPG over the Ireland/Sparano years with leading WRs making an impact prior to Marshall becoming a Dolphin for that year in parentheses:
2008: 21[SUP]st[/SUP] at 21.6 (Ted Ginn Jr., Greg Camarillo, Davone Bess)
2009: 15[SUP]th[/SUP] at 22.5 (Davone Bess, Greg Camarillo, Ted Ginn Jr., Brian Hartline)
2010: 30[SUP]th[/SUP] at 17.1 (Miami played 2 games without Marshall and averaged 21.5 ppg … in 14 games with Marshall playing Miami averaged 16.4 ppg)
2011: 20[SUP]th[/SUP] at 20.6
Of course, the most common argument for Brandon Marshall supporters is "look who the QBs are that are throwing him the ball." The following is a breakdown of the QBs under Ireland/Sparano:
The beloved Chad Pennington:
Chad Pennington regular season record as Dolphin starter and no Brandon Marshall: 11-8
Chad Pennington regular season record as Dolphin starter and Brandon Marshall: 1-0
(Pennington threw 2 passes before hurting his shoulder. Chad Henne came in and threw 28 passes before hurting his knee and Thigpen threw 6 passes in 29-17 win over Titans)
Everybody’s favorite whipping boy Chad Henne:
Chad Henne record as Dolphin starter: 13-18 (one win credited Pennington as starter...Titans game, but should be credited to Henne and one loss credited to Henne as starter but should be credited to Moore...Chargers game)
Chad Henne record as Dolphin starter without Marshall: 8-7 (PPG…24.0)
Chad Henne record as Dolphin starter with Marshall: 5-11 (PPG...17.4)
Wow…winning record without Marshall and losing record with him, as well as 6.6 less ppg when Marshall plays. Who brought who down? Looks like Henne was doing pretty well as the Dolphin QB when the focus was on spreading the ball around and not targeting Marshall so much.
(Side note: Miami was only 1-6 in 2011 when Brandon Marshall was targeted 9 times or more and 5-4 when targeted 8 times or less).
Tyler Thigpen had one start with Brandon Marshall: 0-1 (0.0 ppg…shutout against Bears)
Matt Moore record with Brandon Marshall: 6-6 (21.6 ppg) (Moore should be credited with loss given to Henne. Came into game 1[SUP]st[/SUP] quarter, ball at 50 yard line and scored tied 0-0. Miami scored on drive to take 7-0 lead)
Keep in mind that Moore got to go up against the who’s who of bad defenses in ppg…Philly ranked 10[SUP]th[/SUP], KC 12[SUP]th[/SUP], NE 15[SUP]th[/SUP], Dallas 16[SUP]th[/SUP], Jets 20[SUP]th[/SUP](2 games), Washington 21[SUP]st[/SUP], Denver 24[SUP]th[/SUP], Giants 25[SUP]th[/SUP], Oakland 29[SUP]th[/SUP], Buffalo 30[SUP]th[/SUP] (2 games).
Then when I compared Marshall to WRs on other teams what I saw was “The Beast” that NEVER was for Brandon Marshall. The following are career stats of a few WRs to compare alongside Brandon Marshall’s when it comes to TD production. This is just a sampling as there are plenty of other WRs who put Marshall to shame (Moss, Wayne, Austin, Burress, Holmes, Nicks, etc…the list is long) when it comes to scoring.
The “TD % targeted” = how many TD’s the WR has averaged per 100 times being thrown to (targeted) over his career.
The “TD % completed” = how many TD’s the WR has averaged over career per 100 completions over his career.
Dez Bryant
108 of 175, 1489 yards, 13.8 ypc, 15 TD … 8.57 TD % targeted, 13.89 TD % completed
Vincent Jackson
272 of 491, 4754 yards, 17.5 ypc, 37 TD … 7.54 TD % targeted, 13.6 TD % completed
Calvin Johnson
366 of 677, 5872 yards, 16.0 ypc, 49 TD … 7.24 TD % targeted, 13.39 TD % completed
Jordy Nelson
168 of 244, 2531 yards, 15.1 ypc, 21 TD … 8.61 TD % targeted, 12.5 TD % completed
Greg Jennings
389 of 670, 6171 yards, 15.9 ypc, 49 TD … 7.31 TD % targeted, 12.6 TD % completed
Stevie Johnson
170 of 293, 2189 yards, 12.9 ypc, 19 TD … 6.49 TD % targeted, 11.18 TD % completed
Marques Colston
449 of 691, 6240 yards, 13.9 ypc, 48 TD … 6.95 TD % targeted, 10.69 TD % completed
Larry Fitzgerald
693 of 1191, 9615 yards, 13.9 ypc, 73 TD … 6.13 TD % targeted, 10.53 TD % completed
David Bowe
356 of 636, 4927 yards, 13.8 ypc, 36 TD … 5.67 TD % targeted, 10.11 TD % completed
Brandon Llyod
311 of 665, 4784 yards, 15.4 ypc, 31 TD … 4.66 TD % targeted, 9.97 TD % completed
DeSean Jackson
230 of 438, 4096 yards, 17.8 ypc, 21 TD … 4.79 TD % targeted, 9.13 TD % completed
Roddy White
530 of 940, 7374 yards, 13.9 ypc, 45 TD … 4.79 TD % targeted, 8.49 TD % completed
Steve Smith
699 of 1190, 10278 yards, 14.7 ypc, 59 TD … 4.96 TD % targeted, 8.44 TD % completed
Brandon Marshall
494 of 827, 6247 yards, 12.6 ypc, 34 TD … 4.11 TD % targeted, 6.88 TD % completed
Of note: Brandon Marshall is the lowest of this group for ypc, TD % targeted, and TD % completed…big play WR Brandon Marshall is NOT!
Of course, some will say the QB throwing the ball had a role and that is fair. Obviously having a Manning or a Brees would improve a WR’s numbers. However, Marshall did have Cutler and Moore throw him the ball and both can throw the deep pass well. Players like Lloyd, Bowe and Johnson haven’t had elite QBs throwing them the ball. And is anyone going to claim Matt Ryan can throw the deep ball well? If Ryan gets within 5 yards of WR on a pass over 30 yards it is a fairly accurate pass for him.
After looking at the numbers and pondering a familiar headline I have been reading since Brandon Marshall was traded to the Bears “How will Miami replace Brandon Marshall?” I know Ted Ginn Jr. is a UFA and I don't know Camarillo's status but I am sure a deal could be worked out to get him back on the roster. Other than that, I don't think I am going too far out on a limb to say that if one of those 3rd picks Miami just picked from the Bears were to be spent on a WR in the draft Miami would do just fine replacing Brandon Marshall.