Play Pat White for 1st and 2nd downs only. Penny on 3rd's | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Play Pat White for 1st and 2nd downs only. Penny on 3rd's

Never say die

A Porpoise Driven Life....
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Let's review some obvious or Given things: (and I submit this looking for scrutiny.. good or bad)

1.) Pennington is no threat to throw deep over the safeties. Therefore they don't bother playing deep halves or thirds and make their reads on the fly while playing the run or breaking on passes in front of them.

2.) Pennington is the most accurate QB in the history of the game but can't throw deep.

3.) The wildcat when fully implemented works. And is best run on first and second down as a change of pace or until the defense shows signs of being able to stop it.

4.) Pat White's skill set adds a potential to the wildcat that Pennington or Henne do not.

5.) 3rd and greater than 2 yds. Teams rarely try to throw deep, but instead throw to make the first.

6.) Pat white is gravely inaccurate, but will not develop unless given the opportunities.

7.) Our offensive strength is in our running game, and therefore we are a team who should "use the run to set up the pass'.

8.) The 'Phins are not adverse to platooning their QB's.

9.) The 'Phins want their best play makers on the field.

10.) The best playmakers can vary for the task at hand. (i.e. Camarillo, Bess and Hartline may be better 3rd down or possession receivers than Ginn.)

Conclusions:
1.) Start Pat White to run the offense on first and second downs. After all any QB should be able to hand it off. Run the Wild cat on occasion with PW in place of the receiver, and mix in the 3 set backfield. And 6-8 times a game allow PW to pass on 1st or second down to develop his abilities to read a defense. This will allow us to carry the over-the-top threat on the deep passing downs while giving us an athlete at QB who can run or pass out of the various positions (including the receiver set). The safeties should by necessity play back and perhaps open the running game up even further..... We should also look forward to PW taking advantage of the safeties cheating up on occasion if they automatically assume the run!

2.) Platoon Pennington in on all Third downs and especially greater than 2 yards. This will put the most accurate QB in the history of the game in to throw to his strength (the short routes). And on occasion to mix it up and run draws etc. It certainly will have the defenses paying attention to the personnel changes! PW struggles with touch and CP is at his best in these routes.

This from Peter King on his MOnday Morning QB column, seems to support my reference to CP strengths:

"Think of the previous third-and-five-yards-or-longer snaps for the Dolphins. In inverse order, here are the five in the second half that preceded this playcall: Third-and-seven, 21-yard pass to Ted Ginn; first down. Third-and-five, 15-yard pass to Ginn; first down. Third-and-six, seven-yard pass to Ginn; first down. Third-and-seven, incomplete pass to Ronnie Brown. Third-and-five, 10-yard pass to Ginn; first down. All five were passes. Pennington completed four of them, all first-down conversions."


Now, most likely PW would not have hit those same throws. But our game plan called on Chad to throw only when needed as the 'Cat was working and again our strengths are our running game, our QB's efficiency and our flexibility to vary the offensive set.


I believe that is putting our best athletes or playmakers in not only to get them on the field but also to play to their strengths..... Your thoughts?:
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i wish everyone would quit dreaming and wake up and realize pat white is not a nfl qb and will never amount to anything in this league.....this draft pick was worse than the 9 for ginn
 
On a side note, how come the OP's message has the on-line, rep, report & edit buttons in it?
 
Are you always so expressive and thought provoking in your responses? How about some interaction here with some logic....... Anybody out there with even half a brain that can counter with something supported with any rationale what-s0-ever?
 
Couldn't agree more. These games count and RB can handle the trickery.
Yet RB is no threat for a pass downfield. Do you guys think through your responses. How, for example would and have NFL defenses countered the Wildcat? What is CP's glaring weakness? What is his glaring strength? Are we to just give up on PW, when he has more upside than Henne if he develops (granted a big if.) But even just handing the ball off he at least presents a threat of passing over the safetys. Something CP has not been a threat at in years.. (or the deep out, as far as that goes).
 
Let's review some obvious or Given things: (and I submit this looking for scrutiny.. good or bad)

1.) Pennington is no threat to throw deep over the safeties. Therefore they don't bother playing deep halves or thirds and make their reads on the fly while playing the run or breaking on passes in front of them.

2.) Pennington is the most accurate QB in the history of the game but can't throw deep.

3.) The wildcat when fully implemented works. And is best run on first and second down as a change of pace or until the defense shows signs of being able to stop it.

4.) Pat White's skill set adds a potential to the wildcat that Pennington or Henne do not.

5.) 3rd and greater than 2 yds. Teams rarely try to throw deep, but instead throw to make the first.

6.) Pat white is gravely inaccurate, but will not develop unless given the opportunities.

7.) Our offensive strength is in our running game, and therefore we are a team who should "use the run to set up the pass'.

8.) The 'Phins are not adverse to platooning their QB's.

9.) The 'Phins want their best play makers on the field.

10.) The best playmakers can vary for the task at hand. (i.e. Camarillo, Bess and Hartline may be better 3rd down or possession receivers than Ginn.)

Conclusions:
1.) Start Pat White to run the offense on first and second downs. After all any QB should be able to hand it off. Run the Wild cat on occasion with PW in place of the receiver, and mix in the 3 set backfield. And 6-8 times a game allow PW to pass on 1st or second down to develop his abilities to read a defense. This will allow us to carry the over-the-top threat on the deep passing downs while giving us an athlete at QB who can run or pass out of the various positions (including the receiver set). The safeties should by necessity play back and perhaps open the running game up even further..... We should also look forward to PW taking advantage of the safeties cheating up on occasion if they automatically assume the run!

2.) Platoon Pennington in on all Third downs and especially greater than 2 yards. This will put the most accurate QB in the history of the game in to throw to his strength (the short routes). And on occasion to mix it up and run draws etc. It certainly will have the defenses paying attention to the personnel changes! PW struggles with touch and CP is at his best in these routes.

This from Peter King on his MOnday Morning QB column, seems to support my reference to CP strengths:

"Think of the previous third-and-five-yards-or-longer snaps for the Dolphins. In inverse order, here are the five in the second half that preceded this playcall: Third-and-seven, 21-yard pass to Ted Ginn; first down. Third-and-five, 15-yard pass to Ginn; first down. Third-and-six, seven-yard pass to Ginn; first down. Third-and-seven, incomplete pass to Ronnie Brown. Third-and-five, 10-yard pass to Ginn; first down. All five were passes. Pennington completed four of them, all first-down conversions."


Now, most likely PW would not have hit those same throws. But our game plan called on Chad to throw only when needed as the 'Cat was working and again our strengths are our running game, our QB's efficiency and our flexibility to vary the offensive set.


I believe that is putting our best athletes or playmakers in not only to get them on the field but also to play to their strengths..... Your thoughts?:
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and we still lose due to a poor defense
 
our two plays with pat white in against the colts resulted in zero yards.

at that rate.... we could play pat white for 100 plays and have zero yards.

so far not worth the second round pick, and furthermore, we deactivate henne, and pat white would have been in there far more than two plays had penny gone down.

so to summarize.... don't play pat white.
 
our two plays with pat white in against the colts resulted in zero yards.

at that rate.... we could play pat white for 100 plays and have zero yards.

so far not worth the second round pick, and furthermore, we deactivate henne, and pat white would have been in there far more than two plays had penny gone down.

so to summarize.... don't play pat white.

I guess to summarize the consensus here then, it is Pat White's fault that on his two hand off's Ricky Williams did not gain a yard. Simple question then. Do you think that the rushing yards we did gain when Pennington was handing off had anything to do with the fact that it was Penny handing off?! Or do you think that perhaps the blocking and/or running was better? Now over time with the threat of throwing over the top of the safety (something Penny can't do with velocity) do you think the safeties will have to respect the fact that Ginn can get deep and PW could actually perhaps even hit him? Will the safeties still cheat up because we are a "run based" offense?
My comments, you see are not so much that Pat White is a better QB or not than Penny. My comments and suggestions are more about keeping the defense honest on first and second downs and bringing in Penny when required for 3rd downs or end of half/game drives. If we are indeed an offense that is a run first offense at least there would remain the threat of going deep on the downs that offenses typically go deep. (1st and second). Unless you think that Penny is an adequate threat to go deep on 1st or second and therefore the safeties can't afford to cheat up for likely run support or the often relied upon dink or dunk pass that Penny likes to hit.

The problem with the use of PW is that we've tried to use him as a dual threat. He's not after-all a threat to run in a designed manner unless it's a naked bootleg or the like. He's really only a threat to run when he decides noone is open and he then decides to tuck it up and run on what are suppose to be pass plays.

If the bulk of his plays are handing off, he should be able to handle this and all the while at least again, carry the threat of the long ball. And at the receiver position in the wildcat he certainly poses a greater threat at both blocking and/or receiving and is equal to passing in this situation. The real and obvious runners in the Wildcat have and will remain the big three backs. (RB,RW, and PC)
 
I personally think we should play him on 5th down. I must say though I have never seen a qb handoff so damn well. Henne could never do that
 
i wish everyone would quit dreaming and wake up and realize pat white is not a nfl qb and will never amount to anything in this league.....this draft pick was worse than the 9 for ginn

You might be right. At least at 9 we got an every down player - albeit a major disappointment of one.

White at 44 was ludicrosity. We all knew it. We all still know it. And now we live with it. Chalk it up to the rest of the 10 years of roster decision futility. It is a major miracle the team is even competitive at all with the conglomerate of decisions that have been made from 2000-2009.
 
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