Players with Mental Health Illness: At what point should a player play or not play?

[twix2500]

Now that its pretty much out there that Jonathan Martin does have a mental health issue. Talks of suicide, locking himself on a boat crying are major major warnings. We have seen throughout football history players and mental illness displayed in terrible outcomes. From Alonzo Spellman locking himself in a house with guns (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page...s-fast-loses-everything-espn-magazine-archive) to Jovan Belcher murder/suicide (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...ayer-killed-girlfriend-exhumed-brain-research), all mental illnesses of former football players gone terribly wrong. I read many of you saying Jonathan Martin deserves a second chance, because you see sympathy for a guy who is weak. But truly, is that what he really needs? At what point do you decide that a person with mentally health issues is allow to play through it or when do you say no this is not a healthy environment for him? If you allow a player to play, how do you manage the environment so it can be conducive to his needs? If you do not allow him to play, at what point do you make that determination.

Once the illness is discovered, I think its much safer for the player to be let go when talks about the risk of losing life/suicide, instead of having the next Alonzo Spellman or even worse the next Jovan Belcher.

 

[123phins]

It depends really, In martins case the culture and pressure made him crack and on the other side you have a guy like Brandon Marshall who just has some outbursts every once and a while.

 

[dlockz]

Maybe Im biased but its not like MArtin is a cop or a soldier and having people's lives in his hands. He does need help and if a mental professional feels he can play football then who am I to say different. If he is depressed football or not he may be a danger to himself.

 

[twix2500]

Maybe Im biased but its not like MArtin is a cop or a soldier and having people's lives in his hands. He does need help and if a mental professional feels he can play football then who am I to say different. If he is depressed football or not he may be a danger to himself.

If you are an owner of a team, you do have a lot to say. You have people, coaches in places to make those decision all the time, because at the end of the day if something happens you are going to get the blame.

 

[dlockz]

If you are an owner of a team, you do have a lot to say. You have people, coaches in places to make those decision all the time, because at the end of the day if something happens you are going to get the blame.

Well you get some of the blame regardless fair or not. I think if an owner or coach thinks a guy has a mental issue he should let a professional evaluate and then go on their recommendation. No owner or coach is qualified to determine what should be done unless he has a degree in that area of expertise.

 

[LANGER72]

Anyone that talks about suicide should be Baker Acted. If he is ready to off himself, it is not a stretch to think he could take others with him.
I would not want him on this team, even if he was a good player. The risk is too high.

 

[dlockz]

Anyone that talks about suicide should be Baker Acted. If he is ready to off himself, it is not a stretch to think he could take others with him.
I would not want him on this team, even if he was a good player. The risk is too high.

Even when someone is baker acted they are not held forever in fact its usually minimal time. most of the time they still end up keeping their jobs.
none of us really know the risk on martin because none of us are professionals in this arena. I do agree that I wouldn't really want a guy like MArtin or Incognito on my team.
Team 4 to kick Incognito off the team, its not a coincidence no matter what his cohorts and supporters say

 

[xXwarXx]

We see it over and over, saw it with Titus young amongst others.

In sports, especially professionally there's just little care about mental health. In America in general it's just something we don't put much attention to which is unfortunate. A lot of these athletes have mental issues, some of them are great because of them. Some of them eventually break down.

We all remember Brandon Marshall. He should of been put in a institution after that whole stabbing incident. Instead cops let it go, we all acted like everything was fine, and wanted him back on the field, and chi traded for him.

No one cared he was bipolar and could self destruct at anytime. Were all guilty. It's worse for rich people too, no one wants to tell them the truth, where as poor people just don't have the means to do much about it.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

Thank you for the thread.

Under the Americans with Disability Act, it is against the law to fire someone with a mental or emotional illness. However, when an employee is unable to perform the duties required for job or is exhibiting unacceptable behavior, the employer can force the employee to see a psychiatrist.

In regards to law, it would be very interesting to see if a judge would consider a trade as a firing. I hope we're not the subject for a precedent but it would be very interesting.

Martin deserves a second chance. Every one does. Nonetheless, it has to be accompanied with dedicated psychiatric care or not all.

Dan Le Batard makes the argument that if you suffer from being weak, for whatever reason, this is not the occupation for you. I agree. Untreated and in some cases even treated depression gets worse with age.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

Anyone that talks about suicide should be Baker Acted. If he is ready to off himself, it is not a stretch to think he could take others with him.
I would not want him on this team, even if he was a good player. The risk is too high.

Talks of suicide can also be a cry for help in which case the Baker Act may cause more damage than help.

**************Very interesting study worth the read: ***************

I forget most of the minor details but a group of psychology students decided to Baker Act themselves as a study for their thesis. All went to different facilities. I forget the name of the theory but it was founded on mental healthcare employees treating patients by the label a patient was given. The students played the role for about 2 weeks and then confessed to the doctors that it was all a part of a study. The doctors, of course, did not believe them. And even though the students dropped their role and began to act as the healthy individuals they are, the doctors did not believe them. Every action after the fact was attributed to their psychosis. The students would take their note pads to sessions to continue their documentation of the study and doctors explained, "its all a part of the psychosis". Some students would wait for lunch by the cafeteria sitting near the doors due to boredom and "its all a part of the psychosis". Interesting thing of all, it was the patients that would tell the students, "You're not crazy, are you? You dont belong here." It turned out to be a terrible idea as a study. It took one of the students 3 months to get released.

Talk of suicide must always be treated with the urgency of needing the Baker Act but they must be diagnosed and treated before taking such action.

People who really want to commit suicide dont talk about it- see poor Junior Seau.

 

[OnDaChainWax]

Thanks to all posters.

Mental illness has a stigma attached to it and it shouldnt. One of the stigmas is considering the person being weak in character. Most athletes grow up being told "walk it off" or my favorite line from the Program, "Are you injured or are you hurt?" Mental illness in not a weakness in character. It is a terrible illness that requires medical attention. You cannot walk it off.

Having said that, I still blame Martin. Yes, it was due to a mental illness but its still his doing especially that he was self-aware of his illness. When you know you have realized that you suffer from depression, at the thought of suicide, you have to be smart enough to get help and Martin is an educated man. He already had taken the most important step, admitting it to yourself.

 

[spiketex]

While Ireland talked about building the team around good character guys, he seems to have a flair for finding players with mental health issues - Incognito (clearly bipolar), Martin (clinical depression), Brandon Marshall (borderline personality disorder), Davone Bess (clinical depression, probably a lot more issues), etc.
It seems like mental health professionals need to evaluate the players. Ireland and his team could evaluate the on the field play and identify the talent, but it seems like Jeff's blind spot was mental health. I wonder if Ireland was also responsible for finding the 84 year old semi-retired psychiatrist who invited J-Mart over for BBQ? It's almost like the team should employ it's own professional psychologist to identify which players are potentially more at risk of serious mental health related issues.

 

[kellyh3034]

I've been saying Martin should be blamed along with Cog's. He should be. But his parents should be blamed also. They knew of their child's emotional problems. I'm not saying they did not do anything but they did not do enough. I'd be willing to bet that most of the public knowledge of the events was spearheaded by them to protect their son and the money. Is Martin seeking help now to deal with his issues? If he isn't that should tell everyone something.

 

[tcdrover]

Pro Football is a HIGH pressure sport. Their jobs are to work out basically all year and compete in a physical, draining rough sport.

They get critiqued on EVERYTHING that they do, every week in front of their individual squads.

You take all that into account and it doesn't seem like anyone with mental issues should be playing, but many players with issues have played in the past and been successful.

The REAL danger is the risk to their health and lives AFTER their careers are over if they are able to play well enough to overcome their issues.

One of the main syndromes is depression and suicidal thoughts. if a player ALREADY suffers from that BEFORE getting repeatedly hit in the head,

what do you think their health will be like after their careers are over?

Is it possible that he is this way as a result of concussions in High school?

 

[trojanma]

Pro Football is a HIGH pressure sport. Their jobs are to work out basically all year and compete in a physical, draining rough sport.

They get critiqued on EVERYTHING that they do, every week in front of their individual squads.

You take all that into account and it doesn't seem like anyone with mental issues should be playing, but many players with issues have played in the past and been successful.

The REAL danger is the risk to their health and lives AFTER their careers are over if they are able to play well enough to overcome their issues.

One of the main syndromes is depression and suicidal thoughts. if a player ALREADY suffers from that BEFORE getting repeatedly hit in the head,

what do you think their health will be like after their careers are over?

Is it possible that he is this way as a result of concussions in High school?

Very important points.

1. First and foremost I the idea of saying that it is Martin's fault for playing because he was too weak and should have known that is absurdly false.
2. I am certain that not everyone "knows" they can't cut it or handle it until they hit a situation which puts them over the edge. There is no way you will be able to screen/vet out the people who want to play in the NFL that are at risk for outcomes like Jon Martin.
3. When you add the possible connection of CTE to mental health this takes on a whole new dimension, especially when you start thinking about what happened to Kenny Mckinley or Jovan Belcher.