I love the guys from Cincy, and Id like to see if James Jones (GB) can be our #2. He will be a cheaper option and maybe we can give them Hartline also. I think we get Flynn over Manning, but only because I have doubts Manning will bounce back. Id love Manning but I just dont see him coming back. I think we pass on R. Grant but pick up any possible FA Olinemen from GB.
Possible FA signings because of OC & DC history
- Thread starter newlife2788
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Golphindolphin
town drunk
Not a big fan of giving up a guy who makes tough catches for a guy who drops easy ones.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
I think this is a good discussion. I can't see anyone that Coyle or Sherman would try and grab on the basis of what they did in college. Coyle was last at Fresno State in 2000 and Sherman's first year at Texas A&M was 2008. Therefore, the first Draft class that Sherman could have coached would be from the 2009 class (Stephen McGee) and that class has only been in the NFL for three years which means they're not unrestricted free agents anyway.
So you really just have to look through some old Bengals, Texans and Packers rosters in order to see some guys that kind of populate those rosters and may be available. A couple of guys stand out:
1. DE/LB Manny Lawson - This is the first elephant in the room guy. Not only did Kevin Coyle get good work out of Manny as a free agent in 2011, but Jeff Ireland was rumored to really want a piece of Lawson in free agency that year. Coming out of San Fran, his pass rush reputation probably was a little overrated. He's lengthy and athletic but not all that interesting as a pass rusher. I preferred Antwan Barnes for that role. Where Lawson stood out to me is where he made a real impact for the Bengals this year and that was run stopping. He's a good blitzer, but when it came to having someone put their hand down and rush, I think they liked Michael Johnson more for that. Miami doesn't even have a Michael Johnson for that, though. In Miami, Lawson could not only play his Sam role and impact the game as a run stopper, but where he came off the field for the Bengals in nickel, he might stay on and pass rush opposite Cam Wake, depending on what other players we can get hold of in the draft. I would like the Dolphins personally to get a true Mike but the Dolphins may be thinking that Karlos Dansby or Kevin Burnett should be able to fill that role. That would allow room for Lawson to play Sam here.
2. FS Reggie Nelson - This is the second elephant in the room guy, considering how Kevin Coyle picked Nelson up off the scrap heap in Jacksonville and actually turned him into something less than terrible this year. I haven't really dug into him but I remember that I did like him coming out of Florida and his PFF ratings from this year are decent. He had 4 interceptions this year at free safety and he might be starting to 'get it'. The last two years he's been thrown at 55 times, with 32 catches for 462 yards, 2 TDs and 6 INTs with 8 additional PBUs. That's pretty good for 891 pass snaps. This position is an area of weakness for Miami. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what we think. It matters what they think.
3. TE Donald Lee - He's currently on the Cincinnati Bengals which means Kevin Coyle has gotten to see him practice, but he used to be on the Green Bay Packers as well. He played for Joe Philbin and Mike Sherman over in Green Bay, and now he's playing on Kevin Coyle's team in Cincinnati. He also used to play for the Dolphins, if you remember he had a tough time catching the ball. He was one of those guys the Dolphins gave up on too soon, went on to a nice little career elsewhere. He should be considered a strong candidate to add as a #3 Tight End, especially given the priority we saw Green Bay place on that position under Philbin in recent years. They rostered five Tight Ends this year. Miami only has two rosterable Tight Ends.
4. DE Frostee Rucker - If I'm not mistaken, Frostee has been more of a 1st/2nd down type of Defensive End over in Cincinnati. With the Dolphins probably moving to a 4-3, the Dolphins have a need for that type of player. I don't know that you can get away with just signing Kendall Langford back to play that spot, or moving Jared Odrick out to that spot. I think Odrick needs to be playing inside and Langford should probably continue playing the 3-4 that he's played since college. The Dolphins may have to spend some resources in this draft on the QB position, and that could see them trying to fill roles like this with mid level free agents like Rucker.
5. TE Joel Dreessen - Continuing on with the Tight End position, Dreessen is a guy that played for Mike Sherman for two years in Houston before Sherman went on to Texas A&M. He's got value as both a long snapper and a backup Tight End. He is a well rounded Tight End that has consistently gotten positive marks for blocking, which is actually kind of rare on PFF for a Tight End.
6. G/C Scott Wells - This potential addition has been talked about, but I don't find it all that likely. He's likely to command a fairly big contract and the Dolphins may not have the ability to pay those big contracts. It's hard to see him anywhere but Green Bay, honestly. But if the Dolphins do bite, I wonder if people have the position wrong. Wells played Guard back when Mike Sherman was in Green Bay and the team had Mike Flanagan. Sherman brought Flanagan with him to Houston, and that is when Wells took over at Center for the Packers. I think the Dolphins have a guy in Mike Pouncey that they want to groom to be the Center for a long time. The position is so mental/developmental in nature I wonder why you'd want to screw with a young guy's development by switching him all around. Most importantly, I don't see Jeff Ireland getting with the program on that. He didn't take Pouncey #15 overall to screw with him. But Philbin and Sherman could conceivably convince Ireland to grab Wells with the idea of him playing Left Guard, while Incognito moves to Right Guard and Pouncey stays in the middle. But could they conivnce Wells to sign on for that? Again, not a high likelihood.
6. CB Fred Bennett - This is a guy that I liked coming out of South Carolina in the Draft. He was drafted by the Texans in the 4th round back in 2007, one of the years Mike Sherman was Offensive Coordinator and Assistant Head Coach there. That rookie year, Bennett ended up replacing an injured Dunta Robinson, and had 62 tackles and 3 interceptions as a rookie. His playing time diminished in 2008 and 2009, and he was waived by Houston before the 2010 season. The Chargers picked him up and then quickly waived him, and then the Bengals picked him up in 2010 to replace injured Jonathan Joseph. He got barely any playing time and was waived again just prior to the 2011 season. The Cardinals picked him up for a week just to take a look at him and didn't like him. I just wonder what Kevin Coyle thinks of him, and also what Mike Sherman thinks of him considering how he played as a rookie for that 2007 Houston team. Miami needs depth at this position, and I see no problem giving a guy like Bennett a bare bones contract to be camp fodder.
7. LB Brandon Johnson - Brandon is a Will backer that has been a solid, but not great linebacker for the Bengals. He's had his spot taken by Thomas Howard and while I wouldn't necessarily say Howard played better than Johnson, Howard did end up taking more snaps than any other linebacker this year and was really relied upon in coverage. I have Johnson a bit down the list for a reason. He's been mostly used by Coyle as a coverage and nickel down player. Coyle arguably already has those roles zipped up with Kevin Burnett and Karlos Dansby.
So you really just have to look through some old Bengals, Texans and Packers rosters in order to see some guys that kind of populate those rosters and may be available. A couple of guys stand out:
1. DE/LB Manny Lawson - This is the first elephant in the room guy. Not only did Kevin Coyle get good work out of Manny as a free agent in 2011, but Jeff Ireland was rumored to really want a piece of Lawson in free agency that year. Coming out of San Fran, his pass rush reputation probably was a little overrated. He's lengthy and athletic but not all that interesting as a pass rusher. I preferred Antwan Barnes for that role. Where Lawson stood out to me is where he made a real impact for the Bengals this year and that was run stopping. He's a good blitzer, but when it came to having someone put their hand down and rush, I think they liked Michael Johnson more for that. Miami doesn't even have a Michael Johnson for that, though. In Miami, Lawson could not only play his Sam role and impact the game as a run stopper, but where he came off the field for the Bengals in nickel, he might stay on and pass rush opposite Cam Wake, depending on what other players we can get hold of in the draft. I would like the Dolphins personally to get a true Mike but the Dolphins may be thinking that Karlos Dansby or Kevin Burnett should be able to fill that role. That would allow room for Lawson to play Sam here.
2. FS Reggie Nelson - This is the second elephant in the room guy, considering how Kevin Coyle picked Nelson up off the scrap heap in Jacksonville and actually turned him into something less than terrible this year. I haven't really dug into him but I remember that I did like him coming out of Florida and his PFF ratings from this year are decent. He had 4 interceptions this year at free safety and he might be starting to 'get it'. The last two years he's been thrown at 55 times, with 32 catches for 462 yards, 2 TDs and 6 INTs with 8 additional PBUs. That's pretty good for 891 pass snaps. This position is an area of weakness for Miami. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what we think. It matters what they think.
3. TE Donald Lee - He's currently on the Cincinnati Bengals which means Kevin Coyle has gotten to see him practice, but he used to be on the Green Bay Packers as well. He played for Joe Philbin and Mike Sherman over in Green Bay, and now he's playing on Kevin Coyle's team in Cincinnati. He also used to play for the Dolphins, if you remember he had a tough time catching the ball. He was one of those guys the Dolphins gave up on too soon, went on to a nice little career elsewhere. He should be considered a strong candidate to add as a #3 Tight End, especially given the priority we saw Green Bay place on that position under Philbin in recent years. They rostered five Tight Ends this year. Miami only has two rosterable Tight Ends.
4. DE Frostee Rucker - If I'm not mistaken, Frostee has been more of a 1st/2nd down type of Defensive End over in Cincinnati. With the Dolphins probably moving to a 4-3, the Dolphins have a need for that type of player. I don't know that you can get away with just signing Kendall Langford back to play that spot, or moving Jared Odrick out to that spot. I think Odrick needs to be playing inside and Langford should probably continue playing the 3-4 that he's played since college. The Dolphins may have to spend some resources in this draft on the QB position, and that could see them trying to fill roles like this with mid level free agents like Rucker.
5. TE Joel Dreessen - Continuing on with the Tight End position, Dreessen is a guy that played for Mike Sherman for two years in Houston before Sherman went on to Texas A&M. He's got value as both a long snapper and a backup Tight End. He is a well rounded Tight End that has consistently gotten positive marks for blocking, which is actually kind of rare on PFF for a Tight End.
6. G/C Scott Wells - This potential addition has been talked about, but I don't find it all that likely. He's likely to command a fairly big contract and the Dolphins may not have the ability to pay those big contracts. It's hard to see him anywhere but Green Bay, honestly. But if the Dolphins do bite, I wonder if people have the position wrong. Wells played Guard back when Mike Sherman was in Green Bay and the team had Mike Flanagan. Sherman brought Flanagan with him to Houston, and that is when Wells took over at Center for the Packers. I think the Dolphins have a guy in Mike Pouncey that they want to groom to be the Center for a long time. The position is so mental/developmental in nature I wonder why you'd want to screw with a young guy's development by switching him all around. Most importantly, I don't see Jeff Ireland getting with the program on that. He didn't take Pouncey #15 overall to screw with him. But Philbin and Sherman could conceivably convince Ireland to grab Wells with the idea of him playing Left Guard, while Incognito moves to Right Guard and Pouncey stays in the middle. But could they conivnce Wells to sign on for that? Again, not a high likelihood.
6. CB Fred Bennett - This is a guy that I liked coming out of South Carolina in the Draft. He was drafted by the Texans in the 4th round back in 2007, one of the years Mike Sherman was Offensive Coordinator and Assistant Head Coach there. That rookie year, Bennett ended up replacing an injured Dunta Robinson, and had 62 tackles and 3 interceptions as a rookie. His playing time diminished in 2008 and 2009, and he was waived by Houston before the 2010 season. The Chargers picked him up and then quickly waived him, and then the Bengals picked him up in 2010 to replace injured Jonathan Joseph. He got barely any playing time and was waived again just prior to the 2011 season. The Cardinals picked him up for a week just to take a look at him and didn't like him. I just wonder what Kevin Coyle thinks of him, and also what Mike Sherman thinks of him considering how he played as a rookie for that 2007 Houston team. Miami needs depth at this position, and I see no problem giving a guy like Bennett a bare bones contract to be camp fodder.
7. LB Brandon Johnson - Brandon is a Will backer that has been a solid, but not great linebacker for the Bengals. He's had his spot taken by Thomas Howard and while I wouldn't necessarily say Howard played better than Johnson, Howard did end up taking more snaps than any other linebacker this year and was really relied upon in coverage. I have Johnson a bit down the list for a reason. He's been mostly used by Coyle as a coverage and nickel down player. Coyle arguably already has those roles zipped up with Kevin Burnett and Karlos Dansby.
Austin Tatious
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Good stuff. I agree with you, CK, on Wells. Heck of a player, but I don't expect Miami to get more than one front tier free agent, and I view Wells in that category. I expect one top tier FA (clear starter), maybe 1-2 mid level types (compete to start, role players), and a couple of low-end of the roster depth types. That's it. Say we get Flynn. I don't think you couple Flynn with a Nicks or Wells or anyone like that.
Wells, however, to me is instructive on another level. I see him as a movement guy. Miami's two guards last year were mauler, phone booth types. I think Philbin would love to get his hands on a more mobile guard.
By the way, after Fasano, who do you have as the second rosterable TE? You thinking Clay there, or the big stiff out of Kansas State? I really like Clay. He can be a real weapon, but technically he was a FB last year.
Wells, however, to me is instructive on another level. I see him as a movement guy. Miami's two guards last year were mauler, phone booth types. I think Philbin would love to get his hands on a more mobile guard.
By the way, after Fasano, who do you have as the second rosterable TE? You thinking Clay there, or the big stiff out of Kansas State? I really like Clay. He can be a real weapon, but technically he was a FB last year.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Definitely Charles Clay. And it wouldn't shock me if Miami didn't sign ANY higher profile free agents.
I don't consider Manny Lawson, Reggie Nelson or Anthony Collins to be higher profile free agents.
A year ago, Reggie Nelson was a bust in Jacksonville. I think he still took some off angles in Cincinnati this year, although the work Coyle did with him turning his play around was very impressive. Miami has a need here and Nelson might be the fit.
Last off season I think many people expected Manny Lawson to sign a big contract but the reality was he only got a 1 year, $3 million deal from Cincinnati, and the manner in which Cincinnati used him (two-down SAM backer) indicated that he may have been lucky to get that much. He didn't prove anything this year by going out and succeeding in the areas that could get him paid more (pass rush or pass coverage). He was a run stopping, two down SAM backer. Those guys rarely get money. But, Miami may have a use for him. In Miami, he'd not only be a better run stopping, two down SAM backer than Koa Misi (my opinion), he'd also be the best pass rusher on the team (at the moment) not named Cam Wake. He would have a chance to earn some appearances on 3rd downs and in nickel packages as a pass rusher, and that would give him the opportunity to show people in the league he deserves more money. It wouldn't be ideal for Miami, you'd rather have a better pass rusher opposite Wake, but that's why you DRAFT players and develop them. And unless another Antwan Barnes comes strolling along ready to produce 11 sacks for $1.5 million a year...then you're going to have to draft and develop in order to get that next big time pass rusher. Unless you want to pay out the *** for Mario Williams and then have to cut a bunch of players in order to make his contract fit under the cap.
And Anthony Collins, not sure that could be considered a big time signing when he was benched for Andre Smith this year.
So I think that trio of players would be very acquirable, would take a LOT of pressure off Miami in the Draft to fill needs, and they could be in a better position to just draft really good football players.
I don't consider Manny Lawson, Reggie Nelson or Anthony Collins to be higher profile free agents.
A year ago, Reggie Nelson was a bust in Jacksonville. I think he still took some off angles in Cincinnati this year, although the work Coyle did with him turning his play around was very impressive. Miami has a need here and Nelson might be the fit.
Last off season I think many people expected Manny Lawson to sign a big contract but the reality was he only got a 1 year, $3 million deal from Cincinnati, and the manner in which Cincinnati used him (two-down SAM backer) indicated that he may have been lucky to get that much. He didn't prove anything this year by going out and succeeding in the areas that could get him paid more (pass rush or pass coverage). He was a run stopping, two down SAM backer. Those guys rarely get money. But, Miami may have a use for him. In Miami, he'd not only be a better run stopping, two down SAM backer than Koa Misi (my opinion), he'd also be the best pass rusher on the team (at the moment) not named Cam Wake. He would have a chance to earn some appearances on 3rd downs and in nickel packages as a pass rusher, and that would give him the opportunity to show people in the league he deserves more money. It wouldn't be ideal for Miami, you'd rather have a better pass rusher opposite Wake, but that's why you DRAFT players and develop them. And unless another Antwan Barnes comes strolling along ready to produce 11 sacks for $1.5 million a year...then you're going to have to draft and develop in order to get that next big time pass rusher. Unless you want to pay out the *** for Mario Williams and then have to cut a bunch of players in order to make his contract fit under the cap.
And Anthony Collins, not sure that could be considered a big time signing when he was benched for Andre Smith this year.
So I think that trio of players would be very acquirable, would take a LOT of pressure off Miami in the Draft to fill needs, and they could be in a better position to just draft really good football players.
hoops
Tua time!
just about all those guys are waste of money or past their prime...the only good thing about any of em imo is they should all come pretty cheap...with the exception being maybe scott wells...manny lawson hasn't done anything that i'm aware of in 2 years worth getting excited about maybe you pluck for a 1 year vet minimum contract if he's willing to take it if not tell him to pound sand reggie nelson is best case average to date and thats probably generous donald lee and frostee rucker have got to be 100 years old joel dreesen ehhh...maybe on a 1 year deal and cheap at that brandon johnson unfulfilled promise his whole career to my recollection...the bennett guy sounds like camp fodder
waste of money imo...
Phinatic8u
Club Member
Reggie Nelson is better than any FS in the draft or on our team..
hoops
Tua time!
better at avoiding contact...reggie nelson has been a bust everywhere except for cinci where he was pretty average...you pay that guy real money as a free safety so called "upgrade" your nuts
1 year deal to compete i got no issue with but the money would have to be real right...that said coyle may get the most out of him but i wouldn't go checking off free safety as good to go for the future if reggie nelson was patrolling the deep middle
meh i agree with hoops, cant really turn away competition but i don't see anything special. absolutely don't want to give out any gibril wilson contracts. lets see what coyle does with clemons and jones. also bell is a dolphin through and through, a respected leader. hell take a paycut if needed
Phinatic8u
Club Member
And we got the guy that has made him decent as our DC now, no reason why he can't keep improving with Coyle.
I would also never pay Nelson a huge contract either. But based on FS prospects in the draft and on our team, he's better.
Phinatic8u
Club Member
But with that said, he may make Clemons and Jones legit, especially Jones at SS.
Phinatic8u
Club Member
He did have a very promising rookie campaign, so he's proven to have a damn solid season. I wouldn't mind him.
RocKStaR
Scout Team
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.. Thats amazing..
hoops
Tua time!
coyle and/or zimmer must be pretty damn near brilliant to get away with the likes of chris crocker, reggie nelson and gibril wilson in the 2 deep at db...i don't know how that happens
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Not every player on the team can be a super star. The DL alone needs 1600 more snaps if the Dolphins are switching to a 4-3 from a 3-4 AND losing guys like Soliai, Langford and Merling via free agency. How are you going to fill those snaps, within the confines of the salary cap, where the Dolphins are already nearly at the cap?
Are we now playing fantasy football where we can just casually declare that we should sign Mario Williams and Paul Soliai, and then draft Markelle Martin. Oh yeah, let's also grab Matt Flynn and draft Ryan Tannehill (to be sure), and then definitely we gotta sign Carl Nicks and Doug Free, while we're at it.
Are we now playing fantasy football where we can just casually declare that we should sign Mario Williams and Paul Soliai, and then draft Markelle Martin. Oh yeah, let's also grab Matt Flynn and draft Ryan Tannehill (to be sure), and then definitely we gotta sign Carl Nicks and Doug Free, while we're at it.