Pre-season Group Position Battles: Interior Offensive Line | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Pre-season Group Position Battles: Interior Offensive Line

Feverdream

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Welcome back my brothers; today we will try to make some sense out of the position group with the least amount of pre-season clarity, the interior positions on the O-line.
There isn't an area on the Dolphins roster that has a greater disconnect between what the coaches believe and what the fans think than with this group of players. The coaching staff believes we have enough to compete, while a good portion of our fanbase is undergoing outright panic at the thought that we're going to war with this roster.

If you read the earlier section covering Offensive Tackles, you are probably familiar with my take on the greater importance on finding and maintaining Tackles rather than Guards, so I doubt that many will be surprised that I am siding with the coaches here. I think that barring a rash of injuries, we do, indeed, have enough.

At Center, we signed Aaron Brewer in free agency, and he is a very similar player to last year's starter, Connor Williams. His game is speed and quick feet. He's the very prototype for a zone-blocking system. Yes, he is a bit smaller than average, and No, he is not going to maul anyone in a power system but if you want your Center to get to his marks on the second level, and spring our backs for big runs, Brewer could be an actual upgrade over Williams.
Many of the louder brothers have wrung their hands over Brewer's supposed inability to pass-block... freely ignoring the fact that Brewer was completely miscast in Tennessee, where he played in front of a bruiser RB and a QB known to have very poor pocket awareness as well as a career-long tendency to hold onto the ball much, much too long.
Neither will be the case in Miami... this is a 100% zone-blocking team with a quick strike attack formula. Aaron won't be asked to hold his blocks forever and the brothers who miss this fact just want the Phins to play a completely different style of football. Aaron Brewer is a glove-fit player who comes to us on a very reasonable contract. My prediction... by midseason, those complaining will have come around, and as a bonus, unlike Connor Williams, Brewer has not had multiple knee surgeries.

That's the clearest part of our IOL. At Guard, we have a collection of guys who played Tackle in college and again early in their career. Jack Driscoll and Liam Eichenberg are thought to be competing to start at RG, while most assume that Isaiah Wynn is the tentative starter at LG, and that's probably accurate, but there is one big caution here-- Isaiah Wynn is THE most injury prone player on the Miami football team. Yes, worse than Terron Armstead.
For a younger player, he has missed an astonishing number of games... and that's why I suspect that Robert Jones will not be part of the RG competition. I think he'll be slotted almost exclusively at LG, the spot he played at the end of last year. Hell, Wynn was our weak link BEFORE he was injured, putting up a PFF score of only 47.8. If Wynn is not 100% ready to go, Jones may be our starter. (Jones btw graded out at 60.9 across his play at the two Guard spots). Jones isn't a plus athlete, but he's a tough savvy player who answers the bell WAAAAAY more often than Isaiah Wynn.

Driscoll and Eichenberg are pretty close to having the exact same story. Both were College Tackles, drafted to play RT or failing that, Guard-- two men who've been bounced around their team's formations and never allowed to settle into one position. Both were ill-served by their team's needs to have their best 5 players on the field, even if they themselves were in the wrong spot... as a bonus, both players have had their biggest success at Guard, where Eichenberg had some really solid games last year before being forced to play Center and Driscoll had an excellent half year in 2021. Honestly... I wish that we'd have let Wynn walk and just installed these two in the Guard spots. These two are lunch pail players who I believe will surprise many here at FH. I expect the loser of this battle to back up at both RG and RT and that should give us continuity when a starter is down.

After these 5 players, there is a noticeable drop off... Lester (Josie) Cotton is an old-school power/gap blocker who is completely miscast in our system. He was, by far, our weakest link last year. Already 28, he has never been a starter in his career, indeed, he's rarely been a reserve. If he makes the team...shudder!

Chasen Hines stuck around on the Practice Squad last year after being a 6th round pick for New England. We invited him back for another year, so there must be something there. Before the draft, he was thought to be more of a power/gap style lineman so ultimately, he may not fit our system. I won't say no though, he must have impressed the coaches or he wouldn't be back for a second chance.

This year, we've brought in 3 UDFA C/G prospects: Ireland Brown from Rutgers, Andrew Meyer from UTEP, and the overaged Matthew Jones from Ohio St.
None of these three were highly regarded, although with Centers, sometimes they'll surprise you. Obviously Jones played at the highest level, but he looks more like a Guard than a Center to me, and is already 25, so you have to figure that he's close to maxed out.

If I had to bet on one of these sticking on the PS, and maybe even being active on a game day, I'd probably go with Meyer. He looks like the most mobile of the three and shares lot of the same characteristics as Brewer. He looks to be built for the zone blocking game.

Yep, I know that a lot of folks just loathe Liam Eichenberg... I get that, but I would put forward the idea that most of this has been completely out of his hands. Like Austin Jackson, he was a victim of lousy coaching and multiple position switches; at this point, he has started at all 5 line positions in his three years in the league, and he has never been allowed to focus on one spot.
Last year, the coaches had installed him ahead of Wynn, only to have him lose his spot with a minor camp foot injury... if Liam is healthy, he's got the potential to surprise. He'd be a great story... but so would Driscoll.

Like I mentioned earlier... I think these guys are better than most think, and I don't believe that either Risner or Van Roten would have been an upgrade, but I guess we'll see. There will be a lot of "I told you so" handed out either way.
 
Welcome back my brothers; today we will try to make some sense out of the position group with the least amount of pre-season clarity, the interior positions on the O-line.
There isn't an area on the Dolphins roster that has a greater disconnect between what the coaches believe and what the fans think than with this group of players. The coaching staff believes we have enough to compete, while a good portion of our fanbase is undergoing outright panic at the thought that we're going to war with this roster.

If you read the earlier section covering Offensive Tackles, you are probably familiar with my take on the greater importance on finding and maintaining Tackles rather than Guards, so I doubt that many will be surprised that I am siding with the coaches here. I think that barring a rash of injuries, we do, indeed, have enough.

At Center, we signed Aaron Brewer in free agency, and he is a very similar player to last year's starter, Connor Williams. His game is speed and quick feet. He's the very prototype for a zone-blocking system. Yes, he is a bit smaller than average, and No, he is not going to maul anyone in a power system but if you want your Center to get to his marks on the second level, and spring our backs for big runs, Brewer could be an actual upgrade over Williams.
Many of the louder brothers have wrung their hands over Brewer's supposed inability to pass-block... freely ignoring the fact that Brewer was completely miscast in Tennessee, where he played in front of a bruiser RB and a QB known to have very poor pocket awareness as well as a career-long tendency to hold onto the ball much, much too long.
Neither will be the case in Miami... this is a 100% zone-blocking team with a quick strike attack formula. Aaron won't be asked to hold his blocks forever and the brothers who miss this fact just want the Phins to play a completely different style of football. Aaron Brewer is a glove-fit player who comes to us on a very reasonable contract. My prediction... by midseason, those complaining will have come around, and as a bonus, unlike Connor Williams, Brewer has not had multiple knee surgeries.

That's the clearest part of our IOL. At Guard, we have a collection of guys who played Tackle in college and again early in their career. Jack Driscoll and Liam Eichenberg are thought to be competing to start at RG, while most assume that Isaiah Wynn is the tentative starter at LG, and that's probably accurate, but there is one big caution here-- Isaiah Wynn is THE most injury prone player on the Miami football team. Yes, worse than Terron Armstead.
For a younger player, he has missed an astonishing number of games... and that's why I suspect that Robert Jones will not be part of the RG competition. I think he'll be slotted almost exclusively at LG, the spot he played at the end of last year. Hell, Wynn was our weak link BEFORE he was injured, putting up a PFF score of only 47.8. If Wynn is not 100% ready to go, Jones may be our starter. (Jones btw graded out at 60.9 across his play at the two Guard spots). Jones isn't a plus athlete, but he's a tough savvy player who answers the bell WAAAAAY more often than Isaiah Wynn.

Driscoll and Eichenberg are pretty close to having the exact same story. Both were College Tackles, drafted to play RT or failing that, Guard-- two men who've been bounced around their team's formations and never allowed to settle into one position. Both were ill-served by their team's needs to have their best 5 players on the field, even if they themselves were in the wrong spot... as a bonus, both players have had their biggest success at Guard, where Eichenberg had some really solid games last year before being forced to play Center and Driscoll had an excellent half year in 2021. Honestly... I wish that we'd have let Wynn walk and just installed these two in the Guard spots. These two are lunch pail players who I believe will surprise many here at FH. I expect the loser of this battle to back up at both RG and RT and that should give us continuity when a starter is down.

After these 5 players, there is a noticeable drop off... Lester (Josie) Cotton is an old-school power/gap blocker who is completely miscast in our system. He was, by far, our weakest link last year. Already 28, he has never been a starter in his career, indeed, he's rarely been a reserve. If he makes the team...shudder!

Chasen Hines stuck around on the Practice Squad last year after being a 6th round pick for New England. We invited him back for another year, so there must be something there. Before the draft, he was thought to be more of a power/gap style lineman so ultimately, he may not fit our system. I won't say no though, he must have impressed the coaches or he wouldn't be back for a second chance.

This year, we've brought in 3 UDFA C/G prospects: Ireland Brown from Rutgers, Andrew Meyer from UTEP, and the overaged Matthew Jones from Ohio St.
None of these three were highly regarded, although with Centers, sometimes they'll surprise you. Obviously Jones played at the highest level, but he looks more like a Guard than a Center to me, and is already 25, so you have to figure that he's close to maxed out.

If I had to bet on one of these sticking on the PS, and maybe even being active on a game day, I'd probably go with Meyer. He looks like the most mobile of the three and shares lot of the same characteristics as Brewer. He looks to be built for the zone blocking game.

Yep, I know that a lot of folks just loathe Liam Eichenberg... I get that, but I would put forward the idea that most of this has been completely out of his hands. Like Austin Jackson, he was a victim of lousy coaching and multiple position switches; at this point, he has started at all 5 line positions in his three years in the league, and he has never been allowed to focus on one spot.
Last year, the coaches had installed him ahead of Wynn, only to have him lose his spot with a minor camp foot injury... if Liam is healthy, he's got the potential to surprise. He'd be a great story... but so would Driscoll.

Like I mentioned earlier... I think these guys are better than most think, and I don't believe that either Risner or Van Roten would have been an upgrade, but I guess we'll see. There will be a lot of "I told you so" handed out either way.
Thanks for excellent write up Fever. Much appreciated
 
My one concern is still backup center. Not sure we have that adequately covered yet.
It's pretty clear that the coaches agree with you. Bringing in three UDFAs who can or have played Center surely means they are looking for an answer. That's a LOT of bodies for just one position.
I'm going to pin my hopes on Meyer for now and watch him as camp plays out... I wont be surprised if we cut one of the three after a few days of camp and quickly pivot to... another pivot... maybe a street vet looking for a job.

Still... whoever we pick needs to be a zone blocking guy with foot speed. Our attack depends on that, and I think we suffered quite a lot when Liam was forced to play there. I think he's quite a bit taller than what we are looking for out of that spot.
 
Good stuff. I share your belief in Rob Jones. I think he’s getting his share of snaps and he’s adequate. He can get the job done.
I've come around on Jones. He's been better than I ever expected coming from Middle Tennessee State. He's yet another college Tackle whose best position is inside, and if he takes one more step forward, he could make a LOT of money.
 
Welcome back my brothers; today we will try to make some sense out of the position group with the least amount of pre-season clarity, the interior positions on the O-line.
There isn't an area on the Dolphins roster that has a greater disconnect between what the coaches believe and what the fans think than with this group of players. The coaching staff believes we have enough to compete, while a good portion of our fanbase is undergoing outright panic at the thought that we're going to war with this roster.

If you read the earlier section covering Offensive Tackles, you are probably familiar with my take on the greater importance on finding and maintaining Tackles rather than Guards, so I doubt that many will be surprised that I am siding with the coaches here. I think that barring a rash of injuries, we do, indeed, have enough.

At Center, we signed Aaron Brewer in free agency, and he is a very similar player to last year's starter, Connor Williams. His game is speed and quick feet. He's the very prototype for a zone-blocking system. Yes, he is a bit smaller than average, and No, he is not going to maul anyone in a power system but if you want your Center to get to his marks on the second level, and spring our backs for big runs, Brewer could be an actual upgrade over Williams.
Many of the louder brothers have wrung their hands over Brewer's supposed inability to pass-block... freely ignoring the fact that Brewer was completely miscast in Tennessee, where he played in front of a bruiser RB and a QB known to have very poor pocket awareness as well as a career-long tendency to hold onto the ball much, much too long.
Neither will be the case in Miami... this is a 100% zone-blocking team with a quick strike attack formula. Aaron won't be asked to hold his blocks forever and the brothers who miss this fact just want the Phins to play a completely different style of football. Aaron Brewer is a glove-fit player who comes to us on a very reasonable contract. My prediction... by midseason, those complaining will have come around, and as a bonus, unlike Connor Williams, Brewer has not had multiple knee surgeries.

That's the clearest part of our IOL. At Guard, we have a collection of guys who played Tackle in college and again early in their career. Jack Driscoll and Liam Eichenberg are thought to be competing to start at RG, while most assume that Isaiah Wynn is the tentative starter at LG, and that's probably accurate, but there is one big caution here-- Isaiah Wynn is THE most injury prone player on the Miami football team. Yes, worse than Terron Armstead.
For a younger player, he has missed an astonishing number of games... and that's why I suspect that Robert Jones will not be part of the RG competition. I think he'll be slotted almost exclusively at LG, the spot he played at the end of last year. Hell, Wynn was our weak link BEFORE he was injured, putting up a PFF score of only 47.8. If Wynn is not 100% ready to go, Jones may be our starter. (Jones btw graded out at 60.9 across his play at the two Guard spots). Jones isn't a plus athlete, but he's a tough savvy player who answers the bell WAAAAAY more often than Isaiah Wynn.

Driscoll and Eichenberg are pretty close to having the exact same story. Both were College Tackles, drafted to play RT or failing that, Guard-- two men who've been bounced around their team's formations and never allowed to settle into one position. Both were ill-served by their team's needs to have their best 5 players on the field, even if they themselves were in the wrong spot... as a bonus, both players have had their biggest success at Guard, where Eichenberg had some really solid games last year before being forced to play Center and Driscoll had an excellent half year in 2021. Honestly... I wish that we'd have let Wynn walk and just installed these two in the Guard spots. These two are lunch pail players who I believe will surprise many here at FH. I expect the loser of this battle to back up at both RG and RT and that should give us continuity when a starter is down.

After these 5 players, there is a noticeable drop off... Lester (Josie) Cotton is an old-school power/gap blocker who is completely miscast in our system. He was, by far, our weakest link last year. Already 28, he has never been a starter in his career, indeed, he's rarely been a reserve. If he makes the team...shudder!

Chasen Hines stuck around on the Practice Squad last year after being a 6th round pick for New England. We invited him back for another year, so there must be something there. Before the draft, he was thought to be more of a power/gap style lineman so ultimately, he may not fit our system. I won't say no though, he must have impressed the coaches or he wouldn't be back for a second chance.

This year, we've brought in 3 UDFA C/G prospects: Ireland Brown from Rutgers, Andrew Meyer from UTEP, and the overaged Matthew Jones from Ohio St.
None of these three were highly regarded, although with Centers, sometimes they'll surprise you. Obviously Jones played at the highest level, but he looks more like a Guard than a Center to me, and is already 25, so you have to figure that he's close to maxed out.

If I had to bet on one of these sticking on the PS, and maybe even being active on a game day, I'd probably go with Meyer. He looks like the most mobile of the three and shares lot of the same characteristics as Brewer. He looks to be built for the zone blocking game.

Yep, I know that a lot of folks just loathe Liam Eichenberg... I get that, but I would put forward the idea that most of this has been completely out of his hands. Like Austin Jackson, he was a victim of lousy coaching and multiple position switches; at this point, he has started at all 5 line positions in his three years in the league, and he has never been allowed to focus on one spot.
Last year, the coaches had installed him ahead of Wynn, only to have him lose his spot with a minor camp foot injury... if Liam is healthy, he's got the potential to surprise. He'd be a great story... but so would Driscoll.

Like I mentioned earlier... I think these guys are better than most think, and I don't believe that either Risner or Van Roten would have been an upgrade, but I guess we'll see. There will be a lot of "I told you so" handed out either way.
Really good stuff, as usual @Feverdream . I agree wholeheartedly on Brewer, the Phins had a front row seat in the Monday nighter against the Titans, and particularly his work against Wilkins put him squarely on our radar. Epic reference on Josie Cotton btw, how quickly do you think she would get cancelled today for 1982's "Johnny Are You Queer"?

 
What about Alama Uluave, the Center that looked good in preseason last year? We still have him?
 
I have joked a lot about Eichenberg the past few years. He has always been a team player, and that hasn’t necessarily helped his growth. I get why the staff likes him because he is willing to play a position like center which he had never played before. He played injured last year.

That being said, his biggest issue has always been a few really bad reps every game. During a Live game it is easy to see his mistakes. Despite the fact 80-90% of his snaps are average at the very least.
 
Really good stuff, as usual @Feverdream . I agree wholeheartedly on Brewer, the Phins had a front row seat in the Monday nighter against the Titans, and particularly his work against Wilkins put him squarely on our radar. Epic reference on Josie Cotton btw, how quickly do you think she would get cancelled today for 1982's "Johnny Are You Queer"?



Man... I thought nobody was gonna get that!
 
I have joked a lot about Eichenberg the past few years. He has always been a team player, and that hasn’t necessarily helped his growth. I get why the staff likes him because he is willing to play a position like center which he had never played before. He played injured last year.

That being said, his biggest issue has always been a few really bad reps every game. During a Live game it is easy to see his mistakes. Despite the fact 80-90% of his snaps are average at the very least.
I think that this is why Wynn scores poorly on the PFF site. He'll look really good on a couple of snaps and then he'll toss in a real head scratcher.
 
Welcome back my brothers; today we will try to make some sense out of the position group with the least amount of pre-season clarity, the interior positions on the O-line.
There isn't an area on the Dolphins roster that has a greater disconnect between what the coaches believe and what the fans think than with this group of players. The coaching staff believes we have enough to compete, while a good portion of our fanbase is undergoing outright panic at the thought that we're going to war with this roster.

If you read the earlier section covering Offensive Tackles, you are probably familiar with my take on the greater importance on finding and maintaining Tackles rather than Guards, so I doubt that many will be surprised that I am siding with the coaches here. I think that barring a rash of injuries, we do, indeed, have enough.

At Center, we signed Aaron Brewer in free agency, and he is a very similar player to last year's starter, Connor Williams. His game is speed and quick feet. He's the very prototype for a zone-blocking system. Yes, he is a bit smaller than average, and No, he is not going to maul anyone in a power system but if you want your Center to get to his marks on the second level, and spring our backs for big runs, Brewer could be an actual upgrade over Williams.
Many of the louder brothers have wrung their hands over Brewer's supposed inability to pass-block... freely ignoring the fact that Brewer was completely miscast in Tennessee, where he played in front of a bruiser RB and a QB known to have very poor pocket awareness as well as a career-long tendency to hold onto the ball much, much too long.
Neither will be the case in Miami... this is a 100% zone-blocking team with a quick strike attack formula. Aaron won't be asked to hold his blocks forever and the brothers who miss this fact just want the Phins to play a completely different style of football. Aaron Brewer is a glove-fit player who comes to us on a very reasonable contract. My prediction... by midseason, those complaining will have come around, and as a bonus, unlike Connor Williams, Brewer has not had multiple knee surgeries.

That's the clearest part of our IOL. At Guard, we have a collection of guys who played Tackle in college and again early in their career. Jack Driscoll and Liam Eichenberg are thought to be competing to start at RG, while most assume that Isaiah Wynn is the tentative starter at LG, and that's probably accurate, but there is one big caution here-- Isaiah Wynn is THE most injury prone player on the Miami football team. Yes, worse than Terron Armstead.
For a younger player, he has missed an astonishing number of games... and that's why I suspect that Robert Jones will not be part of the RG competition. I think he'll be slotted almost exclusively at LG, the spot he played at the end of last year. Hell, Wynn was our weak link BEFORE he was injured, putting up a PFF score of only 47.8. If Wynn is not 100% ready to go, Jones may be our starter. (Jones btw graded out at 60.9 across his play at the two Guard spots). Jones isn't a plus athlete, but he's a tough savvy player who answers the bell WAAAAAY more often than Isaiah Wynn.

Driscoll and Eichenberg are pretty close to having the exact same story. Both were College Tackles, drafted to play RT or failing that, Guard-- two men who've been bounced around their team's formations and never allowed to settle into one position. Both were ill-served by their team's needs to have their best 5 players on the field, even if they themselves were in the wrong spot... as a bonus, both players have had their biggest success at Guard, where Eichenberg had some really solid games last year before being forced to play Center and Driscoll had an excellent half year in 2021. Honestly... I wish that we'd have let Wynn walk and just installed these two in the Guard spots. These two are lunch pail players who I believe will surprise many here at FH. I expect the loser of this battle to back up at both RG and RT and that should give us continuity when a starter is down.

After these 5 players, there is a noticeable drop off... Lester (Josie) Cotton is an old-school power/gap blocker who is completely miscast in our system. He was, by far, our weakest link last year. Already 28, he has never been a starter in his career, indeed, he's rarely been a reserve. If he makes the team...shudder!

Chasen Hines stuck around on the Practice Squad last year after being a 6th round pick for New England. We invited him back for another year, so there must be something there. Before the draft, he was thought to be more of a power/gap style lineman so ultimately, he may not fit our system. I won't say no though, he must have impressed the coaches or he wouldn't be back for a second chance.

This year, we've brought in 3 UDFA C/G prospects: Ireland Brown from Rutgers, Andrew Meyer from UTEP, and the overaged Matthew Jones from Ohio St.
None of these three were highly regarded, although with Centers, sometimes they'll surprise you. Obviously Jones played at the highest level, but he looks more like a Guard than a Center to me, and is already 25, so you have to figure that he's close to maxed out.

If I had to bet on one of these sticking on the PS, and maybe even being active on a game day, I'd probably go with Meyer. He looks like the most mobile of the three and shares lot of the same characteristics as Brewer. He looks to be built for the zone blocking game.

Yep, I know that a lot of folks just loathe Liam Eichenberg... I get that, but I would put forward the idea that most of this has been completely out of his hands. Like Austin Jackson, he was a victim of lousy coaching and multiple position switches; at this point, he has started at all 5 line positions in his three years in the league, and he has never been allowed to focus on one spot.
Last year, the coaches had installed him ahead of Wynn, only to have him lose his spot with a minor camp foot injury... if Liam is healthy, he's got the potential to surprise. He'd be a great story... but so would Driscoll.

Like I mentioned earlier... I think these guys are better than most think, and I don't believe that either Risner or Van Roten would have been an upgrade, but I guess we'll see. There will be a lot of "I told you so" handed out either way.
good job as usual
 
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