Pre-season Group Position Battles: Offensive Tackles

[ThePeopleShow13]

Paul is 22. He really wasn't drafted with THIS year in mind. It would be nice if he's ready right away, but there's no need to rush him. He'll see a LOT of snaps in the preseason though as the team will surely keep Armstead out of harm's way.

Watching how both Jackson and Eichenberg were mishandled should have taught these coaches how NOT to do it. Put Paul in one position and leave him there... that 3-4 position bounce around that the Dolphins inflicted on Jackson... and then Eichenberg should never happen in Miami again.

Hell... it's nice to have an O-Line coach for a second year.

I believe our FO/Staff pretty much ruined Eichenberg’s career moving him around. I don’t think he was ever going to be more than an average starter. But they turned him into a below average backup at multiple positions.

 

[mrhankey81701]

Paul is 22. He really wasn't drafted with THIS year in mind. It would be nice if he's ready right away, but there's no need to rush him. He'll see a LOT of snaps in the preseason though as the team will surely keep Armstead out of harm's way.

Watching how both Jackson and Eichenberg were mishandled should have taught these coaches how NOT to do it. Put Paul in one position and leave him there... that 3-4 position bounce around that the Dolphins inflicted on Jackson... and then Eichenberg should never happen in Miami again.

Hell... it's nice to have an O-Line coach for a second year.

Agreed that he’s the future replacement for Armstead. My general view on young guys that are high draft picks is that they should be able to beat out the Kendall Lamms of the world. While I don’t expect him to overtake Armstead who is highly paid veteran who, big if, if healthy is a great player. I Paul should be able to beat out Lamm for the backup LT position as Lamms a career backup on a salary around the minimum.

 

[Feverdream]

I believe our FO/Staff pretty much ruined Eichenberg’s career moving him around. I don’t think he was ever going to be more than an average starter. But they turned him into a below average backup at multiple positions.

I might have been Austin Jackson's biggest defender. When half of FH had given up on him and our trolls were calling him a bust (loudly), I repeatedly said, "The coaches are ruining him by bouncing him around the formation. This kid is super young and they are confusing him so much that he is unable to use his super athleticism. He'll be good, maybe even excellent when he gets one spot and the right coaching."

I'm not as high on Eichenberg, because he isn't a super athlete, but he's a couple of things that lead to a lineman surviving in the NFL. He's mentally tough, playing through injuries, and he's game, playing in positions that he's never played before. I mean... hey Liam, ever played Center before.
No coach, but let's give it a shot. I only have to replace one of the best Centers in the NFL... right? That won't lead to any criticism.

Coaches lean into players like that. I'll get into the Driscoll/Eichenberg fight in my next segment, but I think we're a LOT better off than most believe.

 

[Feverdream]

Agreed that he’s the future replacement for Armstead. My general view on young guys that are high draft picks is that they should be able to beat out the Kendall Lamms of the world. While I don’t expect him to overtake Armstead who is highly paid veteran who, big if, if healthy is a great player. I Paul should be able to beat out Lamm for the backup LT position as Lamms a career backup on a salary around the minimum.

I am NOT a guy who thinks rookies should play right away. In many cases, I think it retards their progress.
I want to see them by their second year and i honestly think that GMs who draft players for this year are fools.

 

[JamesWsenior]

I am NOT a guy who thinks rookies should play right away. In many cases, I think it retards their progress.
I want to see them by their second year and i honestly think that GMs who draft players for this year are fools.

You mean Waddle should have sat his rookie year?

Oh sorry you mean Oline only.

(This post was made to go hand in hand with your comment about getting worried if everyone agreed with you...nothing more really.. seriously )

 

[VBCheeseGrater]

I believe our FO/Staff pretty much ruined Eichenberg’s career moving him around. I don’t think he was ever going to be more than an average starter. But they turned him into a below average backup at multiple positions.

Pretty sure i once heard a fins beat writer who I shall not name (who i happen to like and value) say "Look out for Eichenberg" in a positive light, maybe a year or so back. Me being the type that likes to see the less heralded persevere and rise up, ill be rooting for him whenever he's on the field.

 

[Feverdream]

You mean Waddle should have sat his rookie year?

Oh sorry you mean Oline only.

(This post was made to go hand in hand with your comment about getting worried if everyone agreed with you...nothing more really.. seriously )

Heh!

Some restrictions may apply

 

[Feverdream]

On rookies playing...

I think a lot of it comes down to athleticism vs. game wisdom. RBs are almost always ready right away... (unless they are playing on pass pro downs. Then learning the blitz pick ups can take some time.)
Edges... put them in coach, most of what they do is instinctive. WRs... generally ready.

Linemen and non-running QBs? Not so much. Most of what they do is more cerebral in nature and the dumb ones struggle mightily. Just think about how many really gifted QBs crash and burn because they just aren't smart enough.

True TEs... struggle. Slot TEs, not so much.

So, I'm not saying that you shouldn't ever play a rookie, but there are a lot of positions where they just aren't ready right away. Linemen in particular can take a few years, especially if they are young and haven't really hit their mature weight/muscle mass plateau.

I think far too many football fans just expect more than is realistically possible from certain positions and are prone to some poorly thought out snap decisions.

Then there's the age at draft issue. Was the player a 6 year college player and 24 years old? Or was he 21 and a true junior? It makes a pretty big difference, and it certainly affects their ceiling.

I'm a believer in drafting players on what you expect their ceiling will be, while placing much less emphasis on where they are right now. Yes, both methods see their share of busts, but I'm a firm believer in taking home run swings on a regular basis. I think you get your mega stars using this approach... and suffering through the Iggys is what you pay for the privilege.

 

[Pacer]

Pretty sure i once heard a fins beat writer who I shall not name (who i happen to like and value) say "Look out for Eichenberg" in a positive light, maybe a year or so back. Me being the type that likes to see the less heralded persevere and rise up, ill be rooting for him whenever he's on the field.

The beat writer in question probably was not expecting him to play most of his snaps at positions he had little or no experience at. But yes I expect him to be serviceable if not marginally above average from this point on (when healthy of course).

 

[Pacer]

On rookies playing...

I think a lot of it comes down to athleticism vs. game wisdom. RBs are almost always ready right away... (unless they are playing on pass pro downs. Then learning the blitz pick ups can take some time.)
Edges... put them in coach, most of what they do is instinctive. WRs... generally ready.

Linemen and non-running QBs? Not so much. Most of what they do is more cerebral in nature and the dumb ones struggle mightily. Just think about how many really gifted QBs crash and burn because they just aren't smart enough.

True TEs... struggle. Slot TEs, not so much.

So, I'm not saying that you shouldn't ever play a rookie, but there are a lot of positions where they just aren't ready right away. Linemen in particular can take a few years, especially if they are young and haven't really hit their mature weight/muscle mass plateau.

I think far too many football fans just expect more than is realistically possible from certain positions and are prone to some poorly thought out snap decisions.

Then there's the age at draft issue. Was the player a 6 year college player and 24 years old? Or was he 21 and a true junior? It makes a pretty big difference, and it certainly affects their ceiling.

I'm a believer in drafting players on what you expect their ceiling will be, while placing much less emphasis on where they are right now. Yes, both methods see their share of busts, but I'm a firm believer in taking home run swings on a regular basis. I think you get your mega stars using this approach... and suffering through the Iggys is what you pay for the privilege.

So well said. Draft for ceiling or floor but get value whichever you choose. Rarely do all 3 intersect.

 

[Jamesw]

Paul is 22. He really wasn't drafted with THIS year in mind. It would be nice if he's ready right away, but there's no need to rush him. He'll see a LOT of snaps in the preseason though as the team will surely keep Armstead out of harm's way.

Watching how both Jackson and Eichenberg were mishandled should have taught these coaches how NOT to do it. Put Paul in one position and leave him there... that 3-4 position bounce around that the Dolphins inflicted on Jackson... and then Eichenberg should never happen in Miami again.

Hell... it's nice to have an O-Line coach for a second year.

Agreed 100% on the stupidity of moving rookies round. And I also think Eich will impress at G this season. Not a pro bowler, but a solid consistent starter.

 

[djphinfan]

On rookies playing...

I think a lot of it comes down to athleticism vs. game wisdom. RBs are almost always ready right away... (unless they are playing on pass pro downs. Then learning the blitz pick ups can take some time.)
Edges... put them in coach, most of what they do is instinctive. WRs... generally ready.

Linemen and non-running QBs? Not so much. Most of what they do is more cerebral in nature and the dumb ones struggle mightily. Just think about how many really gifted QBs crash and burn because they just aren't smart enough.

True TEs... struggle. Slot TEs, not so much.

So, I'm not saying that you shouldn't ever play a rookie, but there are a lot of positions where they just aren't ready right away. Linemen in particular can take a few years, especially if they are young and haven't really hit their mature weight/muscle mass plateau.

I think far too many football fans just expect more than is realistically possible from certain positions and are prone to some poorly thought out snap decisions.

Then there's the age at draft issue. Was the player a 6 year college player and 24 years old? Or was he 21 and a true junior? It makes a pretty big difference, and it certainly affects their ceiling.

I'm a believer in drafting players on what you expect their ceiling will be, while placing much less emphasis on where they are right now. Yes, both methods see their share of busts, but I'm a firm believer in taking home run swings on a regular basis. I think you get your mega stars using this approach... and suffering through the Iggys is what you pay for the privilege.

agreed with your drafting philosophy, I would always draft with projection in mind.

The very reason why I loved Austin Jackson, and never gave up like you.

Tua is the ultimate example of a player not being ready to play his rookie year.

So many factors said no but someone above overruled that

 

[Dynastybuilder]

On rookies playing...

I think a lot of it comes down to athleticism vs. game wisdom. RBs are almost always ready right away... (unless they are playing on pass pro downs. Then learning the blitz pick ups can take some time.)
Edges... put them in coach, most of what they do is instinctive. WRs... generally ready.

Linemen and non-running QBs? Not so much. Most of what they do is more cerebral in nature and the dumb ones struggle mightily. Just think about how many really gifted QBs crash and burn because they just aren't smart enough.

True TEs... struggle. Slot TEs, not so much.

So, I'm not saying that you shouldn't ever play a rookie, but there are a lot of positions where they just aren't ready right away. Linemen in particular can take a few years, especially if they are young and haven't really hit their mature weight/muscle mass plateau.

I think far too many football fans just expect more than is realistically possible from certain positions and are prone to some poorly thought out snap decisions.

Then there's the age at draft issue. Was the player a 6 year college player and 24 years old? Or was he 21 and a true junior? It makes a pretty big difference, and it certainly affects their ceiling.

I'm a believer in drafting players on what you expect their ceiling will be, while placing much less emphasis on where they are right now. Yes, both methods see their share of busts, but I'm a firm believer in taking home run swings on a regular basis. I think you get your mega stars using this approach... and suffering through the Iggys is what you pay for the privilege.

I'll add that there are outliers at every position, even QB depending on the team's situation. Ideally, you're drafting replacement QB's a year or two before they have to start at a minimum.


The top stars in college are going to play, because they're either going to a team where they are the best option or they're too good to have on the bench.