Professionals Frank Coyle and Charlie Casserly Weigh In on Ted Ginn Jr. | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Professionals Frank Coyle and Charlie Casserly Weigh In on Ted Ginn Jr.

ckparrothead

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From Charlie Casserly:

Miami Dolphins

We all had it wrong here. Just when I got through writing Brady Quinn's name next to Miami, they took Ted Ginn Jr.! They kept this one quiet, maybe too quiet. Sometimes it is a good idea to let the fans know there are some other options when you pick, but the danger in doing that at the ninth pick, is you might tip other teams on who you are interested in. Now to Ginn. He's the second-fastest player I have ever scouted -- the fastest being Darrell Green, who was the fastest player in my 30 years in the NFL.

I remember going to Ohio State to scout Santonio Holmes -- who can run pretty fast -- and just watch Ginn run right by him. Some people feel Ginn will have trouble getting off the press and running routes. I don't believe that. He has foot quickness and the change-of-direction ability to do that. In fact, if you want to press him, good luck -- because if you miss him at the line of scrimmage, you might as well send the PAT defense on because you will not catch him. There are a couple of things that bother me about him -- his pure hands and size. As for size, there are guys like Ginn who have been great pros: Marvin Harrison and Steve Smith. Neither of these guys made a living in college going over the middle. This is a pick that is getting criticized by many, but you won't hear defensive coordinators who have to defense Ginn criticize him. He is also can impact the game as a return man.


And this from Frank Coyle:

Ted Ginn - Impresses in April Sprint Workout Ginn's Yearbook Scouting Report

Submitted by frank coyle on Thu, 04/12/2007 - 11:21am. NFL Draft Prospects

NFL.com Gil Brandt reported on Ted Ginn's brief workout at Ohio. St.

He did not run at the Combine or OSU's Pro Day -- worked out on campus before representatives of most of the NFL teams. He ran his 40s in 4.38, 4.44 and 4.45 seconds. He ran no shuttles and did no jumps, and because of his sore foot, stopped running routes after doing about 20 of them. Three head coaches were there: Scott Linehan (Rams), Marvin Lewis (Bengals) and Cam Cameron (Dolphins). Also there were Dolphins general manager Randy Mueller and Rams vice president for player personnel Tony Softli.

Actual Scouting Report in Draft Insiders' Yearbook

2. * Ted Ginn #7 - 5’11†180 lbs. - Ohio St. - Sp. 4.35 Rating 94

Electrifying all purpose junior performer is one of the most explosive playmakers from the college ranks to enter the NFL early in the past two decades. Ted is a fast junior receiver/return specialist who shows explosiveness after he gets his hands on the ball whether in the pass or return game to change games instantly. He is one of the best playmakers in recent memory whose development progressed nicely over his career. He is both fast and quick with the rare explosive burst to separate easily and be dangerous from anywhere on the field. He possesses fine hands with the speed to get deep and hit the home run regularly and the excellent running skills after he gets his hands on the ball to pressure the defense. He has made big plays since this inaugural season flashing the rare explosiveness to be dangerous every time he touches the ball. He shows all the components to become a huge NFL star, speed, quickness, hands, great vision and the natural running skills to strike from anywhere. After his true year season, he declared for the NFL Draft ’07, completing his college stay with a kickoff return for a TD on the last play of his career. It was the opening kickoff of the national championship game vs Florida and the only time Ohio St. held the lead in the contest. He has fine hands and will make the difficult catch regularly, showing the ability to adjust quickly to the errant pass. He runs precise sound routes, though his ability to go over the middle is an area that needs work to be a complete pro receiver. He has top speed to get deep and hit the home run regularly and displayed this more consistently over his late career. He has the rare burst of speed to separate and get open in the deep game, as well as taking the short hitch pass and hitting the seam to break a big play. His excellent running skills after the catch will warrant a very early selection. He is especially dangerous on the shorter routes to take the play the distance and is ideally suited for the West Coast offenses. His ability to find the end zone and run after the catch ability will make him a top commodity in April with virtually every club looking for playmakers. On the deep pass, he has developed good instincts tracking and the body control and hands to make the big play. He shows the ability to track the ball with the savvy to lean and push off to make the big play. He needs some development in his route running and recognizing defenses quicker, but he is capable of helping an offense immediately as a rookie. His speed off the line puts him in a position to challenge corners easily and makes him a difficult match up, especially in man situations Over his career, he pressured defenses with his speed and demanded special attention weekly. He needs some strength development to fill out as an athlete. As a collegian, he was rarely tested with the bump and run and must prove he can beat that technique to become an accomplished pro receiver. He is very fast in his routes with the ability to retain that speed exceptionally well in his patterns and create consistent separate from coverage.

The Numbers: As a junior, he started 13 games and caught 59 passes for 781 yards and 9 TDs for an 13.2 yard average per catch that earned him first team Big Ten honors. As a sophomore, he caught 51 passes for 803 yards, a 15.7 yard average per catch and 4 TDs while adding another TD as a runner, punt and kickoff returner. As a freshman, he caught 25 passes for 359 yards and 2 TDs for a 14.4 yard average while playing opposite Santonio Holmes for the first time. He also scored 4 TDs on PR while averaging an amazing 25.6 yards per return. His presence in the return game changed kicking strategy of opponents that gave Ohio St. consistently great field position. At the NFL Combine, he did not workout and came in 5’11 and 178 lbs. At the OSU workout, he did not run.

The Skinny: Dynamic playmaker with the talent to change a game with one play. He should have major impact in the return game and most likely as a rookie. He is the best return specialist I have ever scouted which includes this past year’s rookie sensation Devin Hester who Draft Insiders rated the top returner in the past decade. As a receiver, he has become one of the better deep threats in the country over the past three seasons, displaying the special burst of speed to get behind the secondary and hit the home run. He is smooth and very quick into his routes and cuts with the ability to create consistent separation in his patterns. His release off the line of scrimmage is very good and he eats up the corner’s cushion fast with the ability to retain his speed in his breaks. He needs work on his strength and hand use to better fight off the bump-and-run from physical cornerbacks. Over his career, he has been used as a return specialist, combining both elusiveness and the rare sudden speed to challenge for playing time in those roles as a pro. He needs some strength development to fill out further, though he is a wiry athlete who has proven to be durable as a collegian. He has a nose for the end zone and has produced vs. a high level of competition where he defied double coverage situations at times. He needs to continue to develop the ability to set up corners in coverage by using an array of moves to create separation. He is similar to current NFL star wideouts Marvin Harrison and Torry Holt in size, athleticism and big play ability but not in current level of development as a receiver. He is a fine receiver who is ready for to fill the slot receiver role now, though he needs only minor refinement in his overall strength and recognition skills to be a starting receiver. Top 10 player and an excellent addition to a passing and return game. Teams like the Texans, Vikings and 49ers have on their short list for the 1st round. Spectacular playmaker with all talent to become a biggest impact performer in this class and an NFL star with minor development where he should be a quick study. Future Pro Bowl performer.

Draft Projection: 1st Round

This is what some of us were trying to get at with Ted Ginn Jr. re: getting off the press.

That seems to have become the mantra among talking heads and reporters that really don't know their football. But, the reality is that it is a little more complicated than that.

Do you know why he never showed problems getting off the press in college? Because corners knew, if they tried to do that, it's over. Six for the score. You watch the OSU-Texas game and that's exactly what happens to Aaron Ross. He tried committing to the press but Ginn deked to the outside and then he was gone...touchdown.

Now, the NFL will want him to prove it. But not every receiver gets off the jam by being big and strong. Most guys do it by being too quick to risk over-committing to a jam. In the NFL, if a corner is going to commit to the press against Ted Ginn Jr., he had better get his hands on him and stuff him like a turkey, or he had better have a damn fast safety over top of him committed to double-teaming on Ted Ginn Jr.

If the latter is the case you've got one player taking the focus of two defenders...and isn't that what a #1 receiver is supposed to do?
 
:rawk: Right on bro. That statement from Casserly is one I posted earlier in another thread. Ginn was an excellent pick, and so was Beck and so was Satele. The whole draft was very good. All the Ginn haters will soon come around.
 
dude people will catch on one day.. as for all u quinn LOVERS good think your not GM's or we'd have fricken brad pitt as a QB
 
I would just say that "if you miss him" trying to jamm him at the LOS is a win lose situation. Teams will come after Ginn for sure. Ginn will win some and lose some. This is the NFL.

On the punts and kickoffs, they will kick short and hopefully nail him hard or hope he screws up the handle on the ball. This league (especially the Pats are known for this).

Other than that, we got ourselves a bonifide speedster who can make a huge differerence in our offense even when he is not getting the ball. His injury should not be taken lightly and written off. 17 week seasons in the NFL are much different than 11 weeks in college with a month off for the big bowl game. That is my only contention with Ginn at 9.

The guy that really gets me going is John Beck. I like listening to him talk.
 
CK: Thanks man. I love the Ginn pick. I didn't like Quinn. I am not an expert, but Quinn just didn't win big games and that bothered me.

Ginn is lightening fast and quick. Now, just like teams did with Minnesota, they will BE FORCED to play a safety over the top of Ginn every play. The attempt to take away Ginn's half of hte field will provide our entire offense an 'open' side of the field to work with. In fact, the moaning about this pick is funny. People said that Daunte was only good because he had Moss to throw to. Well, now we have that kind of deep speed, and that will benefit everyone.

I love GInn!!
 
I love Brady Quinn. I still love him. I have thought for a long time now and continue to think to this day that there are two quarterbacks in this draft that I am comfortable predicting will be good pro quarterbacks. Those two are Brady Quinn, and John Beck.

I believe Jamarcus Russell will some day achieve success in this league. But, I believe it will be fleeting, and inconsistent. It will come about when circumstances conspire to help him. I believe there are three QBs that have a mile to go to become good pros, instead of five miles. Those are Russell, Quinn and Beck. Of them, Russell's work ethic and character make me question if he can even go that one mile. I don't know that he's competitive enough and I think even when he achieves the success, he'll slide back to mediocrity. There's also a decent chance he could go completely belly-up like an Akili Smith.

Kevin Kolb, I just don't know that he's got accuracy. I don't know that he's got a whole lot of "it" factor, either. On the other hand, he went to the RIGHT system. That system will be perfect for that man. He has an opportunity to get into that system and learn it for 3 years and then maybe get something going...but again, the upside is limited to me...fleeting success, and will have to go through a lot to get that success.

Trent Edwards, I'm prepared to admit he's better than I gave credit for but in the end I just don't think he throws NFL passes often enough and knows what it means to achieve consistency in decision making and pocket awareness.

Jeff Rowe is the guy I feel has a fair decent chance of being that third guy that will achieve consistent success. I wonder about his maturity level but honestly, it could come with age. He has the skill set to transition out of that "pistol" offense he ran in Nevada. I think it's going to take a lot of development though...but he's a guy that really would not surprise me if when he's like, 28-30 years old, he gets a chance a la Jake Delhomme and really runs with it.

But Brady Quinn and John Beck, I really believe those are your guys that will become guys like Marc Bulger, Chad Pennington (before the shoulder injuries), Mark Brunell in his prime, Trent Green, etc.


Brady Quinn and Steve Smith, or Ted Ginn and John Beck? Question for the ages. I expect both combinations to be very good.
 
I love Brady Quinn. I still love him. I have thought for a long time now and continue to think to this day that there are two quarterbacks in this draft that I am comfortable predicting will be good pro quarterbacks. Those two are Brady Quinn, and John Beck.

I believe Jamarcus Russell will some day achieve success in this league. But, I believe it will be fleeting, and inconsistent. It will come about when circumstances conspire to help him. I believe there are three QBs that have a mile to go to become good pros, instead of five miles. Those are Russell, Quinn and Beck. Of them, Russell's work ethic and character make me question if he can even go that one mile. I don't know that he's competitive enough and I think even when he achieves the success, he'll slide back to mediocrity. There's also a decent chance he could go completely belly-up like an Akili Smith.

Kevin Kolb, I just don't know that he's got accuracy. I don't know that he's got a whole lot of "it" factor, either. On the other hand, he went to the RIGHT system. That system will be perfect for that man. He has an opportunity to get into that system and learn it for 3 years and then maybe get something going...but again, the upside is limited to me...fleeting success, and will have to go through a lot to get that success.

Trent Edwards, I'm prepared to admit he's better than I gave credit for but in the end I just don't think he throws NFL passes often enough and knows what it means to achieve consistency in decision making and pocket awareness.

Jeff Rowe is the guy I feel has a fair decent chance of being that third guy that will achieve consistent success. I wonder about his maturity level but honestly, it could come with age. He has the skill set to transition out of that "pistol" offense he ran in Nevada. I think it's going to take a lot of development though...but he's a guy that really would not surprise me if when he's like, 28-30 years old, he gets a chance a la Jake Delhomme and really runs with it.

But Brady Quinn and John Beck, I really believe those are your guys that will become guys like Marc Bulger, Chad Pennington (before the shoulder injuries), Mark Brunell in his prime, Trent Green, etc.


Brady Quinn and Steve Smith, or Ted Ginn and John Beck? Question for the ages. I expect both combinations to be very good.

I sure hope so.
 
If John Beck was 22 instead of 26 would he have been a legit 1st rounder?

I've watch his tapes; lots to like, does he have enought time(career-wise) to develop to his highest potential?
 
The only thing that scares me about Beck is the college system from which he came. Historically spread offense/fun & gun QB's have a rough time of it in the NFL. Believe it or not, Alex Smith having a good year with the 49ers next year will aleviate alot of my worries. It he can make the transition, maybe there's hope.

With the way Cam was talking about accuracy, it makes me wonder if my man Brohm and come out, if he might have been our pick at #9.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mmbbPKL3uc

I've seen Ginn play a handful of times, but never realized how fast he was until CK pointed it out about the press coverage. In the video above, he proves it in the very first highlight. A Badger player grabs his arm at the 50 yard line, causing him to pause for a split second, but within 2 steps he's back up to full speed and outruns everyone to the endzone. That's absolutely amazing for someone only 5'11".

That height is deceptive though. It looks like he has the arms and legs that usually belong on someone 6'4" or 6'5", but a stout torso. If anyone know's who I'm talking about, he reminds me of Tony Delk, the former Kentucky and NBA player. He's kinda California Raisin-ish.:D
 
The only thing that scares me about Beck is the college system from which he came. Historically spread offense/fun & gun QB's have a rough time of it in the NFL. Believe it or not, Alex Smith having a good year with the 49ers next year will aleviate alot of my worries. It he can make the transition, maybe there's hope.

With the way Cam was talking about accuracy, it makes me wonder if my man Brohm and come out, if he might have been our pick at #9.

Didn't keep Drew Brees from becoming among the best.
 
I love Brady Quinn. I still love him. I have thought for a long time now and continue to think to this day that there are two quarterbacks in this draft that I am comfortable predicting will be good pro quarterbacks. Those two are Brady Quinn, and John Beck.

I believe Jamarcus Russell will some day achieve success in this league. But, I believe it will be fleeting, and inconsistent. It will come about when circumstances conspire to help him. I believe there are three QBs that have a mile to go to become good pros, instead of five miles. Those are Russell, Quinn and Beck. Of them, Russell's work ethic and character make me question if he can even go that one mile. I don't know that he's competitive enough and I think even when he achieves the success, he'll slide back to mediocrity. There's also a decent chance he could go completely belly-up like an Akili Smith.

Kevin Kolb, I just don't know that he's got accuracy. I don't know that he's got a whole lot of "it" factor, either. On the other hand, he went to the RIGHT system. That system will be perfect for that man. He has an opportunity to get into that system and learn it for 3 years and then maybe get something going...but again, the upside is limited to me...fleeting success, and will have to go through a lot to get that success.

Trent Edwards, I'm prepared to admit he's better than I gave credit for but in the end I just don't think he throws NFL passes often enough and knows what it means to achieve consistency in decision making and pocket awareness.

Jeff Rowe is the guy I feel has a fair decent chance of being that third guy that will achieve consistent success. I wonder about his maturity level but honestly, it could come with age. He has the skill set to transition out of that "pistol" offense he ran in Nevada. I think it's going to take a lot of development though...but he's a guy that really would not surprise me if when he's like, 28-30 years old, he gets a chance a la Jake Delhomme and really runs with it.

But Brady Quinn and John Beck, I really believe those are your guys that will become guys like Marc Bulger, Chad Pennington (before the shoulder injuries), Mark Brunell in his prime, Trent Green, etc.


Brady Quinn and Steve Smith, or Ted Ginn and John Beck? Question for the ages. I expect both combinations to be very good.

It's always nice reading your insights CK. While I was a little shocked and upset during the initial draft pick, but once I saw the 2nd round pick for Beck, I realized that they had a 2nd round pick in mind that they considered just as good, if not better than Quinn. Overall, I think this was a solid draft for us, despite what the popular media says.
 
Didn't keep Drew Brees from becoming among the best.
Now that I have cooled down I really like the Ginn/Beck pick, but I was PISSED Saturday. Im starting to warm up to it though.

I have a question. Honestly, were you upset or felt Miami made a bad pick and the initial few moments after you heard "Miami selects Ted Ginn"
 
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