Progression or regression? : Bruce Arians / Joe Philbin Comparison

[fisi]

So how important is coaching? Let's take Bruce Arians and the Arizona Cardinals for example. When Bruce Arians took over the Arizona Cardinals in 2012 they were coming off an 5-11 season; they were last in total offense, 28th in passing and last in rushing.

In 2013, Arians first year, the Cardinals went 10-6 (missed playoffs) in the NFC West, arguably the toughest division in football. They finished 12th in total yards and 13th in passing. Granted they acquired Carson Palmer from the Raiders in the off season but Palmer's career 86.1 passer rating is pretty average (Tannehill currently at 79.5 career passer rating). Today the Cardinals are at the top of their division at 4-1. Oh by the way, Drew Stanton was at quarterback for 3 out of 5 of those games. Drew mutha-bleepin Stanton.

Conversely, Philbin took over the Dolphins in 2011 after the Sparano/Bowles era; the team was 22 in total offense, 23rd in passing and 11th in rushing. In Philbin's first year with the team they were 27th in total offense, 26th in passing and 17th in rushing. Last year the Dolphins finished 27th in total offense, 20th in passing and 26th in rushing. Philbin also inherited a historically and statistically better defense than the Arizona Cardinals.

Today the Dolphins are third place in the AFC East at 2-3 with 5 of their next 7 games on the road.

Progression or regression?

Joe Philbin is not an NFL head coach in my opinion. He may be a great person, organizer, coordinator or Larry Coker look alike but he is not a head coach. It doesn't take this long to get a franchise turned around. Not with this talent. This was the year. Year three. I just don't see it.

by LosDez
http://www.dolphinstalk.com/

For the record, I was all in when Joe was hired I thought he was coming from a winning organization. I also thought he would be a great leader which Sparano wasn't but after the Buffalo half time gaffe and finally after Sunday's game giveaway, I have totally given up on this guy. The whole wide world could see his weaknesses-not a great leader.

 

[Sons Of Shula]

I tend to agree, but conveniently left out is the statistical improvement in our offense in just 5 games. Though it could be easily concluded that the imrovements could be directly connected to the hiring of Lazor and our current record under Philbin speaks for itself.

 

[johngarryvo]

cmon fi, not even in same room! Arians is a 'take what's ours - leave nothing' coach.. Philbin only thinks he's Arians-esque

 

[DuderinoN703]

Joe Philbin is not an NFL head coach in my opinion. He may be a great person, organizer, coordinator or Larry Coker look alike but he is not a head coach. It doesn't take this long to get a franchise turned around. Not with this talent. This was the year. Year three. I just don't see it.

Already we have numerous threads detailing the same view. It's understood to feel that way but comparing Philbin to Arians means what exactly? What about all of the other coaches who have been hired the last few years that haven't done anything?

 

[datruth55]

For the record, I was all in when Joe was hired I thought he was coming from a winning organization. I also thought he would be a great leader which Sparano wasn't but after the Buffalo half time gaffe and finally after Sunday's game giveaway, I have totally given up on this guy. The whole wide world could see his weaknesses-not a great leader.

For the record...everyone is coming out now and saying they either hated the hire or are now no longer in support of Philbin cause everyone wants to be right.

Also for the record...we didn't hire Bruce Arians so who cares. Everyone is now picking and choosing what coach to compare with Philbin...who cares. Is that going to make the Dolphins better? Is it going to make you feel better? Every coach we've hired since Don Shula has sucked. Every QB we've brought in since Dan Marino hasn't been good enough...not to mention the most important part of that is the fact that we haven't built a team around the QB to make things any easier. We've got receivers with a catch radius of a dime, we've got a defense that for years now has lacked the ability to cause turnovers and we lack enough playmakers on both sides of the ball. Coach or no coach the players aren't good enough...it's starts with a GM regardless of who is calling the plays or who calls the shots on Sunday everything starts on draft day. Who the heck was picking players in 2000-2004 when Wannstedt was coach and we started to suck? Who was picking players (mostly from the SEC mind you) in 2005-2006 when Saban was not being the coach of Alabama? Who was picking players in 2007 in the franchises worst year? (Teddy Freakin Ginn? Are you kidding me? Who takes a punt returner with the 9th overall pick?) Who was picking players from 2008-2013 through the gimmick of wildcat and fist pumping through a change over in defense from the 3-4 to the 4-3 and a zone blocking scheme that never had the right players on the offensive line to run it?

There have been coaches in this league that win with a team full of all-stars that the GM drafted and a mediocre QB (Brian Billick and the Ravens with Trent Dilfer at QB) and you can say it was a different era and there's more passing now but I'll point to last years Super Bowl winner in Seattle who won by throwing the ball about 26 times a game and running the heck out of Marshawn Lynch and playing solid defense with players they drafted...Earl Thomas, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Max Unger, Russell Okung, Golden Tate (no longer there), James Carpenter, K.J. Wright, Malcolm Smith, Bruce Irvin, Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner...and the list goes on. When you have something like 48 draft picks and undrafted free agent signings on your roster that means the coach and GM are working together.

Wannstedt and Saban had no one to blame but themselves for their stupid personnel decisions, although Wannstedt was stripped of those decisions his last year which gave us the great trade by Rick Spielman who traded a 2nd freakin round draft pick for a 3rd string QB in A.J. Feeley. Regardless Wannstedt and Spielman were never on the same page just like Ireland and Philbin were never on the same page.

If we end up with a new coach next year or a new coach and GM they need to be on the same page, same philosophy, same vision. No coach we hired would have been successful here with Ireland picking players. Just like it's not going to work in Tampa Bay with Lovie Smith calling the shots over the faux GM they have and despite the winning in New England it's not working with Belichick calling the shots, the personnel decisions there are among the leagues worst.

 

[Ben Had]

Could you imagine how bad it would be if we would have got Fisher?

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

For the record...everyone is coming out now and saying they either hated the hire or are now no longer in support of Philbin cause everyone wants to be right.

I wasn't a Philbin booster when we hired him, but after his opening press conference in which he came across as a guy with a good head on his shoulders, I definitely supported him. I was never one of the people who bashed him for Hard Knocks, and I supported him through Bullygate as I still feel that Jon Martin was a unique basket case who did not belong in a locker room and should not have the blame for his psychosis blamed on his football coach. I supported Joe even after last season's ending collapse, because I felt like the Buffalo game was simply unwinnable due to personnel issues and the Jets game was just... yeah.

In hindsight, I was wrong and he needed to be fired after the 2013 collapse. If we don't get a major turnaround in the next two weeks, our season will be over and we will have essentially wasted an entire year of football because our owner wanted to give a bad coach his last chance.

 

[Vaark]

To be fair, there aren't many current NFL HCs who compare favorably with Arians. And the tailspin that the Steelers are now in (lead by the most overrated HC) can be traced back to Arians being forced out as OC because he was perceived as too close to Rapesburger.

 

[Dolfan23]

Already we have numerous threads detailing the same view. It's understood to feel that way but comparing Philbin to Arians means what exactly? What about all of the other coaches who have been hired the last few years that haven't done anything?

Agreed that Philbin needs to go and agree with your point here. Look at Mike Tomlin, he's the same type of coach and I'm pretty sure most here would take Tomlin, or at least would have a year or two ago without hesitation. Now his team is at the bottom of their division, their offense is worse than ours and their defense is about the same... AND they have a "franchise QB" as well.

 

[jvw]

Philbin was never in Bruce Arians league....Arians over the next 3 yrs will be one top coaches in the NFL, if he gets a real QB expect him to win a SB and if he wins with Palmer he is a genius....no fair comparing Philbin to him, Philbin should be compared to Sparano, Sparano IMO is a better HC, give Sparano RT and this team is in the playoffs...after watching the Oak/SD game last week Carr looks like the real deal, I see Tony winning some games with this kid but I don't see them giving him the job going forward.....If he does I see him do some nice things with that team, the looked like a completely different team after the bye....give him some players on D with a new DC and a full off season with Tony and the Raiders will be competitive....His problem here was no QB and then he started coaching and making roster changes to save his job like going after Brandon Marshall without having a QB to get him the ball.....Arians is on a whole different level than these guys....

 

[foozool13]

LMAO at even comparing them. Its not even close. Arians is the real deal.

 

[datruth55]

Philbin was never in Bruce Arians league....Arians over the next 3 yrs will be one top coaches in the NFL, if he gets a real QB expect him to win a SB and if he wins with Palmer he is a genius....no fair comparing Philbin to him, Philbin should be compared to Sparano, Sparano IMO is a better HC, give Sparano RT and this team is in the playoffs...after watching the Oak/SD game last week Carr looks like the real deal, I see Tony winning some games with this kid but I don't see them giving him the job going forward.....If he does I see him do some nice things with that team, the looked like a completely different team after the bye....give him some players on D with a new DC and a full off season with Tony and the Raiders will be competitive....His problem here was no QB and then he started coaching and making roster changes to save his job like going after Brandon Marshall without having a QB to get him the ball.....Arians is on a whole different level than these guys....

If there's a concern with Arians, this might be it. Anyone willing to take on Logan Thomas as a project QB, has Drew Stanton as his backup and traded for Carson Palmer who's never really been much maybe shouldn't be picking the QB. The GM is going to need to put his foot down and save Arians from himself concerning the QB.

 

[LANGER72]

Sometimes it is the assistants that make the coaches look good, and other times the head coach makes the assistants look good.
We are batting .1000 making the wrong choices.
The next time we are set to hire a new head coach for the Fins, Ross should just create a poll on FH and go with the results. Then he should get the hell out of the way.
I would think the odds would be improved.
Just for ****s and giggles..
I would hire DC Dan Quinn from Seattle if he is interested for HC and play his scheme and leave Lazor as the OC and promote our DL coach as DC.
We need a football(s) coach that can handle players, not a choir boy that tows the line for a New York real estate mogul.

 

[jvw]

If there's a concern with Arians, this might be it. Anyone willing to take on Logan Thomas as a project QB, has Drew Stanton as his backup and traded for Carson Palmer who's never really been much maybe shouldn't be picking the QB. The GM is going to need to put his foot down and save Arians from himself concerning the QB.

Granted but he is winning with these guys which is truly amazing....as for Logan, that's what you do, draft a QB in 4-5th round and groom him....when was the last time we drafted a QB? All our eggs are in RT basket....they have a starter in Palmer and are going to take the time to get a system guy, find a QB who fits the style of play of your coach and let him learn it....no pressure on him, until the 3rd yr....the Pats do it, we should be doing it to instead of wash, rinse and repeat with our starting QB....

 

[jvw]

If there's a concern with Arians, this might be it. Anyone willing to take on Logan Thomas as a project QB, has Drew Stanton as his backup and traded for Carson Palmer who's never really been much maybe shouldn't be picking the QB. The GM is going to need to put his foot down and save Arians from himself concerning the QB.

and they compare Logan to big ben lets see what happens with this kid in the next couple of yrs..