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Putting James pick in perspective

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finforlife

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I think you can draw some comparisons to us picking Ju'Wuan James to what happened in the draft a year ago.

The Giants and Bears were sitting with picks 19 and 20 and both had major needs along the offensive line. The Giants took Justin Pugh and the Bears took Kyle Long. Both players generally carried mid-second round grades, but both teams saw a need that had to be filled.

A year later, I doubt fans of either of those teams is complaining. Both wound up having very strong rookie seasons and Long was even a Pro Bowl alternate. The fact they were 'overdrafted' doesn't seem to matter now.

I don't know how James will turn out, but if he solidifies a position that has been a trouble spot for the past few seasons, he will have been well worth the 19th pick.
 
Two words: Travis Frederick. He had a "3rd round grade" according to many scouts and he has had success with the Cowboys thus far. Who cares where James was taken. If he becomes a reliable right tackle for the next 10 years, no one will complain (nor remember) where he was taken. I just PRAY we have finally fixed this offensive line, as it has been our Achilles heal for the past 6 years!
 
Why not pick the three teams that made the playoffs as examples? I'm sure I remember people saying our position at 12 was way too high to reach on Fluker at the time.
 
I would love to say if James turns out to be solid then no ones going to complain but who am I kidding?
 
And this has been "Perspectives" with Lionel Osbourne.
 
As far as I see it James needs to gain some more core strength to be a better run blocker. He seems to have the smarts and desire to accomplish this. So if he does develop in those areas he could very well be someone who will man the RT position, and do it well, for a long time. One thing that I really liked is what he said during his press conference: " After visiting the dolphins, that was my last visit...this was the place where I wanted to be" .
 
The draft complainers have it all worked out. If James plays great, then still should have traded down. They will find a player available in the 3rd round that turns into a pro-bowl player and he becomes the guy they could have drafted. Years will be spent lamenting the timid drafting.

If James doesn't work out, well, they told us he was a reach. Never mind that they would have chosen him at pick 27.

So, either way, complainers gonna complain.
 
Some will never stop complaining...
 
IMHO, these are all poor comparisons. Those were all very specific cases and do not apply to James' situation. Here is what I mean:

Justin Pugh was a poor man's Zack Martin. He was a fantastic technician, but limited tools. Martin is a little bigger and quicker and more flexible so has a little better tools and upside. James has better physio tools than those two guys with fantastic length--the very thing that Pugh and Martin lack most. James has sloppy technique and work ethic ... He is the polar opposite of Pugh and Martin as a prospect.

Kyle Long had very good tools and decent production, but was simply raw. The guy had been playing baseball primarily and wasn't even an OL until recently. The question for him was not IF he would become good, but WHEN. To his and the Bears credit, he became good almost immediately, which was a best case scenario. Also, he is playing OG, which is more forgiving than OT. Again, this isn't the James situation at all.

Travis Fredericks is a C. He was projected as a 2nd round guy by most precisely because he was a C and not a OT. His biggest strengths are his strong mind and ability to call the OL from day 1 ... a pretty amazing thing actually. Again, his situation bears no resemblance to James whatsoever.

If you want corollary players in the draft, here they are:

Justin Pugh -》Zack Martin

Chris Long -》Taylor Lewan

Travis Fredricks -》Travis Swanson

Martin is a better version of Pugh with a higher ceiling. Lewan is a bigger, better version of Long with a much higher ceiling, but has a full college career of play since switching to OL full time. Swanson is a lesser version of Fredricks.

All of these players could have been had. We just didn't want to trade up for any of the top echelon OT's. And, we didn't feel the need to draft a C. For our ZBS scheme, Swanson isn't a great fit and Richburg went very high to NYG in round 2. After those two, the UDFA we signed, Tyler Larsen, probably is as good of a fit at C as any C in the draft.

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People tend to draft with their hearts and emotions.

But if you are a 3rd year coach with heat building under your arse and needing to break into the playoffs then you don't have the luxury of allowing a gaping hole at RT threaten your Franchise QB to whom you have pinned all of your hopes and dreams.

There is a time to pick BPA, time to pick a "luxury" pick and time to pick based on need. You can argue all day long about trades and this guy available at a later round, but when your pass oriented team saw it's QB on the ground 58 times and you're rebuilding 4 starters on the OL you don't try to get cute and wait until later rounds to draft a RT and potentially RG. You draft based on need early and often.

The first round is not so much about getting "TD" guys as it is getting starters. Points win games, I don't deny it. But one glaring hole can expose either side of the ball and render the other 10 guys on that side of the ball useless.

We survived the season with 2 of our top 3 WRs out with injuries. We trashed 4 starting OL. Our Franchise QB is in his 3rd year with a new OC. Our HC is in his 3rd year with a dire need to prove his philosophies work.

I didn't like the pick of Landry when it happened, but you have to applaud Hickey for drafting back into our strength. And drafting 2 OL in picks 1 and 3 to continue to fortify the OL. To me, Landry was a "luxury" pick. And after watching a few highlights and reading some of the remarks by "experts" you can see Philbin wants the passing game to become more dominant and focal point of the offense. If this is his vision, so be it. Go down fighting in what you believe in.

The theme of this draft was obvious: give us many options on the OL and at WR. OL, QB and WR improvement will decide the fate of this team in 2014. We already know what we have in the D. So, it is time for Philbin to lay all of his cards on the table and play the hand he's been building.

I actually liked the OL picks. I thought we should have went with power RB with Pick 2, but this isn't my team and my job isn't on the line. If this is what it takes to make Tannehill the best QB we've had since Marino and get us back into the playoffs, then do it.

One thing is obvious after the draft, OL no longer is a weakness and WR is deep. We have more than 5 options for starters and we have some solid depth on the OL. And we have depth up and down the WR core. i think the final shoe to drop on this plan will be trimming our roster to 2 QBs and freeing up another roster spot for WR.
 
I can't believe anyone could be surprised that fans are questioning our picks. They did the entire time Ireland was here, I certainly can't imagine it would change with a new GM. Like the OP stated, if James works out at RT nobody is really gonna care that he reached by the end of the year, but they SHOULD. The NFL is a very competitve business model, and the draft is aimed at allowing the teams at the bottom to compete with the better teams. However if the bottom teams that draft early pick players in every round that are rated below the teams picking behind them they lose the advantage the league has designed for them. One player won't make a difference, but if that is the standard trend, over time it will effect the overall talent level of the team. No ground can be made up in talent level between the teams. That is why it is so important to draft BPA, espcially in skill positions, and game changers on defense.

The other area of concern is getting value for value, always getting more than you give. One thing that nobody seems to be concerned with is how we lost value in our draft trades. If you add the value of the total of all our picks before the draft started, and then add the value of all the picks we actually made it comes out to be minus 47 pts, which equals a mid 4th rd pick that we lost. Again this isn't the end of the world, but if this becomes standard operating procedure over time it will put us behind other teams who are getting better value.

It's the little things that make the differences. I equate it to playing poker. If a player chases gutshot straight draws he makes them 16% of the time. When he wins all he remembers for the next week is the one he hit, not the 85% he missed. Over time these player go broke, although from time to time they WILL hit on big hands. The same thing goes with GMs. While it's true from time to time a GM will take a lower pick and hit a "Tom Brady" type home run, but if that is how you are planning your business model, over time you are going to go broke.

Our last GM proved he was very good at gaining value, however he was horrible at judging talent. Therefore we ended up drafting higher than other teams but using our winnings to buy lousy products. It's like the poker player who wins money every week but then goes and blows it all on hookers named Ms Bryant.... (sorry I couldn't resist) but the point is a GM has to do many things well. He has to gain value, be a great judge of talent, and work well with a good coaching staff. Our new GM seems on the surface to be working well with the staff, but has now lost value in his one draft to date. Time will tell how well he judged talent.

No one wants Hickey to workout more than I (well except maybe Hickey and his family) and I hope things work out well and he turns the Dolphins around. But to me the hire seemed very much like a "prove it to me" deal where if Philbin doesn't work out this year, Ross will feel comfortable giving the entire control of the team to someone who wants his own people in here. To me it feels like Hickey is set up to be the hero if things go good, and he is out the door with Philbin if they go south.
 
KTOWNFINFAN said:
. Like the OP stated, if James works out at RT nobody is really gonna care that he reached by the end of the year, but they SHOULD. .
Click to expand...

You think the Eagles are headed in the wrong direction? How about the Ravens trading up to take corn in the first round of 2009, terrible decision by them, AMIRITE!?!

How about the Chargers? Everybody on this board would say they reached on Fluker, do you think his great play might have had anything to do with the receiver they took in the third round coming in second for offensive rookie of the year?
 
phinfan40353 said:
People tend to draft with their hearts and emotions.

But if you are a 3rd year coach with heat building under your arse and needing to break into the playoffs then you don't have the luxury of allowing a gaping hole at RT threaten your Franchise QB to whom you have pinned all of your hopes and dreams.

There is a time to pick BPA, time to pick a "luxury" pick and time to pick based on need. You can argue all day long about trades and this guy available at a later round, but when your pass oriented team saw it's QB on the ground 58 times and you're rebuilding 4 starters on the OL you don't try to get cute and wait until later rounds to draft a RT and potentially RG. You draft based on need early and often.

The first round is not so much about getting "TD" guys as it is getting starters. Points win games, I don't deny it. But one glaring hole can expose either side of the ball and render the other 10 guys on that side of the ball useless.

We survived the season with 2 of our top 3 WRs out with injuries. We trashed 4 starting OL. Our Franchise QB is in his 3rd year with a new OC. Our HC is in his 3rd year with a dire need to prove his philosophies work.

I didn't like the pick of Landry when it happened, but you have to applaud Hickey for drafting back into our strength. And drafting 2 OL in picks 1 and 3 to continue to fortify the OL. To me, Landry was a "luxury" pick. And after watching a few highlights and reading some of the remarks by "experts" you can see Philbin wants the passing game to become more dominant and focal point of the offense. If this is his vision, so be it. Go down fighting in what you believe in.

The theme of this draft was obvious: give us many options on the OL and at WR. OL, QB and WR improvement will decide the fate of this team in 2014. We already know what we have in the D. So, it is time for Philbin to lay all of his cards on the table and play the hand he's been building.

I actually liked the OL picks. I thought we should have went with power RB with Pick 2, but this isn't my team and my job isn't on the line. If this is what it takes to make Tannehill the best QB we've had since Marino and get us back into the playoffs, then do it.

One thing is obvious after the draft, OL no longer is a weakness and WR is deep. We have more than 5 options for starters and we have some solid depth on the OL. And we have depth up and down the WR core. i think the final shoe to drop on this plan will be trimming our roster to 2 QBs and freeing up another roster spot for WR.
Click to expand...
Some great points and I agree with most all of the post. But I have to nitpick a couple of things.

1. I can agree with your plan behind the draft except for the Turner pick. Many are saying he was picked to come in a be a OG. But if that is the case that was a horrible pick. There were several solid GUARDS still on the board, where as Turner is a tackle having to move to guard. How many 3rd rd tackles who move to guard come in and contribute the first year?? I like the Turner pick to come in and become the replacement for Albert when he gets hurt later in the year, and end up being his replacement in a few years. But if the plan is for Turner to become this year's starting OG it was a TERRIBLE pick.

2. The other I have to disagree with is that the "OL is no longer a weakness". That is VERY optimistic, borderline silly. We are bringing in a 2nd rd RT as a rookie and starting him (yeah I know we drafted him in the 1st but make no mistake he is a 2nd rd tackle). How many rookies come in and start day one and play like solid starters?? Look back to last year and look at the TOP 1ST RD tackles that struggled playing RT. Don't think for a minute that he is going to grade out in the top half of the league this year.

Then you have to find out who our guards are going to be. Shelly graded out worse in pass blocking than Richie, Jerry, Brenner, Garner and even Dallas Thomas last year. If he is our starting OG we are in serious trouble. Thomas has the ability and if he is over his injuries from last year and has gotten stronger I think/HOPE he can be an answer at one OG but we have to find 2. Maybe it's Brenner or Garner, but no matter WHO it is they can't be expected to better than the bottom quarter of the league. The first couple of games will be rough, unless we sign some FA guards to help out until our young guys get up to speed.
 
Watched a few games of Juwan James vs Alabama and other sec teams. Juwan kept his man away from the qb all the time!
IMO it was a wise move to get him and not gamble with your biggest need.
 
KTOWNFINFAN said:
Like the OP stated, if James works out at RT nobody is really gonna care that he reached by the end of the year, but they SHOULD.
Click to expand...

I think you are missing one of the biggest points. IF James works out at RT then it proves that Hickey was right in making the pick when he did, that he wasn't a reach, and that he shouldn't have waited because some other team may have drafted him. Thus proving everyone wrong who said he drafted him to early. Arizona was in dire need for a RT. Maybe the reason they traded the pick is because the top one they had on their board just got selected? Nobody knows.

RT is no longer a position where you can just throw in a mediocre pass blocker and hope they get buy. Teams, just as the Fins do, are now lining up their best pass rushers as LDE's so if you don't have RT that can pass block on a consistent basis you are asking for failure. The OP's original point shows this mentality by how teams drafted last year.
 
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