Ilovemyfins4eva
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garrard played on bad teams, as opposed to more who didnt?
they both pretty much have played on crappy teams their careers. lets not pretend moore has played on great teams but underachieved with them.
QB Matt Moore, named 2011 MVP, excited for changes to Dolphins' offense
- Thread starter LikeUntoGod
- Start date
they both pretty much have played on crappy teams their careers. lets not pretend moore has played on great teams but underachieved with them.
2413fanphins
Active Roster
you miss the point again, with your love affair for matt moore... he never said matt moor played on good teams...
it's fairly obvious they both played on bad teams, but as the original point still stands... garrards numbers are superior to matt moores... thats all he said, nothing less, nothing more.
LikeUntoGod
The Oracle
I guess I did miss your point and still do...I saw where you had posted already about attempts per game and rushes per game...I assume the point is balanced attack, means fewer attempts per game = fewer yards per game. In total agreement there and I think I get that point.
The post of yours I responded to was a statement that said "it is not about the yards, it is about what you do per attempt." I was asking whether you thought Henne played better than Moore last year b/c if it is about "what you do per attempt" then Henne's 7.8 YPA clearly outdid Moore's 7.2 YPA...as well as Henne's 7.5 YPR outdid Moore's 2.0 YPR.
I guess this will be one of those points I never fully understand and so I will just accept that I missed the point...
I'm sorry if that came out wrong, I was not being a smart butt, i really meant that that I though you missed my point.
Once again, I meant since we did not throw the ball that often, no matter who was the QB, we should not have a lot of passing yards compared to other teams. One reason, although not the only one, that the Packers threw more a lot of yards is that they had i think about 12 more attempts per game then we did.
As far as Henne vs Moore, I really have no idea. Chad Henne was knocked out for the season and then released, to be honest, it did not really seem important to check on.
I decided to look assuming that since as a team we played better after the first several games so Moore should have the better stats. It looks like you were correct, Henne did have a .6 YPA better average. Moore had a higher percentage of TDs, a lower rate of interceptions, a higher completion average and a higher over all QB rating of 87.1 compared to 79.0
I tired to look up more stats such as amount of 20 and 40 yard passes thrown but Henne did not throw at least 14 passes/game so his stats were left off of NFL.com
| Passing Statistics | |||||||||||||
| Player | Att | Comp | Yds | Comp % | Yds/Att | TD | TD % | INT | INT % | Long | Sck | Sack/Lost | Rating |
| Matt Moore | 347 | 210 | 2497 | 60.5 | 7.2 | 16 | 4.6 | 9 | 2.6 | 65 | 36 | 229 | 87.1 |
| Chad Henne | 112 | 64 | 868 | 57.1 | 7.8 | 4 | 3.6 | 4 | 3.6 | 41 | 11 | 67 | 79.0 |
| J.P. Losman | 10 | 6 | 60 | 60.0 | 6.0 | 0 | 0.0 | 0 | 0.0 | 25 | 5 | 38 | 77.1 |
Ilovemyfins4eva
Active Roster
na i really didnt miss the point. at least ill admit i am a moore supporter and think hes decent, as opposed to u 2 who every single time that u guys get the opportunity to bash moore, u guys jump at it.
he is the best qb we have had since pennington ( maybe does not say much) he was decent last year, and overall did a solid job taking over a 0-4 team. no one said he was great, but the way some people talk like he is one of the worst qbs to ever put on an nfl uniform.
and ill take moore at 27 starting over a 34 year old coming off back surgery david garrard.
LikeUntoGod
The Oracle
There was always one player on the Jag's offense that scared me, MJDrew. We have not had a running back like him in many years.
2413fanphins
Active Roster
Best qb since pennington.... no ****... have a good look at that list. Moore is mediocre, always has been. He has shown over his career he can string a few games together. Never played a full season, doesnt beat above average teams, and fumbles too much... sorry if that doesnt make me hard.
Matt moore might not even start, and if he does he will be making less money than david anyway.. that should tell you all about.the future.plans for matt. Why? Because over his entire career he has been average. I dont understand why thats hard to see? Are you still jacked up from the three game win streak or what?
Matt moore might not even start, and if he does he will be making less money than david anyway.. that should tell you all about.the future.plans for matt. Why? Because over his entire career he has been average. I dont understand why thats hard to see? Are you still jacked up from the three game win streak or what?
Ilovemyfins4eva
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yup, exactly.
i saw him play very solid for us, not great, but not terrible like people make it out to be. the one good argument u have is that he does fumble a lot and must cut down on that, that can not be denied and he must work on that.
as for the wins and losses, there were some games where we won where he wasnt great ( redskins, jets aside from that 1 drive) but then again, i think there were games we lost that i dont think he was awful either.
its comical how the same people who were defending henne every time we lost last year ( not saying u because i dont specifically recall) and making any excuses they could think of as to why it wasnt his fault, are the same people who think every loss we had was 100 percent on matt moore. not 50, not 60, but they are saying 100 percent, it was his entire fault we lost, but when we win, its because the defense played great and he had nothing to do with it.
i personally hope we see moore start instead of garrard because aside from the fact that ill admit im a moore supporter, i also see a guy who is 27 years old and maybe can potentially be a solid qb, as opposed to a 34 year old washed up qb coming off back surgery, who if he has anything left in the tank its minimal at best.
I don't bash Moore, I don't hate the guy and would like him as a back up. I just state the facts as I see them. The guys fumbles cost us 3 games, he sucks in the 4th Quarter ( and in the last 2 mins of halfs in particular), can't close games, and had a below pedestrian average passing yards per game. He beat teams we should have beat, when the team played well as a whole. His QBR that so many rave about is so flawed, it is not even funny. It doesn't account for fumbles or clutch play, and it drops into the 60's in the last 2 minutes of the half/game. Sorry man, those are facts and not what I want in a starter.....and before Vaark chimes in with his broken record Henne nonsense, it has nothing to do with Henne who is now with the Jags, so instead of blabbing nonsense about Henne, maybe you can talk about the above issues I have posted multiple times with your only reply having something to do with Henne.
I use to like Vaarks post, but this is all he does when someone brings up something negative about Moore, it is so silly. Vaark....DUDE....knock off the Henne stuff man, he is gone. If a guy posts some stuff about Moore that lends to his limitations, can't you talk about that? It is a weightless, boring, meaningless reply when you show support for Moore (which I can respect) by constantly bringing up Henne. It is way beyond sad at this point!
enigmatics
Go get me a juice box!
Right .... because showing up on July 28th with no first team practice reps in a new offense and new team is good enough for one to come in Week 4 in the middle of a game and take over. There's no way he needed a few weeks to get some chemistry and familiarity as the starter right? LOL
Logic, it's a fuzzy thing with some.
Sorry Stang, but it's hard for me to take your Moore criticism as anything other than subjective because of the stake you had in Henne and how Moore made him look bad by comparison. If you weren't so doggedly defending Henne up until he went down in the same seemingly obsessive way you're now attacking most any pro Moore post, I might think differently - especially if like me you actually got to see the difference on the field between Moore and Henne several times instead of what a cameraman decided to show you 5000 miles away.
It's easy for you to now dismiss Henne but I have countless screenshots of your posts defending his play . You can point to Moore's fumbles which are an issue although the Fins recovered most of them in lieu of his excellent TD/Int ratio, but on the other hand, I never saw a post where you took Henne to task for being an interception loose cannon. I can go on and on; you can cherrypick statistics to back your position but the bottom line is scoreboard: Moore won 6 out his last 9 including ones he should have won and lost several where Marshall and the D let him down. Henne lost his last 6 starts including games he also should have won.
I know it's a bummer to keep bringing up Henne and I wouldn't if you weren't one of the last holdouts defending him and throwing everyone else under the bus in order to do so. To me that speaks of bias. It's like someone declaring they don't hate the guy who stole their wife because he had a bigger dick and used it better, but rather because his personality rubbed them the wrong way. Same difference to me :idk:
Even with your cherrypicked stats, chew on these comparisons between the guy you were defending up until the bitter end vs the guy you never pass up an opportunity to dog. To me it looks like you're now essentially criticizing Moore for questionable crunch time stats vs. the guy whose mostly worse stats you never ever thought to point out. Not that I'm suggesting at all that some of Moore's below stats are impressive, but rather that it's disingenuous that you never played the lack of clutch card when championing Henne. So yes Stang, it's an old song I'm singing but your obsessively attacking Moore for the same things you excused Henne makes me stand back up to discount your credibility at least on this. In general beyond this I will gladly admit that I've always, always found you to be a terrific poster. But we all have our achilles heels don't we?
Oh and as far as Garrard goes, he's a pretty good QB too, with some good seasons depending upon how good his team was that particular year.
But putting their starts together:
Garrard 39-37 (51.3%) for teams those years that went 64-62 (50.8%) 85.5QBR, 61.6% completions
Moore: 13-12 (52.0%) " " " 23-41 (36.5%) 80.1QBR, 59.1% completions
Now if Garrard wins the starting job fair and square I will be rooting for him enthusiastically; sorry dude, but I don't believe you and one or two choice others would be doing more than paying lipservice to that claim if it's Moore who comes out on top.
Vaark, man.....so instead of taking some good advice, you do just the opposite. Man, it don't take a freaking genius to see that Henne was drafted by us in the second round, so you are dealing with a young QB, we drafted,,,,there is going to be growing pains. That is the only way I defended Henne. Moore doesn't have that excuse, he has been in the league for a while. So please, unless you want to keep looking like a clown, stop trying to pawn off Moore's short comings on Henne. To compare the 2 is just stupid, then to insinuate that if someone is saying something negative about Moore, it has to be because of Henne is just dumb. No body gives a crap about Henne anymore and everything I have posted about Moore is absolutely true. Good grief man, get a clue!
Also, I have said 100 times if Moore is our starter, I will gladly be wrong if it means winning.....I guess you choose to ignore those statements, because it hurts your Henne retort.
Also, I have said 100 times if Moore is our starter, I will gladly be wrong if it means winning.....I guess you choose to ignore those statements, because it hurts your Henne retort.
You can't help it, eh? Despite all the denials, still making excuses for Henne. Bottom-line: you can call me what you want and of course are entitled to your opinion, but it's no better or more informed than my own, especially since unlike me, you've obviously never seen Moore any closer than through an HDTV screen, especially in comparison to Henne, so you can't really appreciate the differences between them including that nebulous "It factor" that energizes teammates.
What I'd call "clownish" is someone who obsessively jumps on every related thread multiple times to diminish any positive Moore opinions or threads yet staunchly defended Henne up until he went down, trying to use the same sort of stats against Moore which in most cases are better than Henne's and in some instances are as good as some of the generally acknowledged better QBs in the league. If you'd just exhibit some impulse control and restraint instead of foaming at the mouth anytime anything good is attributed to MM, maybe I wouldn't in turn be drawn into these threads as a result, pointing out how biased your disingenuous opinion that I reject is. Absolutely Henne is old news, but one's trackrecord of posts is, IMO, a legitimate basis for either rejecting or agreeing with someone's extreme opinion. Case in point, you're one of about 4 foaming Moore haters here. One new one's agenda however was quickly revealed when in an unrelated thread, he compared Henne to Drew Brees. Come on now. Can anyone take his opinion seriously after that? It is what it is.
Ilovemyfins4eva
Active Roster
im just curious, can you tell me the 3 games ''moore cost us 100 percent ''like u make it seem he did?
i think i know which ones u r going to say, so tell me if im right.
bronco game- ok, did the offense light it up? no. however, we had a freaking 15-0 lead with under 5 minutes to go against arguably one of the worst qbs in the nfl, and especially true at the time we played tebow which was his 1st start of the year. the guy couldnt hit **** the entire game, missed wide open guys downfield, and we had a 15 -0 lead. blaming moore fully for that game and letting the defense off the hook would be like matt moore throwing for 300 yds, 3 tds and 0 ints through 3 qtrs and than in the 4th qtr going 4-14, throwing 2 ints including a pick 6 to lose. would you say moore played well if that were the case? NO, u would say he choked which would be correct. well that is the same thing the defense did, they allowed a lethargic denver offense which looked like a jv high school offense put up 15 points in under 5 minutes to tie the game , including a 2 pt conversion. this to a qb who is arguably the worst throwing qb in the nfl. Moore deff was not lights out that day and no one was saying he was, but to say he was the ''reason'' we lost that game is ridiculous.
game 2- cowboys. again, moore started off strugglish, then looked good at times and then so. he was solid that day, not great, not awful. However, same thing for the denver game, as much as u bring up moores missed passes, he left the field with the lead with under 2 minutes to go. the defense played well at times, but they also choked if u recall, including various times having romo sacked for a huge loss only to let him run free and complete big yard plays and continue drives. again, moore wasnt great that day, but considering the team and environment, and the day being thanksgiving where the cowboys are especially hard to beat, he didnt play awful, and to say the soul purpose of that loss was on moore and defense has no responsibility, would be like saying that a qb who played great for 3 qtrs but in the 4th shat the bed with 2 ints, including a pick 6, has no responsibility for the loss. that was how the defense pretty much was.
game 3- i assume u r talking about the pats game. he started off great, we were up 17-0 at half if i recall, and again, defense choked. now did Moore played great in the 2nd half? no. however, we had a 17-0 lead in foxboro going into the half, we scored 24 pts, but the defense couldn't get a stop.
i believe u win and lose a team, just like the games we won with moore he was a big part of some of them, but im not going to sit here despite me liking him and say he was 100 percent the reason we won and not give any credit to any other parts of the team. well i think the same thing goes for a loss, although he deff fumbles alot which i a very legit concern, to say he is 100 percent the reason we lost those games, rather than direct any blame to any part of the team, including the defense which chokes away a 15 pt lead to one of the most lethargic defenses i had seen on a football field in nfl history that day, i think is a very unfair way to look at the whole picture, but then again, i cant change your opinion.
enigmatics
Go get me a juice box!
I'm glad you brought this up and I have to tell you, I could even see it on TV (albeit not as much as you could at the games). It's what really grew on me about him, especially since I initially scoffed at his signing. Watching Henne out there try to command his teammates and light a proverbial fire under their butts was embarrassing. He was like a log of wood with a Dolphins jersey. Being overtly enthusiastic and sometimes intense are characteristics I consider must's for a QB. Matt's most definitely got'em. I guess I was just spoiled by having watched probably the most passionate and commanding QB in the game when it comes to Marino. The guy's competitive fire was forever on display on the field. I remember I used to try to emulate that in my soccer games as a youngster.
I can't wait to see what Philbin and staff can do with Moore. His fellow teammates considered him MVP last year. Jason Taylor openly gloated about him in his farewell locker room speech. He's got a knack for the big play via the deep ball, runs the play-action and boot leg very well. He just needs to cut down on always looking deep which leads to holding the ball too long and ball security fumble-wise. Let's not forget though, that stands to improve if the O-line does it's part to improve. I just wonder if they're actually gonna coach him up instead of just treating him like a step-child to their golden boy Tanny. God forbid they have the luxury of developing two young QB's. It's a win-win if it happens because they'd have two tremendous assets in a QB starved league.
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