QB ROOKIE SENSATION

[MT DOLPHINS]

I know everybody's writing Tua off for Herbert and I get it. Im shocked too, I was torn between both. I thought we were going to take Herbert and regret it like usual Miami bad luck.

But just remember Rookie seasons are deceiving! We all remember RG3 talk of watch out the next 20 years. I think Tua does have the fire in his heart and desire to make it happen.

Here's a look at the QBs draft in 2012:
Andrew Luck respectable career
First round, 1st overall, Stanford, Colts.

Robert Griffin III WON NOTHING ROOKIE SENSATION
First round, 2nd overall, Baylor, Redskins.
GOT ALL HE HYPE WATCH OUT FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS

Ryan Tannehill respectable career
First round, 8th overall, Texas A&M, Dolphins.

Brandon Weeden
First round, 22nd overall, Oklahoma State, Browns.
Brock Osweiler
Second round, 57th overall, Arizona State, Broncos.

Russell Wilson SUPERBOWL CHAMP
Third round, 75th overall, Wisconsin, Seahawks.

Nick Foles SUPERBOWL CHAMP
Third round, 88th overall, Arizona, Eagles.

Kirk Cousins respectable career
Fourth round, 102nd overall, Michigan State, Redskins.

 

[Gatorboy999120]

I hate the whole "Tua needs a WR to be wide open to hit him/can't throw to contested WR's" theory..was kinda true last year he didn't and was reluctant to throw to "covered" guys..but in the NFL it's hard to get true separation..he's gonna have to do it eventually..

Remember, fellas, he's coming off a major surgery that could have been career threatening..is it possible that was in his head a little and one cause for a lot of quick checkdowns and such we saw so often when he was under pressure? He wasn't one to get rid of it quickly when with bama so idk that that's a trend we'll see continuing..give him a chance! IF he sucks this year, then maybe it's time to cut your losses..until then...

 

[John813]

Not saying RG3 was going to be great, but his leg was never the same after his rookie year knee injury/Mike playing him through the December injury only to get it completely ****ed in the playoff game. Torn MCL,LCL and meniscus.

Hard to be a RPO QB without mobility an overreaching owner who wanted RG3 to be a dropback passer and a coach who may of never wanted to make that trade.

Making RG3 a dropback guy would be like getting Lamar to only be a dropback passer. IT would severely limit his playmaking ability.

 

[MT DOLPHINS]

Not saying RG3 was going to be great, but his leg was never the same after his rookie year knee injury/Mike playing him through the December injury only to get it completely ****ed in the playoff game. Torn MCL,LCL and meniscus.

Hard to be a RPO QB without mobility an overreaching owner who wanted RG3 to be a dropback passer and a coach who may of never wanted to make that trade.

Making RG3 a dropback guy would be like getting Lamar to only be a dropback passer. IT would severely limit his playmaking ability.

Agree injury didn't help RG3 career but looking back when all speculation was he's going to be the man for 20 years well your legs can't be an excuse if you an NFL PRO quarterback.

Herbert had plenty of time to throw and could escaped to throw too wide open receivers more often than not. It's just deceiving we'll have to wait and see.

Tua did also beat Herbert in their first head to head. You can say it was defense but he didn't blow the game like Herbert did!!!!!!!!!

Marino - Brady never had wheels. They have vision and an accuracy that last 20 years plus now. I think Tua has the vision and accuracy he just needs to trust himself.

 

[MT DOLPHINS]

Agree injury didn't help RG3 career but looking back when all speculation was he's going to be the man for 20 years well your legs can't be an excuse if you an NFL PRO quarterback.

Herbert had plenty of time to throw and could escaped to throw too wide open receivers more often than not. It's just deceiving we'll have to wait and see.

Tua did also beat Herbert in their first head to head. You can say it was defense but he didn't blow the game like Herbert did!!!!!!!!!

Marino - Brady never had wheels. They have vision and an accuracy that last 20 years plus now. I think Tua has the vision and accuracy he just needs to trust himself.

 

[67Stang]

I hate the whole "Tua needs a WR to be wide open to hit him/can't throw to contested WR's" theory..was kinda true last year he didn't and was reluctant to throw to "covered" guys..but in the NFL it's hard to get true separation..he's gonna have to do it eventually..

Remember, fellas, he's coming off a major surgery that could have been career threatening..is it possible that was in his head a little and one cause for a lot of quick checkdowns and such we saw so often when he was under pressure? He wasn't one to get rid of it quickly when with bama so idk that that's a trend we'll see continuing..give him a chance! IF he sucks this year, then maybe it's time to cut your losses..until then...

I hear what you are saying, and agree to a point....but in regards to Herbert, there was a night and day difference between offensive talent on both teams. Fitz went 3-3 to start the season, and his wins came against the two teams picking first in the draft and a QB playing on 1 leg (San Fran). In those 6 games, he had 7 picks. It was CLEARLY not only Tua, and Fitz had our best healthy receivers. Tua looked pretty good when he had Parker and Preston Williams healthy. After Williams went down and Parker was gimping again, our receiver core was a sad joke. I mean one of Tua's main targets went from our PS to the Patriots, and their PS and back to us. Anyone calling that "excuses" is delusional.

 

[lbmclean_nocal]

Herbert had great receivers

 

[PHINANALYST]

This isn’t about Herbert OR his WRs ....

This is about TUA and that he did not show much in year 1 .... use whatever excuse you want - FITZMAJIC seemed to make it work, so WRs are a weak argument ... (but yes, they aren’t very good).

I pray that he miraculously shows up this year, it’s year 2 ... cuz he did NOT show very well year 1. This isn’t AL, this is big boy football ... and everyone is good ...

 

[Beach Bum]

Personally, the only thing that matters to me regarding Tua is what happens this year. He obviously has the character and work ethic. Good or bad, it should tell us all that we need to know.

 

[Durango2020]

This isn’t about Herbert OR his WRs ....

This is about TUA and that he did not show much in year 1 .... use whatever excuse you want - FITZMAJIC seemed to make it work, so WRs are a weak argument ... (but yes, they aren’t very good).

I pray that he miraculously shows up this year, it’s year 2 ... cuz he did NOT show very well year 1. This isn’t AL, this is big boy football ... and everyone is good ...

Comparing Tua to Fitzpatrick is, to be frank, rather silly. It's akin to a fresh out of college to a senior level professional of that said profession. It's obvious the person with more experience under their belt will provide better results. The only thing we can compare Tua with is how much he improves this season compared to last season. That's the marker we need to look at.

 

[Digital]

Every one of those QB's who became successes had at least flashes of success as rookies. RGIII could have been great but his ego prevented him from ever embracing becoming a pocket passer. He foolishly risked his body at every turn, and when his elite Olympic speed was taken from him through a knee injury, he had nothing but bitterness and stubbornness to carry him, and never became that pocket passer. One play, that's what doomed his career, but that play was always likely to happen given his mindset and play style.

Russell Wilson protects his body, and had already become that pocket passer. Wilson realized there was value in being a scrambler rather than a runner. Wilson became exceptional. RGII became a blip and then a memory.

Luck had more injury issues than RGIII, so the story there was all about durability. Even today teams would be falling over themselves to give Andrew Luck another chance if he were to return healthy.

Tannehill always had good numbers, but his humility prevented many from ever getting behind him. The Dolphins never built around him, and he always played with a bloated, over-paid, underperforming, injury-riddled OL. When he went to Tennessee with a good OL and RB, he showed very well. Not because he blossomed, but because he had support.

Weeden wasn't good enough, and never flahsed.

Foles flashed but turned out he wasn't good enough.

Cousins made waves even when RGIII was shining brightly as a rookie. I'm not a big Cousins fan, but he holds the model well. He flashed and he later had success.

Say whatever you want about Burrow and Herbert, but both shone brightly as rookies, showing many flashes of ability. Chances are both become very good QB's in their NFL careers. We can debate how Tua did, but I think he showed flashes in the Arizona game at the very least.

Your examples show two points:
1. Good QB's flash in their rookie seasons, and if they don't flash as rookies, the future is not bright.
2. Durability is king. Luck and RGIII failed to reach their potential because of injury. Or, as Bill Parcells used to say "the most important ability is ... availability." That's a lesson I fear Albert Wilson and Allen Hurns are going to learn this year.

 

[Pete345]

Herbert played with the 30th rated OLine and was running and scrambling every game and making accurate throws and decisions Tua couldnt make all year. He was way better at avoiding sacks and throwing under pressure than Tua. Tua who is too small in the pocket was lousy most of time when pressured. Tua's decision making wasnt all that good either.
Fans making excuses for Tua against Herbert's performance all year are just wrong and lame. Herbert was clearly the much better QB thats reality.

I thought Tua was the better prospect like most but I was wrong. Herbert showed us all wrong.

 

[Gatorboy999120]

I hear what you are saying, and agree to a point....but in regards to Herbert, there was a night and day difference between offensive talent on both teams. Fitz went 3-3 to start the season, and his wins came against the two teams picking first in the draft and a QB playing on 1 leg (San Fran). In those 6 games, he had 7 picks. It was CLEARLY not only Tua, and Fitz had our best healthy receivers. Tua looked pretty good when he had Parker and Preston Williams healthy. After Williams went down and Parker was gimping again, our receiver core was a sad joke. I mean one of Tua's main targets went from our PS to the Patriots, and their PS and back to us. Anyone calling that "excuses" is delusional.

I get ya. I like tua. Give him a chance.

Every one of those QB's who became successes had at least flashes of success as rookies. RGIII could have been great but his ego prevented him from ever embracing becoming a pocket passer. He foolishly risked his body at every turn, and when his elite Olympic speed was taken from him through a knee injury, he had nothing but bitterness and stubbornness to carry him, and never became that pocket passer. One play, that's what doomed his career, but that play was always likely to happen given his mindset and play style.

Russell Wilson protects his body, and had already become that pocket passer. Wilson realized there was value in being a scrambler rather than a runner. Wilson became exceptional. RGII became a blip and then a memory.

Luck had more injury issues than RGIII, so the story there was all about durability. Even today teams would be falling over themselves to give Andrew Luck another chance if he were to return healthy.

Tannehill always had good numbers, but his humility prevented many from ever getting behind him. The Dolphins never built around him, and he always played with a bloated, over-paid, underperforming, injury-riddled OL. When he went to Tennessee with a good OL and RB, he showed very well. Not because he blossomed, but because he had support.

Weeden wasn't good enough, and never flahsed.

Foles flashed but turned out he wasn't good enough.

Cousins made waves even when RGIII was shining brightly as a rookie. I'm not a big Cousins fan, but he holds the model well. He flashed and he later had success.

Say whatever you want about Burrow and Herbert, but both shone brightly as rookies, showing many flashes of ability. Chances are both become very good QB's in their NFL careers. We can debate how Tua did, but I think he showed flashes in the Arizona game at the very least.

Your examples show two points:
1. Good QB's flash in their rookie seasons, and if they don't flash as rookies, the future is not bright.
2. Durability is king. Luck and RGIII failed to reach their potential because of injury. Or, as Bill Parcells used to say "the most important ability is ... availability." That's a lesson I fear Albert Wilson and Allen Hurns are going to learn this year.

neither of burrow or Herbert was coming off a devastating injury that could have kept him on the sideline and no one would have complained, either

 

[Digital]

I get ya. I like tua. Give him a chance.

neither of burrow or Herbert was coming off a devastating injury that could have kept him on the sideline and no one would have complained, either

RGIII came off a big lower body injury. Didn't work out well for him though.

 

[vcip]

Herbert had great receivers

I recall there was a Charger guy here rebuking this somewhat saying the main guys missed games and there were two no names gathering TD's