OrangeBowl
Street Survivor
If its upgrading from mike white than i'm down.
QB? Should the Miami Dolphins draft a QB and avoid a potential Ryan Tannehill repeat?
- Thread starter Perfect72
- Start date
YES. These are the real needs. It's a team effort, not one guy who relies on everyone else to do their job so he can do his.
Yeah... I know... he screws up too.
No, it's not. It's implied that the Bills team as a collective is better than the Dolphins as a collective. That's not at all what you said, and not what is implied.
Springveldt
Club Member
How did Tua fail? Have I missed Tua's playoff games?
I’m with ya dude. My comments is he hasn’t won anything YET. He hasn’t won a statement game this year. But a loss is not solely on the QB either. All I’m saying is that Lamar has taken his game to another level. I’m a Tua fan and has always been, but I see issues in his game so I’m concerned. But there is no bigger cheerleader than I am on Sundays. I’m just not too confident with this game on Sunday. I hope I’m wrong
He hasn’t played well playing against any of these contending this year. He never rose to the top. The DALLAS game is debatable to me. I just don’t think Dallas is all that good. I really believe the way the Fins and Dallas’ seasons have gone this year were both on equal footing. Lose against good teams and play well at home.
By all means we should draft a QB in the first round of this year’s draft because we just can’t trust our present PRO BOWL QB who has help lead the team to two straight playoff appearances and is near the top of all QB stats this year. Or just maybe draft best center, linebacker, and TE. Just a thought.
Aqua Marino (UK)
Active Roster
The Fins will stick with Tua and rightly so. While there are still question marks against him in the big games, he is young enough to improve further and the whole offense is geared around his strengths.
There is no harm on taking a flyer in Rd 6 or 7 on a QB that might be a hidden gem but I'd be jaw droppingly shocked if we moved off Tua this off-season.
There is no harm on taking a flyer in Rd 6 or 7 on a QB that might be a hidden gem but I'd be jaw droppingly shocked if we moved off Tua this off-season.
Personally I am of the type that believes your NFL team should draft a quarterback every year if possible.
Ray R
Club Member
You forgot something!One of my favorite quotes.
And then he went on to "A VERY SUCCESFUL CAREER". - LOL
AgentXof12
Active Roster
Easy... Rider. Does me not knowing you were a Tua supporter make me an idiot? No. I'm not a troll. I just don't read this board religiously, so I wouldn't know who is a hater and who isn't. I'm glad to know you've been a Tua supporter, and of course I have some doubts about Tua's ceiling as well. I'm merely going to call out arguments that I see as being lacking, especially when it comes to comparisons between QBs. It's absolutely a known narrative about Lamar Jackson that he has not shown up for the Ravens in playoff games. What he demonstrated against the Dolphins was pretty good, although it's worth adding that our defense is far from at its best and he had an easy time slicing it up. We say the same things about Tua and the games where he feasted on bad defenses. Therefore, we must also credit Tua when he has destroyed good defenses such as facing the Jets and Cowboys.
There are many things we ought to concentrate on with Tua, but saying he has never shown up in a big game is a falsehood. He has shown up sometimes. Allen has shown up sometimes. Jackson has shown up sometimes. Tua has a pattern of when he doesn't show up just like he has a pattern of when he might totally **** the bed on us. The nice thing about patterns like that is they can be remedied the same way they can be exploited.
Also, the Ravens defense played a key role in dismantling the 49ers as much as Jackson did. That whole Ravens team is on a tear against good teams right now.
PS. I'm not sure the Dolphins should extend Tua. I feel like that deserves a lot of scrutiny and not because I think Tua is an unknown or isn't as good as his numbers say but because of what that contract's implications for the roster would be. He should consider taking a Dolphins-friendly contract so that we can build a complete team around him. Go win a Superbowl and then cash in to the highest extent...
Mello Yello
Active Roster
I posted this in the other Tua thread but I'll copy/paste it here and would love some feedback. I've been pondering this for the last couple months. We all like Tua but we also all seem to think that 90% of QBs are either disappointing or overpaid these days. We all want a franchise QB but we also want money to spend on the team, too. It's tough to predict where we'll be in 2025.
This is actually an interesting topic believe it or not...and it has very little, if anything, to do with Tua himself.
I think we all appreciate that Tua is productive but your feelings on this should tie to how much he's going to cost and whether or not it's good for the Miami Dolphins to sink that into him long-term.
Look at all the QBs who made the Super Bowl from the last 20 or so years who were on rookie deals:
Hurts
Burrow
Mahomes
Goff
Wentz
Wilson
Kaepernick
Eli Manning
Roethlisberger
Grossman
Brady
Now look at the QBs who made it on 2nd/3rd deals but who were generally viewed as averaged / replaceable:
Stafford
Garoppolo
Newton
Ryan
Flacco
Hasselbeck
McNabb
Gannon
Dilfer
Warner
The point here is that it doesn't take an all-time great or HoF QB to reach the Super Bowl and moreover, having such a QB doesn't guarantee you'll get more than 1 or maybe 2 shots at it. Peyton dominated with the Colts but only made it twice (until reaching two more with Denver). Brees dominated with the Saints and only made it once. Philip Rivers famously never got there at all despite some incredible seasons in San Diego.
If you remove some of the repeat offenders that skew the data (guys like Brady, Peyton, Mahomes who were all-time greats who got there repeatedly) you can actually make a case that the best (or at least most common) way to get to the Super Bowl is with a good team that features a rookie-contract QB (or an equally-cheap one).
It makes sense...you have to find a hack somewhere. If you have a great team, it's probably an expensive one. Those roster spots won't all be rookie-contract players. Finding a cheap QB is a HUGE bonus that offers incredible advantage over the rest of the field.
Believe it or not, this is kind of the meta game that's happening in the NFL.
Roughly 50% of QBs in the Super Bowl these days are rookie-contract players and the majority are relatively cheap QBs with many of the other guys being slightly above-average veterans like Matt Hasselbeck, Jimmy Garoppolo, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco who happen to be on the right team at the right time with the right players and coaching supporting them. Without the Brady's and Mahomes' there to skew the data in favor of the narrative that "only elite QBs get there" we see something very different among the various year-to-year Super Bowl match-ups.
The relatively low-cost of the QB plays a huge role and is often their biggest feature. From the random guys like Rex Grossman and Colin Kaepernick to the long-term starters like Roethlisberger, Mahomes and Wilson who simply joined great teams and won the Lombardi in year #2...the list is actually shockingly long and the argument that a 2nd/3rd contract is a huge part of what actually shuts the window is somewhat compelling.
If that's truly the new modus operandi of the NFL then maybe the Dolphins should be planning to replace Tua regardless of how he plays? We can safely say he's not a physical freak like Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes or Lamar Jackson and is thus unlikely to provide the "unstoppable" offenses they've had at their peak (blame this on a lack of mobility) and thus he's almost assured to become too expensive for his own good as a purely pocket passer should he earn a big extension (and that's not saying a thing about his being injured 5 of his 6 seasons as a starter at both Bama & Miami).
The Rams have made the Super Bowl twice in recent memory...each time with a different QB (Goff & Stafford). So have the Eagles (Wentz, Foles & Hurts). If the 49ers get there this year, they'll have done the same (Garoppolo & Purdy). Reaching the Super Bowl has so much to do with the team being good that maybe having turnover at QB isn't as bad as commonly thought. If the team is good, the QB is far more likely to have success anyway, right? Maybe you don't "have to" resign a QB just because he plays well?
I think we all understand the impulse to resign Mahomes, Jackson and maybe Allen to the high-priced contracts they've secured but the problem seems to be securing the "other" guys at reasonable prices. Too often we see a Tannehill at $30M or we're talking about some reasonably solid guy like Prescott, Wilson, Herbert, etc. at $40M. I think that's where teams go wrong. None of those QBs are bad...until you factor in the prices.
It's outside-the-box thinking compared with the conventional "you must secure your franchise QB" thinking which dominates internet forums but nonetheless, it's hard to ignore that Tua's biggest feature this year has been the fact that he only cost the Dolphins $10M. No other QB has produced like Tua on a per-dollar basis. The unfortunate reality is that a high-priced extension negates Tua's biggest strength.
It's pretty easy to like your QB when the team's roster is strong and the QB is still on his cheap rookie deal. The real question is whether it's better to retain Tua and buy him a bigger house with a $40M/yr salary or look at the possibility of spending that money on reinforcing the team itself. After all, it's not hard to imagine a young QB coming in and being successful on this team with an offensive-minded HC to hold his hand and with weapons like Mostert, Achane, Hill, Waddle, etc.
Another interesting feature of the "build the team" strategy is that drafting a QB who's a bust (e.g. Trey Lance) doesn't seem to upend the progress the team makes. The 49ers moved right along finding Purdy in the later rounds as did the Eagles with Hurts when his predecessor(s) failed.
So we get to the million dollar question....do we honestly think the Dolphins would consider passing up on Tua?
Eh, the pressure to re-sign and to validate Tua's selection seems high so I think Grier would err on the side of re-signing Tua. However, if the team fails to win a Play-off game this year that'll sting. And if Tua struggles with more injury next year it feels like all bets would be off.
This is actually an interesting topic believe it or not...and it has very little, if anything, to do with Tua himself.
I think we all appreciate that Tua is productive but your feelings on this should tie to how much he's going to cost and whether or not it's good for the Miami Dolphins to sink that into him long-term.
Look at all the QBs who made the Super Bowl from the last 20 or so years who were on rookie deals:
Hurts
Burrow
Mahomes
Goff
Wentz
Wilson
Kaepernick
Eli Manning
Roethlisberger
Grossman
Brady
Now look at the QBs who made it on 2nd/3rd deals but who were generally viewed as averaged / replaceable:
Stafford
Garoppolo
Newton
Ryan
Flacco
Hasselbeck
McNabb
Gannon
Dilfer
Warner
The point here is that it doesn't take an all-time great or HoF QB to reach the Super Bowl and moreover, having such a QB doesn't guarantee you'll get more than 1 or maybe 2 shots at it. Peyton dominated with the Colts but only made it twice (until reaching two more with Denver). Brees dominated with the Saints and only made it once. Philip Rivers famously never got there at all despite some incredible seasons in San Diego.
If you remove some of the repeat offenders that skew the data (guys like Brady, Peyton, Mahomes who were all-time greats who got there repeatedly) you can actually make a case that the best (or at least most common) way to get to the Super Bowl is with a good team that features a rookie-contract QB (or an equally-cheap one).
It makes sense...you have to find a hack somewhere. If you have a great team, it's probably an expensive one. Those roster spots won't all be rookie-contract players. Finding a cheap QB is a HUGE bonus that offers incredible advantage over the rest of the field.
Believe it or not, this is kind of the meta game that's happening in the NFL.
Roughly 50% of QBs in the Super Bowl these days are rookie-contract players and the majority are relatively cheap QBs with many of the other guys being slightly above-average veterans like Matt Hasselbeck, Jimmy Garoppolo, Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco who happen to be on the right team at the right time with the right players and coaching supporting them. Without the Brady's and Mahomes' there to skew the data in favor of the narrative that "only elite QBs get there" we see something very different among the various year-to-year Super Bowl match-ups.
The relatively low-cost of the QB plays a huge role and is often their biggest feature. From the random guys like Rex Grossman and Colin Kaepernick to the long-term starters like Roethlisberger, Mahomes and Wilson who simply joined great teams and won the Lombardi in year #2...the list is actually shockingly long and the argument that a 2nd/3rd contract is a huge part of what actually shuts the window is somewhat compelling.
If that's truly the new modus operandi of the NFL then maybe the Dolphins should be planning to replace Tua regardless of how he plays? We can safely say he's not a physical freak like Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes or Lamar Jackson and is thus unlikely to provide the "unstoppable" offenses they've had at their peak (blame this on a lack of mobility) and thus he's almost assured to become too expensive for his own good as a purely pocket passer should he earn a big extension (and that's not saying a thing about his being injured 5 of his 6 seasons as a starter at both Bama & Miami).
The Rams have made the Super Bowl twice in recent memory...each time with a different QB (Goff & Stafford). So have the Eagles (Wentz, Foles & Hurts). If the 49ers get there this year, they'll have done the same (Garoppolo & Purdy). Reaching the Super Bowl has so much to do with the team being good that maybe having turnover at QB isn't as bad as commonly thought. If the team is good, the QB is far more likely to have success anyway, right? Maybe you don't "have to" resign a QB just because he plays well?
I think we all understand the impulse to resign Mahomes, Jackson and maybe Allen to the high-priced contracts they've secured but the problem seems to be securing the "other" guys at reasonable prices. Too often we see a Tannehill at $30M or we're talking about some reasonably solid guy like Prescott, Wilson, Herbert, etc. at $40M. I think that's where teams go wrong. None of those QBs are bad...until you factor in the prices.
It's outside-the-box thinking compared with the conventional "you must secure your franchise QB" thinking which dominates internet forums but nonetheless, it's hard to ignore that Tua's biggest feature this year has been the fact that he only cost the Dolphins $10M. No other QB has produced like Tua on a per-dollar basis. The unfortunate reality is that a high-priced extension negates Tua's biggest strength.
It's pretty easy to like your QB when the team's roster is strong and the QB is still on his cheap rookie deal. The real question is whether it's better to retain Tua and buy him a bigger house with a $40M/yr salary or look at the possibility of spending that money on reinforcing the team itself. After all, it's not hard to imagine a young QB coming in and being successful on this team with an offensive-minded HC to hold his hand and with weapons like Mostert, Achane, Hill, Waddle, etc.
Another interesting feature of the "build the team" strategy is that drafting a QB who's a bust (e.g. Trey Lance) doesn't seem to upend the progress the team makes. The 49ers moved right along finding Purdy in the later rounds as did the Eagles with Hurts when his predecessor(s) failed.
So we get to the million dollar question....do we honestly think the Dolphins would consider passing up on Tua?
Eh, the pressure to re-sign and to validate Tua's selection seems high so I think Grier would err on the side of re-signing Tua. However, if the team fails to win a Play-off game this year that'll sting. And if Tua struggles with more injury next year it feels like all bets would be off.