QB? Should the Miami Dolphins draft a QB and avoid a potential Ryan Tannehill repeat?

[Rowdy1972]

QB’s who show up in big games when it matters
You know, like Lamar Jackson

Was it that hard for ya?

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Such a big time player that he's 1-3 in the playoffs and the one game he won he threw 0 TDs and and INT with 179 yards. BIG TIME PLAYER. You are the most emotional poster around here that just spews irrational ****.

 

[TannDaMan17]

Such a big time player that he's 1-3 in the playoffs and the one game he won he threw 0 TDs and and INT with 179 yards. BIG TIME PLAYER. You are the most emotional poster around here that just spews irrational ****.

Correct. Lamar hasn't proven anything yet, other than the ability to win meaningless games at a high clip. The real season is about to start, and there's only 1 winner. Everyone else will have failed with a disappointing season.

 

[WaddleWaddle]

It wouldn't shock me at all if Tua signs an extremely team friendly deal to make sure we can still pay other positions. I think people underestimate the impact Flores/McDaniel have had on Tua. Tua is happy, he's confident, he loves going to work and he loves this team. He also knows that's not how every coach or team in the NFL works because he went through the Flores experience and was likely miserable the entire time.

My prediction is he signs a contract that is much less than any of us are expecting because he's truly happy now.

 

[Jamesw]

this is going to be a long off season man....sigh

No Danny. It will be a short offseason because our current season will end with a Super Bowl victory!

Phins Up!

 

[circumstances]

I could see drafting Penix Jr. in the 2nd round, not necessarily to replace Tua but to bring in a backup with potential.

Both lefties, both throw beautiful accurate deep passes, insurance for injuries, and if Miami chooses not to extend Tua this offseason it might give options heading into 2025.

We’ve seen that when Tua goes down the offense goes down with him.

I'd draft him for his name alone

 

[EasyRider]

Such a big time player that he's 1-3 in the playoffs and the one game he won he threw 0 TDs and and INT with 179 yards. BIG TIME PLAYER. You are the most emotional poster around here that just spews irrational ****.

You’re a D**e
Reading Comprehension????
He’s turned into a big time player nitwit
He has not been one before
Read next time or you get put on ignore
But, you’ve had this lack of comprehension in the past

 

[EasyRider]

Easy... Rider. Does me not knowing you were a Tua supporter make me an idiot? No. I'm not a troll. I just don't read this board religiously, so I wouldn't know who is a hater and who isn't. I'm glad to know you've been a Tua supporter, and of course I have some doubts about Tua's ceiling as well. I'm merely going to call out arguments that I see as being lacking, especially when it comes to comparisons between QBs. It's absolutely a known narrative about Lamar Jackson that he has not shown up for the Ravens in playoff games. What he demonstrated against the Dolphins was pretty good, although it's worth adding that our defense is far from at its best and he had an easy time slicing it up. We say the same things about Tua and the games where he feasted on bad defenses. Therefore, we must also credit Tua when he has destroyed good defenses such as facing the Jets and Cowboys.

There are many things we ought to concentrate on with Tua, but saying he has never shown up in a big game is a falsehood. He has shown up sometimes. Allen has shown up sometimes. Jackson has shown up sometimes. Tua has a pattern of when he doesn't show up just like he has a pattern of when he might totally **** the bed on us. The nice thing about patterns like that is they can be remedied the same way they can be exploited.

Also, the Ravens defense played a key role in dismantling the 49ers as much as Jackson did. That whole Ravens team is on a tear against good teams right now.

PS. I'm not sure the Dolphins should extend Tua. I feel like that deserves a lot of scrutiny and not because I think Tua is an unknown or isn't as good as his numbers say but because of what that contract's implications for the roster would be. He should consider taking a Dolphins-friendly contract so that we can build a complete team around him. Go win a Superbowl and then cash in to the highest extent...

Here’s the bottom line
You don’t know me then don’t put words in my mouth as a hater as you pointed out

And No, Lamar is not all of a sudden a superstar but he has shown up this year on the big stage. We’ll see in the playoffs
However, Tua has yet to step up. He’s done great against bad teams this year but has not stepped up against the big teams

 

[Rev Kev]

Miami Dolphins needs to draft a quarterback

Ryan Tannehill was selected 8th overall in the 2012 NFL draft. The highest draft selection ever made by the Miami Dolphins on a quarterback. This was a player

phinphanatic.com

The Miami Dolphins are in the playoffs for the 2nd year in a row but should QB be a focus in the NFL Draft given Tua Tagovailoa's future?

Ryan Tannehill was selected 8th overall in the 2012 NFL draft. The highest draft selection ever made by the Miami Dolphins on a quarterback. This was a player who was deemed a prospect that would allow the Dolphins to stop the quarterback carousel they have had since Dan Marino retired. The hype was justified. His former collegiate head coach, was also the Miami Dolphins new Offensive Coordinator. The way Tannehill played justified his 8th overall selection during his time at Texas A&M, thereby leading to hope. Hope for the Miami Dolphins fans.

Tannehill's tenure with the Dolphins was met with a lot of ups and downs. He played well enough to earn a second contract, where the Dolphins in 2015 re-signed him to a 6 year, 96 Million dollar contract. Which at that time was substantial. A large commitment to a player with a large history of injury concerns.

The Dolphins, after signing Tannehill to that contract, never saw him play a full season nor play in a playoff game. This eventually led to him being traded to the Titans for a bag of footballs. Basically, a salary clearing trade that was best for both teams.

Where am I going with all of this - history tends to repeat itself with the Miami Dolphins. Fast forward to the present and the Dolphins have a decision to make about Tua Tagovailoa. Yes, the Dolphins picked up Tua's 5th-year option, which will ensure that he will start the 2024, and 2025 seasons, but should they look to re-sign him to a lucrative deal, knowing the injury concerns assigned to Tua?

You need to also take into consideration the Miami Dolphins cap situation. Remember, this offseason, Connor Williams, Chris Wilkins, Robert Hunt and Andrew Van Ginkel are all unrestricted free agents.

Then, Jaylen Waddle, Jaelan Phillips, and Jevon Holland are all looking for contract extensions, with the latter being an unrestricted free agent.

Lastly, it’s not like the Miami Dolphins have a plethora of cap space, they are actually forecasted to be 41MM over the cap. This means a lot of restructures, cuts, trades, and potentially deferring to future years, which doesn’t fix the cap, just punts it to another year.

Do the Dolphins really want to add a 40 to 50 million cap hit on a starting quarterback with injury concerns? Or should they look to foster a team that is built to win.

The Dolphins can achieve this by drafting a quarterback with their 1st round pick in this year's upcoming draft. If Tua leads the Dolphins to an AFC championship game or even the Super Bowl, then yes, this becomes a moot point. But what happens if it is a one and done playoff experience?

Getting a young QB prospect that is cap friendly for the next four to five seasons, and a team that is built to win is a strategy that has paid off. Having Tua around next year to mentor, groom, and teach a prospect is another advantage for the development of the prospect.

Who can they look to target - Caleb Williams is the cream of the crop and a player with a laser arm, and no injury concerns, but let’s be realistic. He’s going top 3. The Dolphins potentially look to create a trade-up scenario similar to how the Bills got Josh Allen, or how the Chiefs obtained Patrick Mahomes.

The opportunity will present itself, the Dolphins would be wise to consider a move of this magnitude. Or, they can look to repeat history. Resign Tua, just like they did Tannehill and hope they don’t trade him 5 years from now.

If not drafting a QB would help prevent another Ryan Tannehill repeat that would be award one!!!

 

[WaddleWaddle]

Here’s the bottom line
You don’t know me then don’t put words in my mouth as a hater as you pointed out

And No, Lamar is not all of a sudden a superstar but he has shown up this year on the big stage. We’ll see in the playoffs
However, Tua has yet to step up. He’s done great against bad teams this year but has not stepped up against the big teams

I feel as though the team as a whole hasn't stepped up against the big teams rather than just Tua. Understandably Tua is the focus as he is the QB and they are held to different standards than other positions but I really don't think he's the reason we lost any of the big games. IMO both the Bills and Ravens games are entirely on the defense playing like they are a CFL team. I also think it's alot easier to defend any offense when you are up 3 scores and time is on your side. Both the Ravens and Bills couldn't care less if we ran the ball when we fell behind and the offense starts pressing as a result. Hill also dropped TD's vs the Eagles (would have made it 17-17) and the Ravens. He also had a massive fumble against the Chiefs that was potentially a 14 point swing and would have completely changed how we played in the second half. I also don't put much stock in the Eagles game because the refs were so laughably one-sided and played a bigger part in that result than I think people realize.

Anyways, I do agree Tua has been at his best against the bad teams but he's also played extremely well against some great defenses (Jets x2, Patriots x2 and Cowboys). Obviously the Jets and Pats are bad teams but that's because they both have terrible offenses. That shouldn't take away from Tua's performance though as they are both solid defenses.

I just don't think it's as simple as saying Tua hasn't stepped up against the good teams. It's a team game and there have been plenty of culprits who have let the team down in these big games. I don't think the Bills/Ravens games end the way they do if our defense managed to get a couple stops early on.

 

[AgentXof12]

Here’s the bottom line
You don’t know me then don’t put words in my mouth as a hater as you pointed out

And No, Lamar is not all of a sudden a superstar but he has shown up this year on the big stage. We’ll see in the playoffs
However, Tua has yet to step up. He’s done great against bad teams this year but has not stepped up against the big teams

I feel like you're being unnecessarily hard on some players.

Yea, the Cowboys are kind of just like the Dolphins. Dak Prescott has had good games against good teams. His playoff record is 2-4.

Lamar Jackson gets unfairly ridiculed by people, too, and his time to shine is coming up. It's his 6th season in the NFL.

Tua is where Jackson once was. He's got eye popping stats. He's led some absolutely stellar come backs and game winning drives. Never forget how he utterly destroyed the Ravens in that 4th quarter come back. His career should be defined more by the times he has led this team down the field and into victory than him having not played in many big games.

Josh Allen has totally **** the bed multiple times, but most of us on here recognize how good Josh Allen is. Only an insane person would jettison Josh Allen, right?

I just don't know that Miami should throw the kitchen sink at extending Tua, because superbowl winning teams need to be a complete roster. Today's NFL may not be conducive to retaining top-5 QBs on absurd contracts while also winning Superbowls. That may be an uncomfortable fact that we have to approach if we really want Superbowls.

But as far as the 4 guys talked about up above are concerned, they're all very good but just haven't had it all together in the biggest moments they've faced. I feel like we would want any one of those 4 QBs if we had only an average QB on the team.

 

[EasyRider]

I feel as though the team as a whole hasn't stepped up against the big teams rather than just Tua. Understandably Tua is the focus as he is the QB and they are held to different standards than other positions but I really don't think he's the reason we lost any of the big games. IMO both the Bills and Ravens games are entirely on the defense playing like they are a CFL team. I also think it's alot easier to defend any offense when you are up 3 scores and time is on your side. Both the Ravens and Bills couldn't care less if we ran the ball when we fell behind and the offense starts pressing as a result. Hill also dropped TD's vs the Eagles (would have made it 17-17) and the Ravens. He also had a massive fumble against the Chiefs that was potentially a 14 point swing and would have completely changed how we played in the second half. I also don't put much stock in the Eagles game because the refs were so laughably one-sided and played a bigger part in that result than I think people realize.

Anyways, I do agree Tua has been at his best against the bad teams but he's also played extremely well against some great defenses (Jets x2, Patriots x2 and Cowboys). Obviously the Jets and Pats are bad teams but that's because they both have terrible offenses. That shouldn't take away from Tua's performance though as they are both solid defenses.

I just don't think it's as simple as saying Tua hasn't stepped up against the good teams. It's a team game and there have been plenty of culprits who have let the team down in these big games. I don't think the Bills/Ravens games end the way they do if our defense managed to get a couple stops early on.

Good reply
Correct on quite a few points

BUT

When the team isn’t playing well and it happens, once in a while you need your QB to carry the team. You gotta put the team on your back. It’s not gonna happen every time but we really haven’t seen Tua do it once
It makes you wonder
Up to this point he’s not that guy, he’s good but really not upper echelon no matter what the numbers look like
People get fooled by stats
Guys like Matt Ryan and Philip Rivers had awesome fantasy stats but they ****ing sucked in fourth quarters when down. Never saw so many fourth quarter picks in my life, those guys were so overrated
I guess the jury is still out on Tua

 

[fastball83]

It wouldn't shock me at all if Tua signs an extremely team friendly deal to make sure we can still pay other positions. I think people underestimate the impact Flores/McDaniel have had on Tua. Tua is happy, he's confident, he loves going to work and he loves this team. He also knows that's not how every coach or team in the NFL works because he went through the Flores experience and was likely miserable the entire time.

My prediction is he signs a contract that is much less than any of us are expecting because he's truly happy now.

100 % Agree with you and pehaps wilkins and williams will go in this direction too

I think really that players like playing for MMD

 

[Mello Yello]

There are two narratives that sometimes get confused.

#1 - Tua is good but will be too expensive (by virtue of being a QB) for his own good and the team around him will suffer by that, to the point it limits what's possible for the Dolphins as a franchise.

While this might be true, there have been plenty of 2nd and 3rd contract QBs who put it all together on some team in some year with some HC. You might only get 1 great year in 10 (e.g. Matt Ryan) but it'll happen if you're consistently doing your job.

#2 - Tua is good but not unstoppable like we've seen from the mobility + arm-talent guys: Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, Jackson & Hurts.

I think both are partially true, but if you buy into #2 you should be questioning whether or not to re-sign anyone who isn't adding on an additional 400 rush yards and 8+ TDs on the ground. At their peak, Mahomes and Rodgers would combine the best passing stats with another 400-yds rushing. Allen and Jackson aren't as prolific through the air but they routinely add 800- and even 1,000-yds of rushing offense to their stats. That's just insane. Hurts had 700 yds last year and has 600 this year. He also has a combined 28 TDs rushing over that span as well. Simply insane.

Even the lower-tier guys still need it. At his best, Burrow added 250 rush yards in '22 the year he got the Super Bowl. Prescott also floats in the 300-ish range. By comparison, Tua's rushing is virtually non-existent, far worse under McDaniel than under Flores FWIW which I take to be more driven by a concern for injury than anything else.

The offenses we've seen more recently dominate the NFL seem to combine the classic pocket-passer things we got from 15 years ago with a new level of mobility from the QB. These new offenses force defenses to do the impossible >> defend the run & pass simultaneously. No matter what you think of Tua, he doesn't (and won't ever) do that.

Even if Tua possesses a lot of Drew Brees' abilities in the pocket, we have to accept that Brees existed with peers like Peyton, Eli, Brady, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Ryan, Flacco, Palmer, Warner, Luck, Tannehill and others. Drop-back passers were the norm in the 2000s. The only consistent outlier was Aaron Rodgers and if we go back, Rodgers absolutely was seen (even in the era of Brady) as the single, most talented QB in the game. Russell Wilson was also coming on at that point, proving the unstoppable nature of mobility as it now exists in its most elite form.

There are busts, for sure. But for every Trey Lance or Zach Wilson or Justin Fields who can't pull it together, there will be home-runs and with enough of those success stores around, a given year will see at least one of those elites having a good-enough season on a good enough team to keep the 2nd-level hopefuls down.

I might be crazy but I like Tua today for the same reasons that I did back in 2018 and 2019. Nothing's really changed. I don't think he even "got better" under McDaniel. He was simply used to full effect IMHO. But I still don't quite feel good about the idea of facing a Mahomes, Allen or Jackson without either (A) one of those types in my corner, too or (B) an historically great defense alongside a ball-control offense like the mid-00s Steelers or the '13 Seahawks.

Convention has always argued for QBs who are pocket-based passers. I'm not sure how much we still live in that world now. If you're not running, if you're not forcing a defense to defend multiple things simultaneously, if you're not making plays outside the script-based structure of your offense (which DCs will always adjust to)...what's your actual upside and is that enough?

 

[realdolphin]

My concerns are not about TUA but the 2nd and 3rd string QBs. I´d grab Russell Wilson as a 2nd behind TUA or a reliable veteran and hopefully contract talks go in fins favor so that we can bring AVG and all the players we need.

 

[NBP81]

I think both are partially true, but if you buy into #2 you should be questioning whether or not to re-sign anyone who isn't adding on an additional 400 rush yards and 8+ TDs on the ground. At their peak, Mahomes and Rodgers would combine the best passing stats with another 400-yds rushing. Allen and Jackson aren't as prolific through the air but they routinely add 800- and even 1,000-yds of rushing offense to their stats. That's just insane. Hurts had 700 yds last year and has 600 this year. He also has a combined 28 TDs rushing over that span as well. Simply insane.

Rushing stats can be bought for peanuts... Hell the Fins got 21 TDs for a 2M cap with Mostert...

Tua is good but not unstoppable like we've seen from the mobility + arm-talent guys: Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, Jackson & Hurts.

Yet, he's sitting with a better record than all but one of them...?