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Question - Fins Defense Thru the Years

PhinCanuck

PhinCanuck

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I have a question about the Fins' defense. Before Saban came, we ran a 4-3 defensive scheme, right? Was it a 4-3, or a version of the 46 defense popularized by Buddy Ryan in Chicago?
I know when Shula was in Miami we used a lot of the 4-3, and the Nickel scheme (Shula and Arnsparger popularized the latter). But the Nickel defense is more like a 3-3-5 defense, is not it? The 4-3 continued with Jimmy Johnson who was known for building the defense around a strong defensive line.
I am just not sure what Wannstead's defensive philosophy was. I think it might have been very similar to Johnson's, since he played and worked with him. I just wonder if Bates spiced it up a bit, or it remained pretty much the same.
 
Shula’s “No-Name Defense” really shined under defensive coordinator Bill Arnsparger’s philosophy of a speedy, relentless, ball-hawking defense, with zone pass coverage. One thing that really disrupted opposing offenses: linebacker Bob Matheson positioning himself at the defensive line to rush the backfield. But I am not really sure what scheme would that be. I guess when it comes to defensive schemes I gt a bit confused.
 
Shula predominately utilized a 4-3. After acquiring Matheson via trade (Cleveland?) and recognizing his ability to both rush and drop into coverage, Arnsparger created the '53' defense, which was named after Matheson's number. On passing downs, the '53' was used and it was really pretty much a 3-4. BTW, I'm pretty certain the Shula-coached 'Phins never went to the Super Bowl without Arnsparger as the DC.

I'm not sure what the defense was in the later Shula years. I'm not really sure we actually fielded a defensive team in the latter Shula years! Johnson brought in a solid 4-3 continued by Wanny. Huge tackles freeing up Zach to make gobs of tackles and great CBs (Madison, Surtain, TBuck) playing on an island. Worked really well most of the time, except when Brock Marion would take bad angles and let guys score 80 yard TDs.
 
pilotfish said:
Shula predominately utilized a 4-3. After acquiring Matheson via trade (Cleveland?) and recognizing his ability to both rush and drop into coverage, Arnsparger created the '53' defense, which was named after Matheson's number. On passing downs, the '53' was used and it was really pretty much a 3-4. BTW, I'm pretty certain the Shula-coached 'Phins never went to the Super Bowl without Arnsparger as the DC.

I'm not sure what the defense was in the later Shula years. I'm not really sure we actually fielded a defensive team in the latter Shula years! Johnson brought in a solid 4-3 continued by Wanny. Huge tackles freeing up Zach to make gobs of tackles and great CBs (Madison, Surtain, TBuck) playing on an island. Worked really well most of the time, except when Brock Marion would take bad angles and let guys score 80 yard TDs.
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Arnsparger's last season in Miami was 1983. The 1984 team that lost in the SB to San Fran had Chuck Studley as the DC.
 
I think Dom Capers can give us one of the best Dolphins defenses ever. I hope he sticks with us for a while. And I hope Cam is smart enough to have a young coach learn everything he can from Dom so he can step into that position when Capers leaves.
 
SoDakDolfan said:
I think Dom Capers can give us one of the best Dolphins defenses ever. I hope he sticks with us for a while. And I hope Cam is smart enough to have a young coach learn everything he can from Dom so he can step into that position when Capers leaves.
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I agree. He is a great DC. If there is anything good Saban left here, was installing a 3-4 defensive scheme. I was a little weary when it was first proposed. But it has really paid off.
Cleveland switched to the 3-4 at the same time we did, but they have not done as well as we have.
Some how, the 3-4 defense has become really popular again in the last few years. Who else has a 3-4? San Diego, the Pats, Cleveland?? Who else? Does houston run the 3-4 too??
 
I forgot SF, Pitts, and I think the raiders run the 3-4 too. Somehow, I think the Ravens ran it before 2005. I am sure they ran it when they won the SB.
 
pilotfish said:
I'm not sure what the defense was in the later Shula years. I'm not really sure we actually fielded a defensive team in the latter Shula years! \.
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Tom Olivadotti !! Man did I ever hate that guy..

Didn't he go to Minnesota afterwards or something and make their defense worse too ?
 
Throughout the 70's and most of the 80's, Shula used the 3-4. Many people would tell you that Bill Arnsparger (our D coordinator) invented the 3-4. Someone above described this as happening because Miami recognized the talents of Bob Matheson. That's not really true. There was a game where the Dolphins DEs kept getting hurt. It got to the point that there were no DE left to go into the game. So, Shula and Arnsparger decided to put in their biggest second string LB at DE. And that was Bob Matheson, who wore #53. Matheson kept jumping offside. They pulled him out of the game and asked what the problem was. He said that he had never lined up in a 3-point stance before. So, they told him to just stand up where the DE would normally be, and sent him back in. When they did this, the opposing offense got confused. They didn't know if Matheson was going to rush the QB or drop back in coverage. Hence, the "53 Defense" was born.
 
dolfanmark said:
Throughout the 70's and most of the 80's, Shula used the 3-4. Many people would tell you that Bill Arnsparger (our D coordinator) invented the 3-4. Someone above described this as happening because Miami recognized the talents of Bob Matheson. That's not really true. There was a game where the Dolphins DEs kept getting hurt. It got to the point that there were no DE left to go into the game. So, Shula and Arnsparger decided to put in their biggest second string LB at DE. And that was Bob Matheson, who wore #53. Matheson kept jumping offside. They pulled him out of the game and asked what the problem was. He said that he had never lined up in a 3-point stance before. So, they told him to just stand up where the DE would normally be, and sent him back in. When they did this, the opposing offense got confused. They didn't know if Matheson was going to rush the QB or drop back in coverage. Hence, the "53 Defense" was born.
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I had not heard that side of the story. No matter if chance, luck or design, it was a great think to have this defensive scheme. Also great to have Arnsparger n Matheson.
 
AirChambers84 said:
Wanny/Bates was Vanilla flavored 4-3.... quick question : When did jimmy sign wanny ?
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Wikipedia says...

Wikipedia said:
In 1999, Wannstedt again joined Jimmy Johnson's staff, this time as defensive coordinator and assistant head coach of the Miami Dolphins. When the 56 year old Johnson suddenly announced his retirement on January 16, 2000, Wannstedt was the obvious choice to replace him and he was immediately named Johnson's successor.
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Dolphin defenses through the years.

In the early years a standard 4-3 was run. For a little bit in 1971, and from 1972-74 the Dolphins split time between a 4-3 and the "53" defense. The 4-3 would usually be used on 1st down, and after that tackle Bob Heinz woyld be replaced by Bob Matheson who wore #53. In the "53" defense it was a 3-3-1 setup with Manny Fernandes at nose guard, the regular linebackers in the normal 4-3 linebacker slots, and Matheson as a rover changing his lineup spot on every play.
In 1975 injuries to Fernandes and top defensive end Bill Stanphill forced the Dolphins to play the "53" defense full time. After the replacements for Fernandes and Stanphill(Randy Crowder and Don Reese) were fired for drug pushing convictions in 1976, the lack of lineman forced the Dolphins to go to a permanent 3-4. At times during the killer "B" days(1978-1983) the "53" was played with A J Duhe, wearing #77, playing the "53" roving linebacker role. The 3-4 was used through 1991.
In 1992 the drafting of Marco Coleman, combined with a lack of linebackers, caused the Dolphins to change to a 4-3 defense, that was run with zone coverages. In this defense at times outside line backers would blitz. The Dolphins also ran a 3-1-7 defense against run-and shoot-teams, which was surprisingly effective(due to some heroic efforts from Brian Cox) .
When Jimmy Johnson arrived he put his defense, the U of Miami one, which used a 4-3 with one huge tackle, one agile pass rushing tackle, a pair of smallish and quick ends, and smallish stay-at-home coverage linebackers, who rarely blitzed. Also the coverage changed with the corners playing man-to-man single coverage, with the safeties playing deep. This defense rarely changed during a game(the opposit of the "53" where the "53" and the secondary would change spots every play. This defense was run the full nine years of JJ and Wanny's time.
Nick Saban brought in a complicated coverage scheme. As for the lineup in 2005 he used a 4-man line most of the time with a nose man, a pass-rushing tackle, and two ends. More or less two inside linebackers were used with one outside linebacker, and some blitzing happening. In 2006 Jason Taylor became sort of the "53" rover by switching lining up spots on the line and being in a linebacker spot 25% of the time. The linebackers blitzed a lot more(but mostly unsuccessfully). The safeties had most of the deep coverage, but did not perform properly.
 
PhinCanuck said:
I have a question about the Fins' defense. Before Saban came, we ran a 4-3 defensive scheme, right? Was it a 4-3, or a version of the 46 defense popularized by Buddy Ryan in Chicago?
I know when Shula was in Miami we used a lot of the 4-3, and the Nickel scheme (Shula and Arnsparger popularized the latter). But the Nickel defense is more like a 3-3-5 defense, is not it? The 4-3 continued with Jimmy Johnson who was known for building the defense around a strong defensive line.
I am just not sure what Wannstead's defensive philosophy was. I think it might have been very similar to Johnson's, since he played and worked with him. I just wonder if Bates spiced it up a bit, or it remained pretty much the same.
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You can have a nickel defense where the nickel back comes in and takes the place of a linebacker using 2 LB's instead of 3 or taking the place of a D-lineman
 
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