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Reality Check For Henne Koolaid Guzzlers

Vaark

They call me Speedo but my real name is Mr Earl
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The kid looks impressive so far, sounds good, and has outperformed his 2 rivals. No question about THAT. But to quote Alan Iverson "It's practice, it's da*mn practice" and that's all it is. Should we be encouraged? Yes. Should we annoint Henne the heir apparent on the basis of a few weeks of practice? Errr, not so fast.

While Beck's being dissected like a jackal feeding on carrion, by comparison there are some who are anxious to label Henne "Marino-like." Maybe he'll end up that way or maybe he'll end up like Ryan Leaf who actually had a superior rookie TC and actually won the first 2 games before his head overcame his physical skills. Could this be the same with Henne? Maybe but who's to say, other than there are red flags that no amount of slavish fan worship can candycoat:

1) Rarely won the big one: 1-3 in bowl games and 0-4 against OSU, in probably the games that mattered most to his team.

2) Ability to rally his troops: interrelated with #1 and interesting because stat-wise he had few substandard games if we're gonna measure using that criterion. HOWEVER, his difficulty in coming back and overcoming deficits surely can't all be blamed on others. It boils down to the kind of Elway, Brady confidence that a QB instills in his teammates, especially in big games, creating a "yes I can" contagious leadership mindset

2a) Leadership Questions: Related is the fact that when you consider he was the de facto leader of his team for 4 years yet never was voted a co-captain by his peers, his teammates, speaks to questions about their perception of him as a leader and someone they trust and depend on. You can say that as their star QB, he already had the accolades and it was an opportunity to elect and recognize some unsung heroes.. but in reality Jake Long was voted Co-Captain twice, and was joined in the senior year by Hart and Crable. So we're talking stars here. IMO (which is a convention that should be used here alot more than it is), being slighted for 2 years running suggests a lack of respect. Who knows why, but there's no way the star QB, especially one who's a 4 year starter, shouldn't be so honored. Is something wrong here? Who knows? It's certainly doesn't represent a "stop sign" but more of a "Proceed with Caution" sign.

3) "Past UM QB History" Does history repeat itself or is Chad an anomoly? Certainly hope it's the latter. Sure you can point to Brady, but obviously he was a victim of stereotyping based on the perception of UM QB mediocrity, and essentially was the Kracker Jack prize that was unexpected, even by NE. Otherwise you have QBs who had fleeting moments of success before slipping into mediocrity, but outside of ancient-history Harbaugh, using the benefit of a time machine, the Grieses and Grbacs would have lasted well into the 3rd or 4th round or beyond. Will Chad be another product of a lacklustre QB developmental program or will he be the Brady type surprise? Who knows?

4)The Wisdom of Draft Experts vs. "Gurus" The gurus had him going anywhere from the low 20s to the low 30s. Why did he tumble as far as he did, potentially 35 spaces, especially when there were teams with QB questions and needs?? Chicago, where in an interview he believed he'd be going, scrutinized him in every which way and decided Kyle Orton was a better option. KC with all their early picks and a QB prospect with stats not much, if any better than Beck's ignored him several times. NC with disappointments like Carr and a QB already fading before injury, passed him by twice too. No Brady Quinn type excuses here. Green Bay, thinking the prima donna queen was retiring passed him by twice. Sure lots of mistakes are made and lots of hidden treasures are there for plucking, but on a consensus basis, the wisdom of the actual draft executives, not the gurus, get it right a lot more often than wrong. I'm not saying they got it right here and hope our FO is smarter than the perception curve, but you know that old saying "A thousand Frenchmen can't be wrong".....

5. Progressions and Checkdowns: Anything on youtube is selective and limited. Sure I've seen the funny OSU video where he looked more lost than Hansel and Gretel, but I've also seen plenty of selective videos where Chad's looked great so who knows. But that criticism is out there by some analysts who do know, and I've already seen arguments on FH conceding that he's wooden in the pocket, locks onto primary receivers but he's very accurate and doesn't need to see the entire field. Who knows which is right.. but you can't close your eyes and ignore it. If the critics are wrong then , Fantastic! If they're right, we have a slow-thinking and reacting Daunte redux on our hands (without the original mobility) and should hope that beyond the transition years, we better put into place the pieces that counteract his shortcomings.

As a Finfan, I'm hoping for the best, and am definitely encouraged by what I see/hear so far in this very limited sampling and through this somewhat biased blogger feedback. I'm certainly pulling for him to fulfill this empty hype being slobbered on him over time in real game conditions...but am in no way at this point ready to bet the farm on him. Parcells is not always right, including trading for Henson, starting QCarter and only reluctantly inserting Simms after his preferred starter (I forget his name) stunk up the place, among others examples.

If Henne works out great, and it's good that he gets to sit a year unless Mr Fragility takes one too many hits. (whom no matter what I think of his present skill set, happens to be a Rhodes Scholar and a good guy). but if we end up in or near the cellar again, and if, the consensus real deal, Matthew Stafford replicates his last season confirming it's not a fluke, IMO, we'd be foolish to pass him by if having the chance to grab him. If Henne works out, great! Regardless, guzzling from his Koolaid pitcher at this point is no different than the SD fans being excited about Ryan Leaf as their next leader.

OT:Thanks Bernie Mac, I'll miss ya
:rip:
 
I take Henne's record in bowl games and games against OSU with a grain of salt. Why is it ok to blame those games on him, but when talking about why Marino never won a superbowl, its the teams fault?
 
Vaark you have some very good points and you're right that everything is speculation right now. I'm encouraged with what I'm seeing right now. I do have to take issue with your first point. It's not Henne that's 1-3 in bowl games and 0-4 vs OSU. It's the team. I don't believe in placing baseball like stats on a QB with wins and losses. Football is to much of a team sport to do that. It's a GMs job to look for treasure. I like what Ireland said about Henne when he drafted him. Ireland said, "Henne has 9 4th quarter come from behind wins. That's more than any QB is this draft." It dosen't matter to me who starts as long as we win. I don't know if it will be Henne or Beck, but I enough confidence in our FO to believe that one of these two will be the future. Overall though, that's an outstanding post.
 
if i remeber correctly, everyone was saying that Manning can't win the big game when he came out of Tennessee and look how that turned out. i'm not saying Henne will take the same path, but to make quick assumptions isn't necessarily a good way to measure his capabilites either
 
if i remeber correctly, everyone was saying that Manning can't win the big game when he came out of Tennessee and look how that turned out. i'm not saying Henne will take the same path, but to make quick assumptions isn't necessarily a good way to measure his capabilites either

Yep, Peyton's biggest knock was that he could never beat Florida. It didn't affect him much, did it? Anyways, I'm just looking forward too seeing what both Henne and Beck look like on the field tonight. It should be fun.
 
Yep, Peyton's biggest knock was that he could never beat Florida. It didn't affect him much, did it? Anyways, I'm just looking forward too seeing what both Henne and Beck look like on the field tonight. It should be fun.

you can argue it took Manning a while to get past the Patriots, but he did eventually.
 
I think the other part of this equation is that people are not considering the issue of Progress.

Everyone was in love with Henne and seeing what they wanted to see in regards to how well he was doing. The interesting thing is that after an initial boost, there was no comments of continuing progress. He seemed to just be at a certain level over the last 7 days of practice. Not better. In fact the final few practices he seemed to regress a bit (with the ones, more pressure and not as sexy as when he was going up against the 2s and 3s). McCown seemed to be going in reverse since the middle of the first week of practice. Beck however started poorly, but seemed to continue to progress from his low point. Each practice even when glossed over by the Blogo heads, still illustrated clear continual progress. This was also importantly with the ones, against the ones. He was also the only QB to take the 3s down the field and score on the 2s. No other QB was able to do that in practice.

Allot of this gets ignored, or worse twisted into something it isn't by those whose egos get in the way.

The reality is we do not know now well Beck or Henne will do. If the ESPN inside info is correct, we will get an idea during todays match.

It will be interesting to see if Beck can continue to progress in a similar manner that he did in College. He looked raw and out of synch as a freshman and picked up a bit his sophomore year. By his junior year he became a surgeon cutting up opposing defenses with amazing needle point accuracy. Some of his throws were sick, and according to camp reports he has shown flashes of that at times, splitting defenders. Henne has shown maturity, ability to handle pressure at the lower levels. His abilities to see the field, breakdown the play and identify the best option remain to be seen. Beck's ability to settle the game down (not get flustered like last year) also remain to be seen.

So much is still in question, yet so many have already given us their "EXPERT" two cents of just how it is based off of very little real information. The coaches are going to play this out and in the end we will see what their plan is, prior to that it is mostly a bunch of "I wish this is true" chest beating. I guess if we were all a bunch of monkeys in a cage, the chest beating would actually serve a purpose, but other than that why not sit back and enjoy the preseason in hopes that the Dolphins will actually reach .500. Honestly, does it really matter who is standing behind center as long as the Dolphins are improving as a team?

If Beck gets benched I am okay with that. Disappointed, but I am okay because I know that the coaches are doing their best to put the best players on the field and if John is not the best guy he does not deserve to be on the field.
 
The kid looks impressive so far, sounds good, and has outperformed his 2 rivals. No question about THAT. But to quote Alan Iverson "It's practice, it's da*mn practice" and that's all it is. Should we be encouraged? Yes. Should we annoint Henne the heir apparent on the basis of a few weeks of practice? Errr, not so fast.

While Beck's being dissected like a jackal feeding on carrion, by comparison there are some who are anxious to label Henne "Marino-like." Maybe he'll end up that way or maybe he'll end up like Ryan Leaf who actually had a superior rookie TC and actually won the first 2 games before his head overcame his physical skills. Could this be the same with Henne? Maybe but who's to say, other than there are red flags that no amount of slavish fan worship can candycoat:

1) Rarely won the big one: 1-3 in bowl games and 0-4 against OSU, in probably the games that mattered most to his team.

2) Ability to rally his troops: interrelated with #1 and interesting because stat-wise he had few substandard games if we're gonna measure using that criterion. HOWEVER, his difficulty in coming back and overcoming deficits surely can't all be blamed on others. It boils down to the kind of Elway, Brady confidence that a QB instills in his teammates, especially in big games, creating a "yes I can" contagious leadership mindset

2a) Leadership Questions: Related is the fact that when you consider he was the de facto leader of his team for 4 years yet never was voted a co-captain by his peers, his teammates, speaks to questions about their perception of him as a leader and someone they trust and depend on. You can say that as their star QB, he already had the accolades and it was an opportunity to elect and recognize some unsung heroes.. but in reality Jake Long was voted Co-Captain twice, and was joined in the senior year by Hart and Crable. So we're talking stars here. IMO (which is a convention that should be used here alot more than it is), being slighted for 2 years running suggests a lack of respect. Who knows why, but there's no way the star QB, especially one who's a 4 year starter, shouldn't be so honored. Is something wrong here? Who knows? It's certainly doesn't represent a "stop sign" but more of a "Proceed with Caution" sign.

3) "Past UM QB History" Does history repeat itself or is Chad an anomoly? Certainly hope it's the latter. Sure you can point to Brady, but obviously he was a victim of stereotyping based on the perception of UM QB mediocrity, and essentially was the Kracker Jack prize that was unexpected, even by NE. Otherwise you have QBs who had fleeting moments of success before slipping into mediocrity, but outside of ancient-history Harbaugh, using the benefit of a time machine, the Grieses and Grbacs would have lasted well into the 3rd or 4th round or beyond. Will Chad be another product of a lacklustre QB developmental program or will he be the Brady type surprise? Who knows?

4)The Wisdom of Draft Experts vs. "Gurus" The gurus had him going anywhere from the low 20s to the low 30s. Why did he tumble as far as he did, potentially 35 spaces, especially when there were teams with QB questions and needs?? Chicago, where in an interview he believed he'd be going, scrutinized him in every which way and decided Kyle Orton was a better option. KC with all their early picks and a QB prospect with stats not much, if any better than Beck's ignored him several times. NC with disappointments like Carr and a QB already fading before injury, passed him by twice too. No Brady Quinn type excuses here. Green Bay, thinking the prima donna queen was retiring passed him by twice. Sure lots of mistakes are made and lots of hidden treasures are there for plucking, but on a consensus basis, the wisdom of the actual draft executives, not the gurus, get it right a lot more often than wrong. I'm not saying they got it right here and hope our FO is smarter than the perception curve, but you know that old saying "A thousand Frenchmen can't be wrong".....

5. Progressions and Checkdowns: Anything on youtube is selective and limited. Sure I've seen the funny OSU video where he looked more lost than Hansel and Gretel, but I've also seen plenty of selective videos where Chad's looked great so who knows. But that criticism is out there by some analysts who do know, and I've already seen arguments on FH conceding that he's wooden in the pocket, locks onto primary receivers but he's very accurate and doesn't need to see the entire field. Who knows which is right.. but you can't close your eyes and ignore it. If the critics are wrong then , Fantastic! If they're right, we have a slow-thinking and reacting Daunte redux on our hands (without the original mobility) and should hope that beyond the transition years, we better put into place the pieces that counteract his shortcomings.

As a Finfan, I'm hoping for the best, and am definitely encouraged by what I see/hear so far in this very limited sampling and through this somewhat biased blogger feedback. I'm certainly pulling for him to fulfill this empty hype being slobbered on him over time in real game conditions...but am in no way at this point ready to bet the farm on him. Parcells is not always right, including trading for Henson, starting QCarter and only reluctantly inserting Simms after his preferred starter (I forget his name) stunk up the place, among others examples.

If Henne works out great, and it's good that he gets to sit a year unless Mr Fragility takes one too many hits. (whom no matter what I think of his present skill set, happens to be a Rhodes Scholar and a good guy). but if we end up in or near the cellar again, and if, the consensus real deal, Matthew Stafford replicates his last season confirming it's not a fluke, IMO, we'd be foolish to pass him by if having the chance to grab him. If Henne works out, great! Regardless, guzzling from his Koolaid pitcher at this point is no different than the SD fans being excited about Ryan Leaf as their next leader.

OT:Thanks Bernie Mac, I'll miss ya :rip:

oh god...why must you type in blue???

btw...Bernie Mac was one of my fav. comedians...RIP dude...still can't beileve he's gone...:boohoo:
 
Hmm i wonder how many Bowl games your magical quinn won.


You got me confused with another good looking guy. I am on record as breathing a sigh of relief when we didn't draft that overhyped QB and was pulling for Willis, eh? .. And now that you mention it, the "Chokability" factor was a major concern then as it is now.
 
I don't see why everyone has to divide into camps with the QB battles. All I care about is the Dolphins winning. I don't care if Osama Bin Laden is the Dolphins' QB, so long as we're winning games. If it's Pennington, McCown, Beck, or Henne, I really don't give a ****. Just win.
 
You got me confused with someone else. I am on record as breathing a sigh of relief when we didn't draft that overhyped QB and was pulling for Willis, eh? .. And now that you mention it, the "Chokability" factor was a major concern then as it is now.

Watching The Browns preseason game, I have to say that I am also glad Miami did not pick up Quinn. It was like watching a schizoid scene where he would make excellent throws and than he would make these terrible throws getting picked off once and it could have been twice more on some of his failed attempts. With the talent that Cleveland has on their roster there was no reason Quinn had for not getting into the end zone.
 
I don't see why everyone has to divide into camps with the QB battles. All I care about is the Dolphins winning. I don't care if Osama Bin Laden is the Dolphins' QB, so long as we're winning games. If it's Pennington, McCown, Beck, or Henne, I really don't give a ****. Just win.

seriously, it's a lot easier to cope with out QB sitiuation when you don't want a specific player to win the starting job. just let the best man play.
 
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