receivers and speed | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

receivers and speed

downfield

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hi new to the forum, i read through often and think this is a great place with lots of dedicated and cool fans. my favorite player of course is Marino, and I remember watching him come onto the field during the Monday Night game his rookie season. i was about 12 years old and it always seemed the Raiders kicked our butts back then, so I was pretty excited to see Marino step up. i remember that I couldn't sleep because I kept thinking how cool it was to have a quarterback who could throw, since Woodley sucked.

anyway, on to my post. i have noticed a lot of discussion about receivers and their 40 times. i did a search and couldn't find anything directly focused on the information I would like to chat about. which is, i don't think 40 times are the end all criteria for football players, but do understand that speed is important and the 40 time is one criteria we used to judge football player ability. after reading several posts it seems that most people agree here, 40 times tell you something but may also be misleading. so onto my point, which is that the 10 yard dash is probably a better indicator of the speed required by a football player. i also think the 3 cone drill is good for quickness and burst.

when i watched the espn draft show tonight all I heard was m. hoge talking trash about m. williams (USC receiver). anyway, he repeated how "slow" williams was and how he lacked "suddeness". so i looked up on the war room draft page and saw some interesting stuff on the top wide out's 40-20-10 yard dash times.

10 20 40yd times 3 cone drill (seconds)

M. williams 1.60 2.67 4.58 6.98
T. willamson 1.58 2.57 4.32 6.99
B. edwards NA NA 4.45 6.87

all of this confirmed by bias in the draft. while m. williams is only moderately fast by 40 yrd dash standards, hiw 10 yrd dash is essentially identical to t. williamson and you can see that williamson gains speed as he progresses. this also tends to reflect in what i have seen of williamson on tape. similar times with the 3 cone. this really refutes what meril was saying. to my suprise williams does have the speed and burst necessary, at least i believe, to make it in the nfl as a superstar.

williamson maybe good but not many guys run that wide open, full throttle all the time, and he has minimal experience with intermiate routes, because he most often ran deep. between edwards and williams i choose williams because he has the more consistent track record and really does offer massive matchup problems. there is not any cornerback big enough to guard him in the red zone and he does have enough quickness and "mojo" to get open regulargly. similarly, his average yd. per catch was around 14 yrds per catch for two years, which is about 10 yrds of course.

anyway, i don't want to come across as some know it all because i don't and i don't know if we should pick him with the #2. i woudl rather trade down but i just wanted to provide some cool info that suggests williams might not be fully understood.

take care and go fins
downfield
 
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phinpunk14

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you have to realize that when you are looking at a ten yard dash, very small differences in numbers can be much larger than they appear. In ten yards, you barely even start before it is over so even a few hundredths of a second is more telling than one might think.
 

PhinsPhan

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welcome.

I like the idea. I never knew Williams had that quick of a cone drill. Well cone drill basically measures agility and change of direction ability so you could argue that it is more important than a 40.

Merrill Hodge is an idiot. Plus there are alot of people here that would way rather Williams over Edwards because they know a 40 isnt everything.

Just ask Chris Carter, Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, on and on and on.
 

thecoordinator

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i think mike williams is the most complete player in the draft. as ive gotten to know these kids better through interviews ive seen, it seems like alex smith and braylon edwards are so full of themselves i wouldnt pick either of them.
 

downfield

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thanks for the welcome.

sorry for the numbers and their alignment, i tried to fix it but couldn't figure it out.

it is a good point that even a hundreth of a second is a relatively large amount of time between 10yrd dashes, but still they are darn close.

i like a. smith for potential and the future, but i think williams is really an interesting prospect and will be so difficult for cornerbacks to cover.

downfield
 

afishfan

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PhinsPhan said:
welcome.

I like the idea. I never knew Williams had that quick of a cone drill. Well cone drill basically measures agility and change of direction ability so you could argue that it is more important than a 40.

Merrill Hodge is an idiot. Plus there are alot of people here that would way rather Williams over Edwards because they know a 40 isnt everything.

Just ask Chris Carter, Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, on and on and on.

I couldn't agree more. I'm sick of hearing about running back's 40 times especially!!! of all the greatest NFL running backs ever - who would even be considered fast?

Marcus Allen - no
Emmitt Smith - no
Walter Payton - no
Earl Campbell - no
Jerome Bettis - no
Curtis Martin - no
Barry Sanders - yes
Marshall Faulk - yes
Franco Harris - no
Eric Dickerson - maybe
John Riggins - no
Eddie George - no
Ottis Anderson - no
Terrell Davis - no

The point is the vast majority of the 20 greatest rushers in NFL history were not even fast. They had other qualities which made them great. In most cases vision/ ability to setup and read blocking. I find it humorous that I keep hearing how great Ronnie Brown is - but the ONLY thing anybody ever says about him is how fast he is. He may very well turn out to be a great back. But it seems that he doesn't have the awareness and vision of Williams or Benson. Benson has the greatest body of work of any of the backs and stayed healthy. If 40 times are so important, why did Clarett average more yards per carry than any of the top 3 did for their careers - behind a poor run blocking line?
 

downfield

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a fish fan:

good examples.

I think this is important since we are considering a receiver at #2. I just think people lend 40 times too much weight and give too little weight to great college production, which M. williams had.
 
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