Reflections after a good night's sleep

[dolphone]

Couple questions:

What was Careys injury? I haven't checked so is it even possible to move him back to RT?

Not you Dolphone, but are people really referring to the excellent defensive play Hayden made on that ball in the endzone a drop on Marshall? Catching a tipped pass like that has nothing todo with skill it would be blind *** luck! I don't want to hear poor route running either! Marshall had a step, it was a good throw, it was just a good football play made by one of the best up an coming CBs in the league!

There is a glaring difference in our offense inside the twenty! It is a hangover from years past and that finger points at Sparano. Henne's play changes inside the redzone. Don't know if it is him or coaching, but it is different. Our redzone play calling sucks, new OC same product leads me to believe our ultra conservative HC has his hands in the cookie jar!

The final INT stunk! It was thrown to high, to hard, behind and forced into coverage! Very similar to the int he threw in OT 2 years ago against the coverage. At that point we had about 30 seconds and at least 1 timeout. That is the frustrating thing with Henne he needs to make that play! Not force it into triple coverage. But I will agree the play call to that point blew! Matter of fact our 2 minute offense has stunk since the Volts MNF in 09. New OC same problem!

Carey has a shoulder injury. He didn't come back IIRC, but he should be good to go soon enough.

I don't have the recording here right now, but I watched it twice yesterday and Haden didn't touch the ball. It went right through Marshall's hands.

About the INT, I'm not concerned about the miscue on 4th down. I'm more concerned about having three more chances beforehand and not doing anything with them - and that falls both on Henne and on Daboll. WTH was that pass to Gates on 2nd down??? If you feel you *must* take that chance, you do it on 1st.

 

[dolphone]

I agree and disagree. Henne is absolutely responsible for putting them in position to score. However he is limited in the redzone because he can't make the throws he needs too. It's not all on Henne, but he has his share of the blame. The guy can't throw a fade or a touch pass to save his life. They finally played to his strength and ran the slant/post with Marshall and Henne made a nice throw, but Haden made a better play and prevented the TD. The coaches are at fault, the receivers are at fault, the o line is at fault, and Henne is at fault. It's a complete team failure.

Sure. *That*, I definitely agree with.

But he's far from being a big problem in this team. He's putting them in successful positions, and missing figgies, fumbling and dropping passes don't help. If everyone else is so entitled to their mistakes (considering they don't get called out), why shouldn't Henne?

 

[flynryan15]

Carey has a shoulder injury. He didn't come back IIRC, but he should be good to go soon enough.

I don't have the recording here right now, but I watched it twice yesterday and Haden didn't touch the ball. It went right through Marshall's hands.

About the INT, I'm not concerned about the miscue on 4th down. I'm more concerned about having three more chances beforehand and not doing anything with them - and that falls both on Henne and on Daboll. WTH was that pass to Gates on 2nd down??? If you feel you *must* take that chance, you do it on 1st.

I haven't watched since yesterday but Hayden had had his hand between Marshalls the announcers called it tipped on the post game they called it tipped and after that I got drunk and I will take their side for it. Everyone has blame in the redzone, but out of 8 trips though 3 games we netted 4 fgs and the QB has to shoulder some blame. Henne throws a terrible ball in the redzone because he never puts touch on it. The over shoot to Hartline is a perfect example, WR never had a chance.

My stance is the majority of the blame for redzone miscues is on Sparano! In his tenure we have had 3 QBs, and 2 OCs yet the play selection sucks! The next is execution is that falls PK the shoulders of all eleven guys on the field!

If Carey has a shoulder injury I agree with Hoops shelve him and give Garner a go. The only player a shoulder injury is no big deal to is the kicker!

Still doesn't solve how terrible Incogfatslownito is!

 

[dolpns13]

No, nobody's perfect. Im not looking for the perfect player. But alot of people are better at coaching than Sparano and better at QB than Henne.. and better at GM than Ireland. Thats what I root for. Its not a pipe dream that we 100% can make upgrades at coach, QB, and GM next year - not a pipe dream at all.

I mentioned everyone is free to root how they see fit. Me, personally, I can't root against them, and I don't see how I could. But that's just me.

The "pipe dream" isn't about the w/l record, but about a supposedly perfect player or coach. Nobody's perfect, there aren't any guarantees. Luck could turn out a bust, he could get injured in his first snap or practice. <Fill coach name here> can turn out a worse record for a longer time.

About Schotty, I meant Marty. Brian does nothing for me, his offense is predictable and not that good IMO.

 

[dolphone]

No, nobody's perfect. Im not looking for the perfect player. But alot of people are better at coaching than Sparano and better at QB than Henne.. and better at GM than Ireland. Thats what I root for. Its not a pipe dream that we 100% can make upgrades at coach, QB, and GM next year - not a pipe dream at all.

It's hard to judge the performance of one of the pieces you mention if the others falter.

Tell me, how good was Favre during the Mike Sherman years? Talk was that Favre was done.

Belichick didn't do squat until he had Pioli and Brady. For that matter, Parcells didn't do squat after he and Belichick parted.

How successful was Drew Brees for his first three seasons? His third was much lousier than his second, as well...

Rick Spielman seems to be doing alright in Minny... Chan Gailey is currently leading the undefeated Bills...

And that's just performance. What about injuries? Again, we might pick Luck and he gets injured in his first game. There's simply no guarantee.

To me, that's enough doubt to forgo rooting against the team. Better root FOR them, and let the chips fall where they may...

But once again, that's just me.

 

[finfan54]

This is the irrational criticism I mentioned.

Henne played a fantastic game. His INT, lest you forget, was at the end in a desperation play.

Look at the routes ran by the receivers in the last 4 plays. Look at what other playcalls would've been better - where was Bush for an outlet? The flat to Fasano? Hell, a freaking draw with Thomas would've been fantastic, we were KILLING them with it.

Henne gets blame, sure. But he wasn't the cause for the loss. And I'll be damn glad to have him QBing the way he has this season.

People complained of a thousand different things, and now that he has corrected most of them, you expect Marino. Nonsense.

I follow you on this completely however the one difference this year was that henne was seeing the defense now and was changing plays....ect. ect. then he goes to marshall again double covered after hartline and bess were making plays. I dont get why bush is not being used properly or even being split out wide or in motion.

other things that bother me in this offense. clay and gates invisible or not getting it done.

btw, was that not pass interference on the db pushing gates out of bounds before ball got there, or laying his hands on him? just thought that was weird. db's are allowed alot of hand grabbing these days. I knew that new rule was full of crap.

 

[dolphone]

I follow you on this completely however the one difference this year was that henne was seeing the defense now and was changing plays....ect. ect. then he goes to marshall again double covered after hartline and bess were making plays. I dont get why bush is not being used properly or even being split out wide or in motion.

other things that bother me in this offense. clay and gates invisible or not getting it done.

btw, was that not pass interference on the db pushing gates out of bounds before ball got there, or laying his hands on him? just thought that was weird. db's are allowed alot of hand grabbing these days. I knew that new rule was full of crap.

Never saw a replay that showed the entire route, so I can't tell.

You have to remember Clay and Gates are rookies. Perhaps they're not yet ready, although I would argue by now it's time to try them out.

 

[flynryan15]

Here is a freaking idea on the Marshall in route in the redzone we are debating. Why not drag the RB or TE into the flat? Marshall draws all the attention in the redzone we are talking Bush 1 v 1 on a lb!

 

[X-Pacolypse]

Stopped reading after "Henne played very well...."

 

[Sirspud]

This is the irrational criticism I mentioned.

Henne played a fantastic game. His INT, lest you forget, was at the end in a desperation play.

Look at the routes ran by the receivers in the last 4 plays. Look at what other playcalls would've been better - where was Bush for an outlet? The flat to Fasano? Hell, a freaking draw with Thomas would've been fantastic, we were KILLING them with it.

Henne gets blame, sure. But he wasn't the cause for the loss. And I'll be damn glad to have him QBing the way he has this season.

People complained of a thousand different things, and now that he has corrected most of them, you expect Marino. Nonsense.

With Henne QBing the way he has, I guess you'll be happy for an 0-16 season.

People aren't expecting Marino. All they are freaking hoping for is just a little glimpse of Jay Fielder or Chad Pennington. Don't you remember what it was like having a quarterback who when asked to make that game sealing or game tying drive knew exactly what they had to do and did? It didn't matter how many yards they had thrown for in the game. They could do with 150 passing yards what Chad Henne can't do with 400, which is score enough points to be in position to win the game at the end, and actually seal the deal when its there to be taken.

I remember when Brian Griese was QBing and he looked great against the Chargers. Then he lost against the Colts but it wasn't his fault, it was the left tackle's. The he sucked against the Titans but it was the line's fault again, right? But it got to the point where enough was enough. Jay Fiedler was inserted into the Washington game midway through and promptly scored two TD's. It was like night and day, even though it was the same offense, same players everything. Why was that? Brian Griese was a better passer throughout his career than Fiedler, but Jay was the better FOOTBALL PLAYER. Jay came in and inspired confidence from everyone around him. He made the players play better than they were, made them stretch to make and complete that great catch in crunch time, and made them hold their block for that quarter second longer because they knew that Jay was gonna find a way to get that crucial first down.

Chad Henne does none of this and like Brian Griese, he never will. It doesn't matter how pretty of a pass he throws. It doesn't matter how much he can rack up yardage. It doesn't matter if he might be one of the better looking players on what seems to be a lackadaisical team. He is the main reason why they aren't getting the points they should. Chad Henne isn't playing well in spite of the team, the team is what they are because they have a Qb that is 6-14 in his last 20 games, a QB who 9/10 times in his career when he is given the chance to make a game winning or game sealing drive, has utterly failed to do it.

 

[Sirspud]

I follow you on this completely however the one difference this year was that henne was seeing the defense now and was changing plays....ect. ect. then he goes to marshall again double covered after hartline and bess were making plays. I dont get why bush is not being used properly or even being split out wide or in motion.

other things that bother me in this offense. clay and gates invisible or not getting it done.

btw, was that not pass interference on the db pushing gates out of bounds before ball got there, or laying his hands on him? just thought that was weird. db's are allowed alot of hand grabbing these days. I knew that new rule was full of crap.

The DB didn't push Gates, his body was there and that meant that Gates in turn could not push him out of the way. The DB has every right to be where he is and have a shot at the ball. He knows that, and maybe Gates is inexperienced enough that he doesn't right know.

 

[dolpns13]

As of last year, DB's are ALLOWED to push the receiver out of bounds to force an incompletion.. I know, its a BS rule as is most of the rules in this flag football league.. Also, has Clay even played one play this year? I havent noticed if he has.

I follow you on this completely however the one difference this year was that henne was seeing the defense now and was changing plays....ect. ect. then he goes to marshall again double covered after hartline and bess were making plays. I dont get why bush is not being used properly or even being split out wide or in motion.

other things that bother me in this offense. clay and gates invisible or not getting it done.

btw, was that not pass interference on the db pushing gates out of bounds before ball got there, or laying his hands on him? just thought that was weird. db's are allowed alot of hand grabbing these days. I knew that new rule was full of crap.

 

[endorPHINS72]

since when does a fantastic game mean scoring 16 points?

Listen, i was willing to give henne a chance this season, and he has improved, but not enough to warrant him getting a new contract at the end of the season. He simply doesn't win games. He folds at critical moments. He is great between the 20s, then shuts down like a penis in the proximity of rosie o'donnell...

lmao!!!

 

[dolphone]

With Henne QBing the way he has, I guess you'll be happy for an 0-16 season.

People aren't expecting Marino. All they are freaking hoping for is just a little glimpse of Jay Fielder or Chad Pennington. Don't you remember what it was like having a quarterback who when asked to make that game sealing or game tying drive knew exactly what they had to do and did? It didn't matter how many yards they had thrown for in the game. They could do with 150 passing yards what Chad Henne can't do with 400, which is score enough points to be in position to win the game at the end, and actually seal the deal when its there to be taken.

I remember when Brian Griese was QBing and he looked great against the Chargers. Then he lost against the Colts but it wasn't his fault, it was the left tackle's. The he sucked against the Titans but it was the line's fault again, right? But it got to the point where enough was enough. Jay Fiedler was inserted into the Washington game midway through and promptly scored two TD's. It was like night and day, even though it was the same offense, same players everything. Why was that? Brian Griese was a better passer throughout his career than Fiedler, but Jay was the better FOOTBALL PLAYER. Jay came in and inspired confidence from everyone around him. He made the players play better than they were, made them stretch to make and complete that great catch in crunch time, and made them hold their block for that quarter second longer because they knew that Jay was gonna find a way to get that crucial first down.

Chad Henne does none of this and like Brian Griese, he never will. It doesn't matter how pretty of a pass he throws. It doesn't matter how much he can rack up yardage. It doesn't matter if he might be one of the better looking players on what seems to be a lackadaisical team. He is the main reason why they aren't getting the points they should. Chad Henne isn't playing well in spite of the team, the team is what they are because they have a Qb that is 6-14 in his last 20 games, a QB who 9/10 times in his career when he is given the chance to make a game winning or game sealing drive, has utterly failed to do it.

Remind me again how is Henne to blame for Carpenter missing easy field goals, running backs fumbling, getting hit releasing his pass under 3 seconds, and receivers dropping his passes?

You can hem and haw about how he just doesn't make "game sealing type drive"s. I remember he looked awesome against the Jets in MNF, nobody complaining there. But even though his teammates let him down, he's to blame, right? He's the QB...

Yet I find hilarious that you clamor for Fiedler or Pennington. When they played everyone clamored for a stronger-armed QB, one that could "make all the throws". Now that we have such a guy the thing is he doesn't have "it".

Unbelievable people equate Henne with an 0-16 season, it's all or nothing with you people. Just remember, be careful what you want. People clamored for Orton, Cassel, Culpepper... grass is always greener...

 

[Travis34]

Good point about Jerry. I thought he looked good enough to warrant Carey back to tackle