Report: Dolphins players may have harassed team staffer

[Bumpus]

Meh - Couldn't possibly care less.

Y'all should hear some of the comments in the teacher's lounge ...

 

[truedolfan57]

First, Jeff Dunham is an entertainer and what you described is what people are paying to see. No one is paying to see the crap that goes on in a locker room. Second, I'm not giving anyone a pass, I reference Incognito because he's the guy with the history. In every stop of his football career, he's caused trouble.

As to the "they were just joking with each other" defense, it's not at all unusual for the victims of bullies to go along with their antagonist in order to lessen the aggression pointed their way. Now we have no idea if that's the case here, the NFL will make that determination, but given the track records of both guys, the good money is on Incognito being the instigator as he has been in other places. If the report shows otherwise, I have no issue with that. As I've said before, I didn't want either guy on the team before this happened; I don't want either on the team after.

Finally, you responded to my post but made no attempt at answering the question I posed, which was: why would the NFL suffer a demise if there were minimum standards of locker room conduct to which players had to adhere?

i'm paying for merchandise and game tickets to see miami win on the field. i don't really care what is done or said in the locker room, or on peoples cell phones. as for your question, I don't really think the nfl would suffer if they used more professionalism in the locker room. I just don't think the professionalism will last long, unless you have someone watching them at all times, and reprimanding them every time a profanity is used. These people are barely adults when entering the league. Some adults still act like teenagers in all aspects of their respective jobs. having a bunch of guys, playing a game for lots of money, is a different atmosphere, where there will be a lot of horseplaying and mouths moving. it's what guys do in that environment. Something else they should do, is try to de-escalate the situation in house, before doing what martin did. but yeah, if they could somehow maintain professionalism in the locker room, i don't think it would hinder the game at all. they all should be playing to win, and earn their paychecks no matter what.

 

[flynryan15]

1. Jon Martin's own attorney has admitted that he never told anyone. He uses the reasoning that Martin was bullied and was 'trying to befriend' the bullies. So yes, it is okay to make that assumption, because Jon Martin's lawyer has confirmed it.

2. The team didn't 'cover up' an assault. The victim went to the police, and filed a report. The team reported the incident to the league and took some sort of disciplinary action (we don't know what yet). The team or Richie (we don't know which) reached a settlement with the victim and they signed the standard confidentiality agreement about it. You can say that confidentiality agreements concerning criminal matters are unethical, and I would agree with you, but it's nothing uncommon or out of the ordinary in America.

3. Jeff Ireland never actually said Martin should have punched Richie. When he was informed of the situation after the fact he asked why Martin didn't handle the situation in another way. Jeff Ireland is still an idiot, but let's at least be fair to him. The originally reported story that Jeff Ireland told Jon Martin to punch Richie has already been taken back and revised by Mike Florio's original source who reported it.

I feel like Nubs, but the facts are the facts. Of course, none of these things should have ever happened, because Richie Incognito is clearly not the kind of idiot who should have been given that second chance. I pity whichever team is foolish enough to take him on after we cut him. But if we want to look at things objectively, let's look at things objectively rather than through the emotional prism of the way this story was originally reported -- a story that has changed quite a bit since it's been public.

I did step back and look at this objectively, which is why I changed my stance from 'fire everyone now' to my 'evaluate them based on job performance and fire them for that at the end of the season' line.

You are claiming things as fact that simply aren't Martins agents says he made Ireland aware if the issue prior to Martin leaving the team. Only Ireland and the dolphins claim that to be not true. Guess you can take that as fact.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24196378/report-dolphins-gm-jeff-ireland-suggested-martin-punch-incognito

I can find no statement by martins attorney that backs up your FACTS that even his attorney says Martin didn't Goto the team. Can you please provide one?

As far as the sexual battery incident yeah they reported it to the league only after they leaned on the victim using the confidentiality agreement she signed to volunteer at the event. Not as part of a settlement.

Yeah you are coming off as Nublar I think he hacked your account!

 

[Geforce]

You are claiming things as fact that simply aren't Martins agents says he made Ireland aware if the issue prior to Martin leaving the team. Only Ireland and the dolphins claim that to be not true. Guess you can take that as fact.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-o...jeff-ireland-suggested-martin-punch-incognito

I can find no statement by martins attorney that backs up your FACTS that even his attorney says Martin didn't Goto the team. Can you please provide one?

As far as the sexual battery incident yeah they reported it to the league only after they leaned on the victim using the confidentiality agreement she signed to volunteer at the event. Not as part of a settlement.

Yeah you are coming off as Nublar I think he hacked your account!

CBS Sports and many other news organizations ran with the story that was first published by Mike Florio at Pro Football Talk on November 6th.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ed-that-martin-confront-incognito-physically/

Florio later updated his article the next day but few if any of those same news organizations that was quick to run this story updated their report.

UPDATE 11:04 a.m. ET 11/7/13: A prior version of this story identified the agent as Rick Smith. It was Kenny Zuckerman, who works with Smith at the same firm. Also, a prior version of this story characterized the call as happening before Martin left the team. The call happened after Martin left.

 

[JTC111]

My point is simple. EEOC Law dictates that the harasser's conduct must be unwelcome. If we are not careful, in a necessarily violent and intimidating sport such as football, there are many avenues for people to claim unwelcomed conduct. The slippery slope is a fact of life and we've seen this in many instances in the NFL and in society in general.

What you're completing omitting is the possibility that what Incognito was doing crossed some lines that most other people engaging in similar behaviors are aware of and avoid crossing. The EEOC describes offensive conduct thusly, "Offensive conduct may include, but is not limited to, offensive jokes, slurs, epithets or name calling, physical assaults or threats, intimidation, ridicule or mockery, insults or put-downs, offensive objects or pictures, and interference with work performance." And while the EEOC law does say the conduct must be unwelcome, it also says that "the conduct must create a work environment that would be intimidating, hostile, or offensive to reasonable people." That last part is what may really sink Incognito and the Dolphins in the end. Would "reasonable people" find Incognito's actions offensive. If you limit those people to only football players, perhaps not. However, the law states nowhere that the pool of "reasonable people" should be limited. So this may very well come down to how that is interpreted.

You can pretend it doesn't happen all you want, but that doesn't change the reality.

I'm not sure what you're saying I'm pretending doesn't happen. My point was to counter your statement that we'll see the demise of football if we don't allow behaviors as extreme as that in which Incognito was engaging. I'm saying that football will not only survive, but will even continue to thrive, if the league puts minimum standards of locker room behavior in place. MINIMUM standards... notice that word in caps. It's the same word I used in my previous post. I'm not saying turn the locker room into a church, but some of what goes on can be reined in a bit, and things like shaking down rookies for money should be eliminated.

Claiming I'm for this or that, doesn't detract from the fact that once the genie is out of the bottle and if players develop victim mentalities rather than that of warriors, and their agents/mommies/lawyers begin nit-picking NFL behavior in the work place, the NFL is in big, big trouble.

Here you've set up a black/white scenario ...we have to have A or we'll have B. Life isn't black and white all the time and neither is this issue. The league isn't going to install rules that detract from the game itself. You used the word "warriors." These guys aren't warriors. Football is a business before it's anything else. Players are commodities, not warriors. The goal of the NFL is a simple one: make money. That's the league's primary interest, the owners are primary interest, and the players' primary interest. Everything else is a very distant second place.

What Martin has done is not going to result in players developing "victim mentalities." Whatever rules the NFL puts in place, the players will adjust to them just like they've adjusted to every rule change the NFL has ever made. Why? Because they want to get another paycheck.

You have to keep in mind that the NFL work place extends beyond the locker room to the practices and the games and there are many, many people in this country that view football as a outdated, brutish, overly violent scourge on society that teaches children the wrong lessons in life. This is not arguable.

This has nothing to do with what we're discussing. There are going to be two sides to just about anything, football related or not. In a country of 300+ million people you're not going to find many issues where opinions aren't divided. So the fact that some people don't like football is irrelevant. Some people don't like reading but we're not going to ban books.

Until now, this Martin fueled moment, the NFL has been relatively immune from outside influences regarding it's outside the norm traditions and practices.

Well that's the whole point of the investigation, isn't it? To determine if what was going on was outside of the norm. You and I have very limited information on that.

Their biggest outside pressure has been safety and profit sharing related. But thanks to mommy Martin, this has changed

People keep bringing up his mother. I've yet to see anything that confirms she's had any kind of extensive involvement or even anything confirming she encouraged her son to pursue this claim.

... and as with all self assigned changers of societal blights, this is just the beginning.

Not sure who or what you're referring to here. Care to shed a bit of light on it?

As for the golf incident. That is a separate matter completely. There is, in my most humble opinion a massive difference between the behavior in private between team mates and their professional public behavior. Had the victim been willing, Cogs should have been charged. Frankly, Cogs should have been dismissed from the team by Philbin/Ireland/Ross.

I agree in that the team made a mistake keeping him past that point. However, the incident is useful in that it adds to a pattern of behavior. There are many reasons a person might settle a case like that out of court. The most obvious being that the victim was unemployed and a monetary settlement might have been more advantageous to her than pressing a case in court. That doesn't make the victim any less of a victim. Justice comes in many forms.

 

[NCFINFAN13]

What you're completing omitting is the possibility that what Incognito was doing crossed some lines that most other people engaging in similar behaviors are aware of and avoid crossing. The EEOC describes offensive conduct thusly, "Offensive conduct may include, but is not limited to, offensive jokes, slurs, epithets or name calling, physical assaults or threats, intimidation, ridicule or mockery, insults or put-downs, offensive objects or pictures, and interference with work performance." And while the EEOC law does say the conduct must be unwelcome, it also says that "the conduct must create a work environment that would be intimidating, hostile, or offensive to reasonable people." That last part is what may really sink Incognito and the Dolphins in the end. Would "reasonable people" find Incognito's actions offensive. If you limit those people to only football players, perhaps not. However, the law states nowhere that the pool of "reasonable people" should be limited. So this may very well come down to how that is interpreted.


I'm not sure what you're saying I'm pretending doesn't happen. My point was to counter your statement that we'll see the demise of football if we don't allow behaviors as extreme as that in which Incognito was engaging. I'm saying that football will not only survive, but will even continue to thrive, if the league puts minimum standards of locker room behavior in place. MINIMUM standards... notice that word in caps. It's the same word I used in my previous post. I'm not saying turn the locker room into a church, but some of what goes on can be reined in a bit, and things like shaking down rookies for money should be eliminated.




Here you've set up a black/white scenario ...we have to have A or we'll have B. Life isn't black and white all the time and neither is this issue. The league isn't going to instill rules that detract from the game itself. You used the word "warriors." These guys aren't warriors. Football is a business before it's anything else. Players are commodities, not warriors. The goal of the NFL is a simple one: make money. That's the league's primary interest, the owners are primary interest, and the players' primary interest. Everything else is a very distant second place.

What Martin has done is not going to result in players developing "victim mentalities." Whatever rules the NFL puts in place, the players will adjust to them just like they've adjusted to every rule change the NFL has ever made. Why? Because they want to get another paycheck.



This has nothing to do with what we're discussing. There are going to be two sides to just about anything, football related or not. In a country of 300+ million people you're not going to find many issues where opinions aren't divided. So the fact that some people don't like football is irrelevant. Some people don't like reading but we're not going to ban books.



Well that's the whole point of the investigation, isn't it? To determine if what was going on was outside of the norm. You and I have very limited information on that.



People keep bringing up his mother. I've yet to see anything that confirms she's had any kind of extensive involvement or even anything confirming she encouraged her son to pursue this claim.



Not sure who or what you're referring to here. Care to shed a bit of light on it?



I agree in that the team made a mistake keeping him past that point. However, the incident is useful in that it adds to a pattern of behavior. There are many reasons a person might settle a case like that out of court. The most obvious being that the victim was unemployed and a monetary settlement might have been more advantageous to her than pressing a case in court. That doesn't make the victim any less of a victim. Justice comes in many forms.

I'm actually glad I made you type all that out because, I'm done talking about this crap. I honestly don't care about it so I'm not going to continue this nonsense.

 

[retarmyfinfan]

If people are not offended from what is being said, how is it an issue? If someone states that the joke is not welcomed, then the behavior needs to stop.

BTW, you just used a swear word in your comment...would you fired for using that word at work?

---------- Post added at 11:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 AM ----------



BTW, I am offended by the "ghetto" comment. What is that supposed to mean?

Yes if no none objects it's not an "issue", but still illegal. But in this case people have objected and now it can become a legal issue.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

I can find no statement by martins attorney that backs up your FACTS that even his attorney says Martin didn't Goto the team. Can you please provide one?

After the Dolphins repeatedly said that Martin never approached them with a ccomplaint about Incognito, Martin's attorney responded by releasing a statement that said "Martin tried to befriend them, as bullied people often do."

So yeah, I take that 100% as an admission that Martin didn't go to the team about Richie. Considering how quickly they kept releasing crap to try to swing public favor back to them, don't you think they would have called out BS when the team repeatedly and adamantly stated that they had no idea that Martin had a complaint against Richie before he left the team? Come on.

 

[slk018]

Breaking news: Dplphins player may have cussed at a guy in traffic!!
Breaking news: Dolphins player may have eaten samoa girl scout cookies around Paul Soliai in attempt to rip on his heritage
Breaking news: Dolphins player may have called teammate a wimp during a game of Madden online!
Breaking news: Dolphins player did not help teammate off the ground during a scrimmage

 

[mrbunglez]

I'm numb to this whole ordeal now, so none of this crap shocks me anymore. It's gunna drag too long.
Just want it to end, don't care about either of those morons.

 

[Namor]

Breaking news: Dplphins player may have cussed at a guy in traffic!!
Breaking news: Dolphins player may have eaten samoa girl scout cookies around Paul Soliai in attempt to rip on his heritage
Breaking news: Dolphins player may have called teammate a wimp during a game of Madden online!
Breaking news: Dolphins player did not help teammate off the ground during a scrimmage

Breaking news: Dolphins haven't won enough games in the last 10 years to stop Namor from getting bullied by other teams' fans.