Rookie Stats of Hall of Fame QBs

[Mr. Magoo]

Beck/Henne: Rookie Stats of Hall of Fame QBs

Note: I put much of this in a post in a Henne/Beck thread, but I think it bears it's own thread.

John Elway's stats after his first 11 games.

47.5% completion percentage
7 TD
14 INT
28 Sacks
6 Fumbles
Rating: 54.9

Troy Aikman's stats in the eleven games he started as a rookie (btw, for exactly zero wins).

52.9% completion percentage
9 TD
18 INT
19 Sacks
6 Fumbles
Rating: 55.7

Steve Young's stats after starting 5 games his rookie year:

52.2% completion percentage
3 TD
8 INT
21 Sacks
4 Fumbles
Rating: 56.9

Dan Fouts' stats after 6 starts and 10 appearances:

44.8% completion percentage
6 TD
13 TD
14 Sacks
2 Fumbles
Rating: 46

And hey, last year's Trent Edwards:

56.1% completion percentage
7 TD
8 INT
12 Sacks
4 Fumbles
Rating: 70.4

And, of course, John Beck:

56.1% completion percentage
1 TD
3 INT
10 Sacks
7 Fumbles
Rating: 62

There are others, of course, who did better. Big Ben and our man Marino being notable exceptions. But consider that those two quarterbacks came in under decidedly better circumstances, with Big Ben coming into a strong running team good enough to win a Super Bowl, and Marino coming into a team that had gone to the Super Bowl the year before. Beck, of course, was drafted by what was eventually the worst team in the league. A team that needed a missed field goal and a miracle pass to win a SINGLE GAME.

The overall point being this: anyone who says that Beck is a definitive BUST and some kind of walking disease not only doesn't know what they're talking about, but is demonstrating the patience of a two-year old.

No one is saying Beck is a future Hall of Famer. But really, with the whole "bust" talk, please shut up.

 

[fgrocker]

Beck's sack to fumble ratio should be cause for major concern. Hopefully someone ducttaped a ball in his hand over the off-season...

 

[Coral Reefer]

Note: I put much of this in a post in a Henne/Beck thread, but I think it bears it's own thread.

John Elway's stats after his first 11 games.

47.5% completion percentage
7 TD
14 INT
28 Sacks
6 Fumbles
Rating: 54.9

Troy Aikman's stats in the eleven games he started as a rookie (btw, for exactly zero wins).

52.9% completion percentage
9 TD
18 INT
19 Sacks
6 Fumbles
Rating: 55.7

Steve Young's stats after starting 5 games his rookie year:

52.2% completion percentage
3 TD
8 INT
21 Sacks
4 Fumbles
Rating: 56.9

Dan Fouts' stats after 6 starts and 10 appearances:

44.8% completion percentage
6 TD
13 TD
14 Sacks
2 Fumbles
Rating: 46

And hey, last year's Trent Edwards:

56.1% completion percentage
7 TD
8 INT
12 Sacks
4 Fumbles
Rating: 70.4

And, of course, John Beck:

56.1% completion percentage
1 TD
3 INT
10 Sacks
7 Fumbles
Rating: 62

There are others, of course, who did better. Big Ben and our man Marino being notable exceptions. But consider that those two quarterbacks came in under decidedly better circumstances, with Big Ben coming into a strong running team good enough to win a Super Bowl, and Marino coming into a team that had gone to the Super Bowl the year before. Beck, of course, was drafted by what was eventually the worst team in the league. A team that needed a missed field goal and a miracle pass to win a SINGLE GAME.

The overall point being this: anyone who says that Beck is a definitive BUST and some kind of walking disease not only doesn't know what they're talking about, but is demonstrating the patience of a two-year old.

No one is saying Beck is a future Hall of Famer. But really, with the whole "bust" talk, please shut up.

AMEN!

Nice post my friend BUT you should be aware that this has all been brought up many times and it all falls on deaf ears for the ones that have the amazing ability to determine a rookies fate after his first year.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Beck's sack to fumble ratio should be cause for major concern. Hopefully someone ducttaped a ball in his hand over the off-season...

Agreed. It was odd, because according to ESPN (as hard as it is to believe), he didn't fumble at ALL in college.

 

[WVDolphan]

More stats. Did anyone WATCH these games Beck played?

While youre at your stats, subtract anything accomplished vs. the bungles cheerleaders in the 2nd half of that meaningless game that the Bungles lead comfortably(thanks to Becks first half play) and had their friends waiting outside with the car started, ready to hit up the airport on the way to wherever. Please. Calculate those numbers after you do that. Then.......

flush them down the toilet with all the other individual stats you have. Its football. Every persons performance has an effect on players at other positions. Just watch the guys play.

Someone tell me how John Beck did anything positive for the team last year. His play was pathetic. Certainly you could say some of these other rookies played poorly at QB as well, not just because of what the stats say. Im sure some of these HOFers had bad rookie seasons. But, Becks play was just miserable. He looked nothing like a QB at any point. Dude, made everyone on the team worse than what they already were.

Seriously people, the guy couldnt even move the offense AT ALL. We never sustained a drive when he was in there. NONE. No trips to the endzone in 4 games. Please. We barely got a FG when he was in there. Im sure when we did the D or special teams set it up for us. We seriously couldnt move the ball at all when he played. Even Lemon was able to make us almost look like an NFL offense. Pathetic. Beck made like 2 or 3 legit plays in 4 games. Get real. Not to mention that in 4 games he gave NFL films enough footage for an hour long NFL follies video.

 

[WVDolphan]

Agreed. It was odd, because according to ESPN (as hard as it is to believe), he didn't fumble at ALL in college.

Thats because the MWC has no defense at all. This is the NFL. Perhaps John Beck is just a good mid level college QB that just isnt NFL material. Its not like he would be the first. There have been tons of good college QBs who played in 2nd level conferences who never sniffed the NFL.

 

[dabeastdabone]

Not many people consider Beck a Bust as much as want to see a solid plan "B" in place.

And I appreciate your thought on it but this is on of those situations where I might chose to wonder why you didn't post he stats of all the guys who had a bad first season and never made it in the League.

 

[Coral Reefer]

More stats. Did anyone WATCH these games Beck played?

While youre at your stats, subtract anything accomplished vs. the bungles cheerleaders in the 2nd half of that meaningless game that the Bungles lead comfortably(thanks to Becks first half play) and had their friends waiting outside with the car started, ready to hit up the airport on the way to wherever. Please. Calculate those numbers after you do that. Then.......

flush them down the toilet with all the other individual stats you have. Its football. Every persons performance has an effect on players at other positions. Just watch the guys play.

Someone tell me how John Beck did anything positive for the team last year. His play was pathetic. Certainly you could say some of these other rookies played poorly at QB as well, not just because of what the stats say. Im sure some of these HOFers had bad rookie seasons. But, Becks play was just miserable. He looked nothing like a QB at any point. Dude, made everyone on the team worse than what they already were.

Seriously people, the guy couldnt even move the offense AT ALL. We never sustained a drive when he was in there. NONE. No trips to the endzone in 4 games. Please. We barely got a FG when he was in there. Im sure when we did the D or special teams set it up for us. We seriously couldnt move the ball at all when he played. Even Lemon was able to make us almost look like an NFL offense. Pathetic. Beck made like 2 or 3 legit plays in 4 games. Get real. Not to mention that in 4 games he gave NFL films enough footage for an hour long NFL follies video.

John Elway was boo'd off the field on numerous occasions in Denver during his rookie campaign and had many people commenting the same exact things you do about Beck any chance you get on here.
I'm not saying I think Beck is the next John Elway but I am saying that anyone states they can tell he's a bust after last year is full of it.

I'm really sick of having to bring it up but I will once more.
There is in fact a serious adjustment going from college to the pro level.
It takes an adjustment period and time to get the speed of the game.
This is clearly backed up by the stats Magoo presented here.
If you don't get it, and I know you don't, that's fine.

We'll see what happens.

 

[Mr. Magoo]

John Elway was boo'd off the field on numerous occasions in Denver during his rookie campaign and had many people commenting the same exact things you do about Beck any chance you get on here.
I'm not saying I think Beck is the next John Elway but I am saying that anyone states they can tell he's a bust after last year is full of it.

I'm really sick of having to bring it up but I will once more.
There is in fact a serious adjustment going from college to the pro level.
If you don't get it, and I know you don't, that's fine.

We'll see what happens.

Exactly. How many of John Elway's rookie games did you watch, WVDolphin? How many of Troy Aikman's? How many of Steve Young's? How many of Dan Fout's?

 

[WVDolphan]

Exactly. How many of John Elway's rookie games did you watch, WVDolphin? How many of Troy Aikman's? How many of Steve Young's? How many of Dan Fout's?

Good point.

Unfortunately for you I can kinda blow a little hole in your argument though. I did see a few of Aikmans. The thing is, although he struggled, when watching him play as a rookie, you could see things in him that suggested he would be a player in time. Kinda like Manning how he struggled too, but the guy put points on the board sometimes. You could see he could play, just had rookie struggles. The biggest difference in Beck and the guys you mentioned......TDs. Those guys were able to demonstrate that although they were struggling rookies, they were capable of putting it in the end zone.

When watching Beck, I see he has a quick release. And thats about the end of it when it comes to seeing him demonstrate something that suggests he can play QB in the NFL. At least from my prespective. I can be wrong. I hope I am. The more good QBs we have, the better off we are.

But, I definately like the angle you took. That was a good move asking how many games did I see play of the other QBs brought up who had poor rookie stats. I like it.

 

[Vaark]

Matt Leinart 07 before his injury: 2TDs, 4Ints, 61.9% Rating
JaMarcus Russell: 56% QB Rating 2TDs

That's TWO(2)(DOS)(Deux) QBs drafted in the top 10 over the last 2 years that Beck has either equaled or outperformed. I don't see Oakland or AZ doing anything other than planning for them to start. What's so different, especially considering the offensive arsenals both teams have, Oakland the 6th best rushing attack and AZ's 2 All Pro type receivers??????

 

[Fin-Fan-13]

Agreed. It was odd, because according to ESPN (as hard as it is to believe), he didn't fumble at ALL in college.

I am not sure the NCAA tracks fumbles for QBs.

Based on what I remember, Beck did fumble some early in his career. However, as an upper classman, he protected the ball very well particularly as a senior.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

More stats. Did anyone WATCH these games Beck played?

While youre at your stats, subtract anything accomplished vs. the bungles cheerleaders in the 2nd half of that meaningless game that the Bungles lead comfortably(thanks to Becks first half play) and had their friends waiting outside with the car started, ready to hit up the airport on the way to wherever. Please. Calculate those numbers after you do that. Then.......

flush them down the toilet with all the other individual stats you have. Its football. Every persons performance has an effect on players at other positions. Just watch the guys play.

Someone tell me how John Beck did anything positive for the team last year. His play was pathetic. Certainly you could say some of these other rookies played poorly at QB as well, not just because of what the stats say. Im sure some of these HOFers had bad rookie seasons. But, Becks play was just miserable. He looked nothing like a QB at any point. Dude, made everyone on the team worse than what they already were.

Seriously people, the guy couldnt even move the offense AT ALL. We never sustained a drive when he was in there. NONE. No trips to the endzone in 4 games. Please. We barely got a FG when he was in there. Im sure when we did the D or special teams set it up for us. We seriously couldnt move the ball at all when he played. Even Lemon was able to make us almost look like an NFL offense. Pathetic. Beck made like 2 or 3 legit plays in 4 games. Get real. Not to mention that in 4 games he gave NFL films enough footage for an hour long NFL follies video.

You just don't get it and probably you never will.

Nobody is arguing that Beck wasn't BAD last season. NOBODY. The argument is over whether ANY CONCLUSION can be drawn under the circumstances. The detailing of HOF QBs that started JUST AS BAD, merely PROVES that it is possible to overcome a bad rookie season. It doesn't prove that Beck will, but it proves it is possible.

No amount of whining or bashing or repetitive junk that you like to post about Beck changes the FACT that is is possible. So rant away all you want. It doesn't change the facts.

 

[BuffaloSoldier2]

Note: I put much of this in a post in a Henne/Beck thread, but I think it bears it's own thread.

John Elway's stats after his first 11 games.

47.5% completion percentage
7 TD
14 INT
28 Sacks
6 Fumbles
Rating: 54.9

Troy Aikman's stats in the eleven games he started as a rookie (btw, for exactly zero wins).

52.9% completion percentage
9 TD
18 INT
19 Sacks
6 Fumbles
Rating: 55.7

Steve Young's stats after starting 5 games his rookie year:

52.2% completion percentage
3 TD
8 INT
21 Sacks
4 Fumbles
Rating: 56.9

Dan Fouts' stats after 6 starts and 10 appearances:

44.8% completion percentage
6 TD
13 TD
14 Sacks
2 Fumbles
Rating: 46

And hey, last year's Trent Edwards:

56.1% completion percentage
7 TD
8 INT
12 Sacks
4 Fumbles
Rating: 70.4

And, of course, John Beck:

56.1% completion percentage
1 TD
3 INT
10 Sacks
7 Fumbles
Rating: 62

There are others, of course, who did better. Big Ben and our man Marino being notable exceptions. But consider that those two quarterbacks came in under decidedly better circumstances, with Big Ben coming into a strong running team good enough to win a Super Bowl, and Marino coming into a team that had gone to the Super Bowl the year before. Beck, of course, was drafted by what was eventually the worst team in the league. A team that needed a missed field goal and a miracle pass to win a SINGLE GAME.

The overall point being this: anyone who says that Beck is a definitive BUST and some kind of walking disease not only doesn't know what they're talking about, but is demonstrating the patience of a two-year old.

No one is saying Beck is a future Hall of Famer. But really, with the whole "bust" talk, please shut up.

So the moral of your story is Trent Edwards is better than Elway, Young, Aikman, and Fouts right??? :up:

 

[Captain Lou]

Thats because the MWC has no defense at all. This is the NFL. Perhaps John Beck is just a good mid level college QB that just isnt NFL material. Its not like he would be the first. There have been tons of good college QBs who played in 2nd level conferences who never sniffed the NFL.

You see the difference between you and everyone else is you leave no room to change your opinion. You are 100% dead set that Beck isn't any good. I'm sure you'd be willing to dump the before mentioned qb's.

Qb is a tough position. You continuely egnore the fact he was ill prepared to be successful on a untalented team. If you ever played the position you understand the game is moving fast, and if you ain't prepared you're going to fail.

I'm not saying he will be the answer, but I'm also not dumb enough to conceed he isn't!