Rose Bowl Thoughts and a Question

[Agent51]

OK, sorry for another thread but the other ones have SO many posts (and my original thread was closed, lol) and I wanna make sure this gets read:

First of all,
YES YES
YES YES!!!!
:D :D :D :D
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS! :rocker:

I am a diehard longhorns fan since 3rd grade (same time I started liking the Dolphins) and I have waited my entire life (I know it's only been 21 years, lol, but it seems long to me) for this moment. I suffered HEARTBREAK every single year watching my guys lose to Oklahoma and basically have that be their only loss and causing them to lose the title shot. I know in the other thread I said to someone (buddwalk I think) that I hoped this would be a close game and come out to be a last second win, but man, I'm not so sure that was the right wish now, I think I had 3 mini heart attacks, one semi-serious one, half an aneurysm, and possibly a stroke during the course of the game, mainly the last quarter. That might have been THE best college football game I have EVER seen. In fact, it IS the best college football game I have ever seen, there have been other amazing games but this one has to get the number one spot just because it was the title game and my team was in it and it was my team that had the last second victory and took down a giant.

When those refs missed that call when Vince's knee was down I INSTANTLY thought what EVERYONE would be saying the next day if Texas didn't win by more than 7, "Texas didn't really win, it was a blown call." I KNEW that would be coming, and I have been saying all along I want my guys to LEGITIMATELY beat USC, so there is NO DOUBT or question in anyone's mind. I said I wanted Reggie to play when he might have been suspended cuz of the agent thing, I said I wanted Leinart to play when he might have been suspended cuz of the TV spot thing, I wanted us to win against a 100% USC team, not missing its huge players. So when this happened all my friends and people who knew I was rooting for Texas cheered for me and slapped my back and all that, but I wasn't really celebrating when I saw the replay, I wanted a legit win, not a blown call "fluke" win. Thank GOD the refs blew that INT call later where we picked it but the GROUND caused a fumble and they said incomplete, because USC scored off of it making it even, both of us got a "gift" TD from the refs.

Again, I can't get over how amazing the game was, and I'm probably being so incoherent right now, lol, the adrenaline is STILL flowing for me, I haven't even been to bed yet, it's 6:43am here in Hawai'i, lol, I just got home so this is the first chance I have to post. I don't think you could ASK for a better National Championship game, the two best teams, both undefeated, close game all the way through, and it comes down to a last second score, and on FOURTH DOWN at that, wow, just WOW :eek:

Anyway, that being said, here's my question:

After that performance, assuming Vince leaves, does his stock rise and Leinart's fall?

I was watching the NFL network and one of the guys said even if Vince doesn't come out then Leinart STILL won't be the #1 QB, that would go to Jay Cutler, because Leinart didn't do anything to ease the scouts minds regarding his arm strength etc last night, plus he doesn't have the physical tools of a Carson Palmer.

Personally, I have said from day 1 I don't think Leinart is as good as people say he is, and you can look at all my posts, this isn't just coming from last night. I have always thought he'd be an average starter, nothing great. That being said, I have never been "pro Vince", I would take Vince over Leinart, but my vote has always been for a DB in round 1. Also, even though I hate the guy to death and think he is overrated, I don't get why he would drop because of his performance last night? I mean, everyone is so high and mighty on him, why would last night's performance drop his position in the draft but other horrid performances this year kept him at #1? I have never thought he was deserving of all the hype he gets, but pretty much everyone else has, so why if he is so hyped does he fall after losing the Rose Bowl, when it wasn't even his worst game of the year?

OK, that was just thoughts I had to get out, and a Question I had after seeing both play each other last night and hearing that NFL Access show, I'm gonna crash and when I wake up hopefully I'll be calmed down enough to post something that has structure and makes sense, because right now there are a million things trying to come out at once and IDK if it makes any sense,

 

[kastofsna120]

leinart played at an exceptional level against one of the top defenses in the country, even when reggie bush was on the sidelines. in a pro-style offense, no less. he faced tons of pressure from texas's front 4 all night, and moved very effieciently in the pocket and completed some passes while on the move. he was very accurate all night, he just forced some passes and put too much touch on some early passes. he showed plenty of zip on the right passes. he didn't throw deep too much, but the one TD he threw was about 25 yards, and it was a DART right into jarrett's chest. he made several quick slant plays on a one step drop and zipped it in with great accuracy. how in the world can anyone question his arm? young certainly didn't show any great arm strength last night

 

[K-train]

leinart played at an exceptional level against one of the top defenses in the country, even when reggie bush was on the sidelines. in a pro-style offense, no less. he faced tons of pressure from texas's front 4 all night, and moved very effieciently in the pocket and completed some passes while on the move. he was very accurate all night, he just forced some passes and put too much touch on some early passes. he showed plenty of zip on the right passes. he didn't throw deep too much, but the one TD he threw was about 25 yards, and it was a DART right into jarrett's chest. he made several quick slant plays on a one step drop and zipped it in with great accuracy. how in the world can anyone question his arm? young certainly didn't show any great arm strength last night

@ him being the only one to defend Lienart on this forum.

Matt did also have a good game. He just wasn't able to make the plays at the end of the game.

 

[kastofsna120]

he didn't get a shot to make the plays

 

[ether79]

he didn't get a shot to make the plays

He should've at least had the chance on 3rd and 7 he deserved that much, but alas he wasn't.

 

[Agent51]

leinart played at an exceptional level against one of the top defenses in the country, even when reggie bush was on the sidelines. in a pro-style offense, no less. he faced tons of pressure from texas's front 4 all night, and moved very effieciently in the pocket and completed some passes while on the move. he was very accurate all night, he just forced some passes and put too much touch on some early passes. he showed plenty of zip on the right passes. he didn't throw deep too much, but the one TD he threw was about 25 yards, and it was a DART right into jarrett's chest. he made several quick slant plays on a one step drop and zipped it in with great accuracy. how in the world can anyone question his arm? young certainly didn't show any great arm strength last night

Dude, you can't call Texas' D a top defense now when up until the game last night you said their D can't really be a top D cuz their stats are inflated due to playing weak offensive teams. It's completely contradictory of you. Also, yeah, Leinart played an OK game, which is why I questioned why all the sudden everyone has him dropping now when it wasn't his worst game. I also never said Young showed great armstrength, but the argument isn't who has the better arm strength, nor is it even comparing the two (Vince DOES have the better of the two), it was saying that Leinart was exposed against a good D, and his flaws were pretty clear cut against a good D, whereas against weaker Ds he played all season he could just run up the score and take focus off his flaws. Also, if Leinart plays in a pro style offense, and Texas' D either sucks and is overrated (your PRE Rose Bowl argument) or is the top D in the country (your POST Rose Bowl argument) then Leinart was exposed as overrated either way last night. If he was shut down by an overrated D then what encouragement would that give anyone for him being a great pro, if he can't even "destroy" I think was the quote from most people here, an overrated defense? On the other hand, if he was shut down by the best D in the country, most pro Ds are even tougher, and whatever team he goes to isn't going to have 1 all american and 3 all conference players on it's o-line, or Reggie Bush, LenDale White, Jarret, Smith, Byrd etc etc to back him up, then why would people think he is going to be so great in the NFL? Said it before, and I'll say it again, OVERRATED, you seem to love that word so I'm sure you know what it means (although you might not because apparently DAN MARINO was overrated :sidelol: ), Leinart will be average at best in the NFL, he wouldn't be a Heisman winner if not for his O-Line, his 2 stud RBs, and his WR core.

 

[kastofsna120]

Dude, you can't call Texas' D a top defense now when up until the game last night you said their D can't really be a top D cuz their stats are inflated due to playing weak offensive teams. It's completely contradictory of you. Also, yeah, Leinart played an OK game, which is why I questioned why all the sudden everyone has him dropping now when it wasn't his worst game. I also never said Young showed great armstrength, but the argument isn't who has the better arm strength, nor is it even comparing the two (Vince DOES have the better of the two), it was saying that Leinart was exposed against a good D, and his flaws were pretty clear cut against a good D, whereas against weaker Ds he played all season he could just run up the score and take focus off his flaws. Also, if Leinart plays in a pro style offense, and Texas' D either sucks and is overrated (your PRE Rose Bowl argument) or is the top D in the country (your POST Rose Bowl argument) then Leinart was exposed as overrated either way last night. If he was shut down by an overrated D then what encouragement would that give anyone for him being a great pro, if he can't even "destroy" I think was the quote from most people here, an overrated defense? On the other hand, if he was shut down by the best D in the country, most pro Ds are even tougher, and whatever team he goes to isn't going to have 1 all american and 3 all conference players on it's o-line, or Reggie Bush, LenDale White, Jarret, Smith, Byrd etc etc to back him up, then why would people think he is going to be so great in the NFL? Said it before, and I'll say it again, OVERRATED, you seem to love that word so I'm sure you know what it means (although you might not because apparently DAN MARINO was overrated :sidelol: ), Leinart will be average at best in the NFL, he wouldn't be a Heisman winner if not for his O-Line, his 2 stud RBs, and his WR core.

well their defense is still overrated, namely their front 7, but that secodnary is great. 2nd of all, he played great against the defense, regardless of whether it's good to you or bad to me or whatever. how can you say they shut him down? his line let him down last night, allowing too much pressure (they dominated in the running game though). also how can you say his stock shouldn't be dropping but then say he didn't play well and THEN say he's going to be average at best? young had no pressure all night. none. his receivers and tight end caught everything. it was reggie bush who was getting tackled behind the line. how can you even use that ridiculous argument when it was LEINART who stepped up when his line and receivers weren't performing. leinart had a bad first half, and instead of just handing the ball off, they came out passing the ball in the 2nd half. think they have confidence in their QB?

 

[Agent51]

well their defense is still overrated, namely their front 7, but that secodnary is great. 2nd of all, he played great against the defense, regardless of whether it's good to you or bad to me or whatever. how can you say they shut him down? his line let him down last night, allowing too much pressure (they dominated in the running game though). also how can you say his stock shouldn't be dropping but then say he didn't play well and THEN say he's going to be average at best? young had no pressure all night. none. his receivers and tight end caught everything. it was reggie bush who was getting tackled behind the line. how can you even use that ridiculous argument when it was LEINART who stepped up when his line and receivers weren't performing. leinart had a bad first half, and instead of just handing the ball off, they came out passing the ball in the 2nd half. think they have confidence in their QB?

I can say that because I said the game LAST NIGHT shouldn't have him dropping if the games he played WORSE in this season didn't have him dropping. I don't think he should be as high as the "experts" say he should be, I'm not lobbying for him not to drop, cuz I don't think he should be that high in the first place, I'm just wondering why everyone says he's gonna drop now when that wasn't even close to his worst game. He didn't play well in the 1st half, then he stepped it up, I will give him that, but his weaknesses were still exposed. I personally think Leinart would be BETTER going mid-to-late 1st round because he would have a better cast around him. I just don't see him being able to come to the NFL to a horrid team (which is what all the top picking teams are) and turn them around. He needs to go to a team that has a running game, at least one good WR, and a decent oline then he would prolly have a shot at being something, because I don't see him being able to carry a team on his shoulders, eventually he will crack and make the mistakes. Leinart will prolly start in the NFL, but he WON'T be a HoF and I highly doubt he'll even be a Pro-Bowler, he is just going to be a capable starter, someone who can get wins but also gets losses with mistakes. It's my opinion of him, but I base it on what I've seen and the situation he's in, I'm not someone who hates on him because I like a different QB beter and just don't want him.

 

[kastofsna120]

are you one of those who thinks tom brady is overrated?

 

[Agent51]

are you one of those who thinks tom brady is overrated?

No, I do hate Brady, but I can't call him overrated, he wins. I know Leinart wins too, but look at his team, he BETTER win with that supporting cast. Brady doesn't have anyone on offense that is a true star, anyone that he didn't MAKE a star anyway. Dillon doesn't count because Brady won SBs before Corey got there. If Leinart was on a team without an all american olineman, 3 all conference olinemen, Reggie and LenDale, Smith, Jarrett, Byrd, etc etc then he wouldn't have a heisman trophy, be in 3rd place in the voting for another, have a 30 something game win streak and have "lead his team" to three national title games, winning two. Brady and Leinart aren't comparable because Brady basically wins no matter what, he thrives under pressure, he seems to actualyl play BETTER in games with a lot on the line as opposed to normal games. If Leinert were like Brady he would have won last night, ok, his oline didn't give him helo and we rendered Reggie useless etc etc, but to compare him to Brady then he still would have found a way to win.

 

[kastofsna120]

lol, i knew it. "he wins." completely ignore his ability as a quarterback

 

[Agent51]

lol, i knew it. "he wins." completely ignore his ability as a quarterback

You asked me if I thought Brady was overrated, my answer was No, because he wins. When I think of Tom Brady I don't think "student of the game" like Manning or "playmaker" like *gulp* Vick etc etc, I think "winner" because thats what he does. He isn't the smartest QB, he isn't the flashiest, he isn't the most mechanically sound, and he isn't the best physical QB, what makes him great is somehow he always figures out to win. By asking me if I think Brady is overrated too during the middle of a Leinart discussion I took at as you comparing him to Brady, hence the talk about the winning. If you compared him to Manning or someone like that I would have talked about his "QB abilities". Brady isn't a great "ability" QB, except his ability to handle pressure and win. I have seen TONS of HORRIB plays by him, just look how we beat them in last season's Monday night game for the most obivous example off the top of my head. If he didn't throw that WRETCHED ball, which is against EVERYTHING your taught as an NFL QB, and was a pretty pop-warner decision if you ask me, then the Pats would have won the game. Leinart doesn't have the compsuer to do stuff like that (win, not lose the game with last second INTs). he struggled in the first half, got it together, then lost it again. Even if you argue that he was compsed in THIS game, there are plenty of other examples of him cracking under pressure, or just losing compsuer altogether, and under MUCH less pressure than last night.

 

[kastofsna120]

see that's where you're COMPELTELY WRONG. manning has NOTHING on brady. absolutely nothing

 

[Agent51]

see that's where you're COMPELTELY WRONG. manning has NOTHING on brady. absolutely nothing

Are you serious? Dude, first of all I never SAID Manning has anything on Brady, you are reading my argument wrong, but even so, I'd much rather have Manning's physical and mental atributes than Brady's. Brady wins, but he makes stupid mistakes a lot, and he isn't the "protoype" QB build. Manning has great technique and makes great decisions and is a good size for a QB. If Brady didn't win the SBs nobody would be on his nuts, because for the most part his regular season play is nothing to write home about.

 

[kastofsna120]

i actually didn't read your argument, because i didn't even READ your argument!!! who wins now

brady doesn't succumb under pressure, manning is a complete disaster when pressured. brady doesn't need a running game to win, manning does. i could go on. super bowls aside, brady is still a better quarterback than manning, plain and simple