Roster Year 2: JJ, Wanny, Spiels, and Nick.

[His'nBeatYour'n]

Last year around this time I posted a similar thread
http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=94827

2005 Opening day Roster:

Acquired by JJ (1996-1999): 4 starters, 0 Reserves
Acquired by Wanny (2000-2003): 6 starters, 6 Reserves
Acquired by Spiels (2004): 6 starters, 6 Reserves
Acquired since Nick came onboard: 8 starters, 18 Reserves

2006 Opening day Roster: (53 to include Sammy Morris, a Spielman pickup)
35 out of 53 players and 15 out of 24 starters are Nick Saban players.

Acquired by JJ (1996-1999): 3 starters, 0 Reserves
Acquired by Wanny (2000-2003): 2 starters, 5 Reserves
Acquired by Spiels (2004): 4 starters, 4 Reserves
Acquired since Nick came onboard: 15 starters, 20 Reserves

Observations:
-This is now Saban's team, but most importantly it is Saban's Defense. Only Taylor and Thomas are holdover starters. And only 4 defensive backups were on the team prior to his arrival. Zgonina, Bell, Bowens, and Pope.
- In one year of final say Spielman assembled 3/5 of the offensive line and a key backup in McIntosh.
- Wannstedt's influence is all but gone. But his two starters are two of my favorites; McMichael and Chambers.
- I said it last year and I'll say it again, JJ was terrible at drafting offense.

OFFENSE
QB Daunte Culpepper -NICK
HB Ronnie Brown -NICK
FB Darian Barnes -NICK
WR Marty Booker -SPIELS
WR Chris Chambers -WANNY
TE Randy McMichael -WANNY
LT LJ Shelton -NICK
LG Jeno James -SPIELS
C Rex Hadnot -SPIELS
RG Bennie Anderson -NICK
RT Vernon Carey -SPIELS

DEFENSE
LE Kevin Carter -NICK
NT Keith Traylor -NICK
DT Vonnie Holliday -NICK
OE Jason Taylor -JJ
WLB Channing Crowder -NICK
MLB Zach Thomas -JJ
SLB Donnie Spragan -NICK
LCB Will Allen -NICK
RCB Travis Daniels -NICK
SS Travares Tillman -NICK
FS Renaldo Hill -NICK

ST
K Olindo Mare -JJ
P Donnie Jones -NICK
Technically not a starter, but noteworthy
KR/PR Wes Welker -SPIELS

 

[Kdawg954]

You would figure that Nick has HIS defense in there being the specialist he is (outside of 2 potential hall of famers of course).

 

[cnc66]

nice breakdown. A lot of personnel change...what do you think, is Mannytee the only bad decision to this point? I cannot offhand think of another bust. (our buddy Bennie might soon be on this list) I'd say that says a lot that for all that change, that almost all of it has been a spot on improvement in talent.

 

[Shula Fan]

Call me insane, but I think Speilman will do OK now that he practiced with us. I didn't think he was too far off with most of his evaluatioing talent. Feeley being the biggest dissappointment. I don't think he gets dupped again like he did with Carey.

I just wish he didn't have his first try with us.

I like what Nick is doing.

 

[His'nBeatYour'n]

nice breakdown. A lot of personnel change...what do you think, is Mannytee the only bad decision to this point? I cannot offhand think of another bust. (our buddy Bennie might soon be on this list) I'd say that says a lot that for all that change, that almost all of it has been a spot on improvement in talent.

If Manny was the only bad decision, I can live with that. A supplemental pick is always a gamble.

Stockar MacDougle was a bad pickup last year, and time will tell about the defensive backfield changes from Surtain and Madison to what we have now.

Having almost nothing but Nick Saban guys running around in that defensive, is what has me most excited.

 

[cnc66]

If Manny was the only bad decision, I can live with that. A supplemental pick is always a gamble.

Stockar MacDougle was a bad pickup last year, and time will tell about the defensive backfield changes from Surtain and Madison to what we have now.

Having almost nothing but Nick Saban guys running around in that defensive, is what has me most excited.

if history does indeed repeat itself, and things are looking REAL good on "paper", we will have a dominating defense by midseason...and he's NOT done... It feels SOOOO good knowing we have entered an era of smash you in the mouth defense. It has been a long long time since I "beleived"..by seasons end we will see if my faith was properly served. I really think there is MUCH to look forward too. The haters will be all over things as we learn and make mistakes, but in the long term "I" believe we have improved greatly. You know, in Wanny's days we started every season with "hope"...this time I think it could be valid instead of homerism.

 

[PHINANALYST]

Tough to compare JJ / WANNY and SABAN on defense -- especially since JJ had a different style of player ....

JJ depended upon SPEED then SIZE ... WANNY fell in line ... and SABAN goes with a RON WOLF style player ... SIZE then SPEED ... so, not surprising at alll with the wholesale change on DEFENSE ....

On OFFENSE, JJ fell victim to drafting for NEED ... mostly WR & RB ... that NEVER worked ... a lesson everyone learns ... you just CAN NOT draft solely for NEED ...

 

[laxcoach]

Considering the avg NFL career is around 3.5 years, I'm not sure what you are expecting from JJ to remain. He has been gone for 6 years. Throw in the fact that JJ and Saban have polar opposite defenses, and it is a surprise that 2 players remain from JJ's regime.

 

[His'nBeatYour'n]

Considering the avg NFL career is around 3.5 years, I'm not sure what you are expecting from JJ to remain. He has been gone for 6 years. Throw in the fact that JJ and Saban have polar opposite defenses, and it is a surprise that 2 players remain from JJ's regime.

I think most fans, including myself, are shocked to learn about the changeover in rosters over any short period of time. Your point is well taken.

If Tim Bowens did not have to retire a year ago, I would have included Don Shula too.

 

[His'nBeatYour'n]

On OFFENSE, JJ fell victim to drafting for NEED ... mostly WR & RB ... that NEVER worked ... a lesson everyone learns ... you just CAN NOT draft solely for NEED ...

On OFFENSE, JJ fell victim to having no clue what he was doing. I think he was draft genius when it came to OL and defense, but he had no clue when it came to skill positions on offense.

And before anyone mentions the Big 3 in Dallas, I'll remind them that Michael Irvin was already on the team, Aikman was the no-brainer #1 pick, and when JJ drafted Emmitt Smith (17th overall?) he admitted that he preferred Blair Thomas, whom the Jets drafted ahead of him.

 

[Aussiefinfan54]

Considering the avg NFL career is around 3.5 years, I'm not sure what you are expecting from JJ to remain. He has been gone for 6 years. Throw in the fact that JJ and Saban have polar opposite defenses, and it is a surprise that 2 players remain from JJ's regime.

yeah its a bit slack to say that he was bad because he only has 2 defensive starters left over from his time here

 

[CD13]

I guess there is three things we can thank Wanny for - sucking so bad that we got Saban, drafting Chambers, and drafting McMike.

 

[CitizenSnips]

i have the feeling barnes was on the team before nick...although im sure im wrong.

 

[PhinsRock]

Give me a team of Saban's design any day. I like his talent for evaluating skill players. JJ had a talent for ripping other teams off in trades, he ripped the Vikes off for a total of 28 players (including draft picks) for Herschel Walker, that's how he built the SB winning Cowboys. Biggest theft ever in the NFL.

 

[TampaFinsFan01]

Tough to compare JJ / WANNY and SABAN on defense -- especially since JJ had a different style of player ....

JJ depended upon SPEED then SIZE ... WANNY fell in line ... and SABAN goes with a RON WOLF style player ... SIZE then SPEED ... so, not surprising at alll with the wholesale change on DEFENSE ....

On OFFENSE, JJ fell victim to drafting for NEED ... mostly WR & RB ... that NEVER worked ... a lesson everyone learns ... you just CAN NOT draft solely for NEED ...

The draft board should be slotted by BPA and that alone.

Its sounds crazy but it works itselft out.

You should never pick a "lesser player" because of "need". If the BPA is a position that you don't need, you should trade out of the pick and acquire extra picks until the positions you need become value on the draft board.

The reason this works out is because a "team strength" this year will become a need next year.

Two teams that for the past 7-8 years have done this better than anyone have been the Eagles and Patriots. They often drafted players that weren't need positions at the time. Just like when the Eagles drafted Sheldon Brown and Lito Sheppard. They still had Vincent and I think Dawkins starting in the Secondary.

When they needed Oline, they TRADED UP to get the BPA in Shawn Andrews. This isn't hard to understand, its just hard to have the discipline to stay the course, in part, because the media and boards like this crucify GMs on draft day if GMs don't address what is the conventional team need.

The problem with this is two fold. One, you often reach for a lesser player that never lives up to his draft status and is mediocre on the field. Two, when teams know that you are going to draft for need, they will make moves to jump you in the draft. It happened to Seattle with Daniel Graham and it happened to Miami with Shawn Andrews. Those teams made it clear thru signals and past behavior that those were the players the respective teams "needed" and would draft. The Pats jumped the Seahawks and took Graham and the Eagles jumped the Fins and took Andrews.

Bottom line..NEVER pick a guy for need if there is a better player on your board. Either take the better player or trade down.