Roth, disappiontment?? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Roth, disappiontment??

Last night I posted that Roth looked more like a 4th or 5th rounder than a #2. Maybe it's due to 15+ years living in Las Vegas and dealing with guys who aren't tunnelvision Dolphin fanatics, but I'm plenty astounded by most of the in-denial posts in this thread. The original poster is absolutely correct.

If the team could pick over again at #46, Matt Roth would not be among the considerations. I'll be assailed for that but sling away. The coaching staff is not blind and what they see is not a player who has talent worthy of the #46 pick. Naturally they'll never admit to it.

Roth has a small frame. That is what jumped out at me in the first exhibition game and I posted it here, saying we needed to find creative ways to let Roth loose at the QB because he'll never defeat the caliber of athlete across from him. From college we already knew Roth lacked ideal moves and finesse. Then you throw in the lack of a burst. Watch one play last night when Vickerson and Roth were pursuing toward the right sideline and Vickerson looked like Michael Johnson compared to Roth. So what you have is a small, straightline, one-gear, hard trying young DE. The weaknesses are not in areas he can make drastic improvement, other than perhaps some agility work and acquiring sly moves. He will never return full secound round value. The good news is that's not fatal anymore. This regime has correct priorities and excellent eye for personnel. We'll make up the difference elsewhere, if we haven't already with a guy like Vickerson.
 
Jeeesus......Some people on here are the most annoying, pessimistic people I have ever run across. Get off it will ya. What do you people want a bunch of superheroes?
 
777 said:
PSSSSS......He has met my expectations. I think he has done pretty good. If he was as good as you guys want him to be right off the bat, He woulda been a top 5 pick. I think with some speed and agility training, a little more weight, some tutoring from JT, and if he stays healthy, He will be ONE of the top DE in the league in a COUPLE years.


:yeahthat:

Take note Fin fans
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Last night I posted that Roth looked more like a 4th or 5th rounder than a #2. Maybe it's due to 15+ years living in Las Vegas and dealing with guys who aren't tunnelvision Dolphin fanatics, but I'm plenty astounded by most of the in-denial posts in this thread. The original poster is absolutely correct.

If the team could pick over again at #46, Matt Roth would not be among the considerations. I'll be assailed for that but sling away. The coaching staff is not blind and what they see is not a player who has talent worthy of the #46 pick. Naturally they'll never admit to it.

Roth has a small frame. That is what jumped out at me in the first exhibition game and I posted it here, saying we needed to find creative ways to let Roth loose at the QB because he'll never defeat the caliber of athlete across from him. From college we already knew Roth lacked ideal moves and finesse. Then you throw in the lack of a burst. Watch one play last night when Vickerson and Roth were pursuing toward the right sideline and Vickerson looked like Michael Johnson compared to Roth. So what you have is a small, straightline, one-gear, hard trying young DE. The weaknesses are not in areas he can make drastic improvement, other than perhaps some agility work and acquiring sly moves. He will never return full secound round value. The good news is that's not fatal anymore. This regime has correct priorities and excellent eye for personnel. We'll make up the difference elsewhere, if we haven't already with a guy like Vickerson.


If we don't agree, then we are tunnelvisioned? How simplistic and all around cute. :peck:
 
ckparrothead said:
What I like about Roth is that he's done the little things correctly...I mean making plays isn't exactly a "little thing" but you know, being in the right position, having a high motor, etc. And every week with his passrush it seems like he's just choppin wood at his technique to get himself closer and closer to the QB. He's like Trace Armstrong in a LOT of ways, and I believe the guy can be successful like Trace.

One of his problems, is that he has short arms. He's not used getting hands placed on him first. When he's running dead ahead full, a hand can knock him off balance for a second. From day one in practice until now, he has made a heck of a lot of progress with his technique, like upper cutting, and arm swipes. He's going to get better, and better, and could very well be as successful as Armstrong, or ever better.

Jason Taylor's really taken a liking to him as well. He was all over him after the Int, and is constantly offering encouragement to him. JT must see the possibilities..
 
Ozzy said:
One of his problems, is that he has short arms. He's not used getting hands placed on him first. When he's running dead ahead full, a hand can knock him off balance for a second. From day one in practice until now, he has made a heck of a lot of progress with his technique, like upper cutting, and arm swipes. He's going to get better, and better, and could very well be as successful as Armstrong, or ever better.

Jason Taylor's really taken a liking to him as well. He was all over him after the Int, and is constantly offering encouragement to him. JT must see the possibilities..
I think JT, along with Carter, and Holliday will help coach him up on the field. I think he will continue to improve. Nick will probably rotate Dlineman in to keep them fresh, so he should see some game time, and better himself!
 
Pacman Jones muffed a punt, I wouldn't be surprised to see Tennessee put him on the practice squad. (tongue planted firmly in cheek).

Alex Smith fumbled, he's probably PS bound too.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Last night I posted that Roth looked more like a 4th or 5th rounder than a #2. Maybe it's due to 15+ years living in Las Vegas and dealing with guys who aren't tunnelvision Dolphin fanatics, but I'm plenty astounded by most of the in-denial posts in this thread. The original poster is absolutely correct.

If the team could pick over again at #46, Matt Roth would not be among the considerations. I'll be assailed for that but sling away. The coaching staff is not blind and what they see is not a player who has talent worthy of the #46 pick. Naturally they'll never admit to it.

Roth has a small frame. That is what jumped out at me in the first exhibition game and I posted it here, saying we needed to find creative ways to let Roth loose at the QB because he'll never defeat the caliber of athlete across from him. From college we already knew Roth lacked ideal moves and finesse. Then you throw in the lack of a burst. Watch one play last night when Vickerson and Roth were pursuing toward the right sideline and Vickerson looked like Michael Johnson compared to Roth. So what you have is a small, straightline, one-gear, hard trying young DE. The weaknesses are not in areas he can make drastic improvement, other than perhaps some agility work and acquiring sly moves. He will never return full secound round value. The good news is that's not fatal anymore. This regime has correct priorities and excellent eye for personnel. We'll make up the difference elsewhere, if we haven't already with a guy like Vickerson.

I think the first part I highlighted in bold would get you assailed long before "your own" opinions on Roth.

Even though I totally dissagree.

Vickerson runs a 5.15 in the forty, and Roth runs a 4.77. When all you do is watch on TV, you can miss so much of the play. So don't be so sure that Vickerson is that fast.

Roth is a well-built athlete with a powerful upper body, broad shoulders, quick feet, above-average explosion off the snap, narrow hips, and thick thighs and calves. His quickness allows him to be very effective on stunts, playing with his hand down wide to the open side to get after the quarterback instantly coming out of his stance. He does an excellent job of generating a strong hand punch, showing good extension to keep blockers off his body to shed.

Vickerson shows adequate hustle in pursuit, but still needs to work on clearing his feet. He sometimes looks awkward working through traffic due to stiffness in his hips. Right now he lacks change-of-direction agility and appears stiff working down the line.
 
TarHeelFinFan said:
Pacman Jones muffed a punt, I wouldn't be surprised to see Tennessee put him on the practice squad. (tongue planted firmly in cheek).

Alex Smith fumbled, he's probably PS bound too.

hhahahaha

pretty good ideas...... :D
 
Ozzy said:
Vickerson runs a 5.15 in the forty, and Roth runs a 4.77. When all you do is watch on TV, you can miss so much of the play. So don't be so sure that Vickerson is that fast.

I think Roth weighs more than he used to now that Saban has asked him to gain weight. I'm thinking that Roth might have outgrown his frame.

I watched one of his college games against the florida gators and I remember him more explosive than I have seen recently. Maybe he is just not the same player at his current weight?
 
KTOWNFINFAN said:
Is it just me or does Roth seem slow and stiff?? Especially on the pick while running across the field he looked more like a DT than a DE. I really expected more out of him than what I have seen. He has shown me NOTHING that translates in to big time player down the road.
I don't expect him to be playing like Ware for Dallas, but I would like to see him show me something. Right now I would not be surprised to see him put on the PS.

Give it a rest on this guy.
He's a rookie and needs time to grow.
He shows tremendous heart on every play and that's not something a coach can teach. He lacks technique and that can be taught. It is WAY too early to count this kid out.
 
Im sure all you Roth haters were saying the same stuff about JT and Zack when they were rookies. We didnt listen to you than and we arn't now. For christ sake's he's played 0 NFL games. ZERO. You people probaly think Ronnie should be cut because he looks slow and weaker than Ricky. That's how ricdicioulsy stupid this thread is.
 
FakeSpike13 said:
why not? Do you realize the people on our DL are all old... Carter, Holliday, Taylor, Traylor, Chester, etc... we need an infusion of youth on the line... you dont wait until the line gets too old and ineffective to address the problem... that would be a spielman/wanny way of doing things. You let Roth develop alongside the veterans, and you even draft another DL in the top 4 rds next year. Plus the value at roth's slot was tremendous, he's very similar to David Pollack in many pre-draft scouting reports, and Pollack went to the Bengals at 26th overall...
Totally agree with all you said, except Pollack was drafted 17th overall rather than 26th.
 
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