Rumor - Grier And McDaniel On The Hot Seat

[Kyndig]

There's nothing wrong with being fun to watch but it's not necessarily sustainable and it's not really going to garner long-term support from the fans when the NFL is competitive and therefore based on pivoting to "what's next" when the current strategy is proven lacking. That's not getting into any potential issues with building around a single player, let alone a potentially diva WR who doesn't have the most stable, reliable, low-key off-field persona.

Personally, I think there's a strong case to be made that Chris Grier has done a great job just as much as there's a case that's more critical (which is what I partially went through).

I certainly don't hate Chris Grier. I admire a lot of what he's done. We're more relevant now than at any time in my fandom. But I think his limitations with drafting and hiring coaches are pretty evident. The team is better now because Tua > Tannehill and we're investing more aggressively in a "win-now" mode. Is it really more complicated than that?

If this does get blown up it might be fun to try and find a HC in the mold of a Dan Quinn who could come in having learned from past failure in similar fashion to what we've seen from other experienced coaches making the most of their 2nd or 3rd stint: Bill Belichick, Pete Carroll, Andy Reid, etc. I'd like a bit of experience because we seem to be flailing when it comes to leadership.

It’s a strange time. As you pointed out in one of your posts, Tua was not handled well by Flores his first couple of seasons coming off of that hip injury. He should’ve had a red shirt rookie season, covid didnt help any either. The combination of it taking awhile for him to recover physically, and the way that Flores treated him, the whole Deshaun Watson saga, contributed to a narrative developing about him that is hyper crticical vs most other QBs, and somewhat unfair. He definitely has areas to improve upon, but he has show flashes of being elite and some elite traits, yet he has not answered every question yet by not playing well at the end of this season.

I get the frustration, but I believe that McDaniel and the FO believe in him and are all in with him, and I hope that Grier does what seems so obvious and addresses that Offensive Line as the priority this off season. Kansas City showed you how you beat a team like the Ravens in Baltimore in January when they came into their stadium and punched them in the mouth by running the football right down their throats and playing good defense vs Lamar Jackson. Mahomes wasn’t overwhelming in that game, but he did make some plays when he needed to, but at the end of the day, it was their running game, power running game, and defense that really won the day for them there.

Our Oline depth was too thin, and Eichenberg isn’t the answer starting anywhere, that guy has career backup written all over him. Conner Williams will be injured likely when the season starts. I’d re-sign Hunt, and draft Jackson Powers Johnson in the first round if he’s available, or the next best available lineman if he’s not, and maybe draft another lineman with the second round pick or one of the top receivers available as it is a deep class, preferably someone big bodied who can threaten the seam and be a not a comically short target in the red area.

At 330 pounds JPJ can anchor the center of that line and add a power running and short yardage game to the running game which is sorely needed not only for increasing red zone efficiency, and 3rd down conversions, but also as something we can go to when all of the cutesy motion stuff of our offense isn’t on the table due to crowd noise when we are away.

McDaniel also needs to add a quick strick no huddle package together for Tua for when the offense is out of synch that we can use with and improved running game (which he needs to stick with and not get away from especially when it’s working) and the offense should be much improved and tough Enough to hold up vs playoff teams in December and January.

I think Tua has what it takes, but we need to have some options when the offense is out of synch, or on the road to have more diversity, and consistency, and that’s not all on Tua, although that doesn’t mean he doesn’t need to improve on some things as well and step up in big games.

What I can say is I’ve been a fan since about 1975, and I can tell you that you should enjoy it when it is fun to watch and exciting because with this team at least, there have been games that were right up there with Marino’s prime in terms of expectation, excitement and enjoyment, but with higher expectations, come bigger disappointments when things don’t pan out the way we hope, yet people forget how bad it’s been for so long and lose perspective…

 

[phinsforlife]

I think we would have beaten the Bills in last years playoff if Tua was playing instead of Skylar

Making just his third career start, Thompson finished 18 of 45 for 220 yards with a touchdown and two interceptions.

“Man, our defense played so good today. That’s tough. Because those guys gave us every chance to win,” Thompson said. “Feel like that’s a game we definitely had the opportunity to win. I will take (responsibility) for the loss, and shoulder that, and move forward.”

tua's line vs KC was not very different than skylar thompson vs buffalo, in fact worse because alot of the yards and the TD came on a terrible ball to tyreek that he got lucky on. tua also lost both games to buffalo this year, and badly at that. the scoreboard is the scoreboard. my lord the excuse making is interminable. the dolphins would be 17-0 and have 18 super bowl wins, if if if if. if my grandma had wheels, she would be a trolley car. if the queen had balls, she would be the king. if i was 6'4 and could run a 4.3 40, i would be in the nfl. but i am not, and i cannot

 

[fishfanmiami]

If you don't think Tua gives us a better chance to win than Skylar you are delusional

 

[gofins60]

Well said. The only thing I would push back on a little would be Tyreek Hill. Just speaking as a fan, i haven’t had so much fun enjoying watching fins games thanks to Hill/Tua/McDaniels the past couple of years since the 80’s and early 90’s. I see your point about winning and missed opportunities, can’t disagree with any of them really, but the team has been fun to watch the past couple of years which they really hadn’t been for well over 20 years minus a couple of anomalies…

Since the NFL is in the entertainment business, I can look at this from both sides. Under McDaniel, the Dolphins gave us fans some highly entertaining games to watch, with lots of big plays by Tua, Hill, Mostert, Achane, and Waddle. How can you not love seeing Miami score 10 TDs in a single game? Wow! There were more big plays during the past two seasons than there has been in a long, long time.

However, the NFL is also a highly competitive football league with the top teams vying for a chance to play in the Super Bowl. Yes, Miami just had back-to-back playoff appearances. But, that means very little in a league where a team under .500 can make the playoffs. It's what you do in the playoffs that counts, and that's where Miami chokes and falls apart. Last year they squeaked into the playoffs with the 7th Seed after a lousy 11-6 win over the hapless Jets, and this year they ended up with the 6th Seed. In both seasons Miami started out good, were one of the top teams mid-season, and then went into the toilet at the end of the year. This past year they had the #1 Seed within their grasp, or at worst, the #2 Seed and the AFC East Division title. But again, they choked and crapped the bad and ended up as the 6th Seed.

Being entertaining for a few games is one thing, but when they couldn't beat the good teams or win when the games were important and really mattered, that's not the sign of a good team. IOW, this team is all flash and no substance. Teams reach the Super Bowl by winning in the playoffs, not by having the most highlight reel plays. Under Flores, Gesicki made a lot of nice catches, but that didn't get them to the playoffs. And before that, Hartline made a lot of amazing sideline circus catches, but those exciting catches didn't get Miami to the Super Bowl.

 

[phinsforlife]

If you don't think Tua gives us a better chance to win than Skylar you are delusional

nice try i didn't say that.

 

[gofins60]

It’s a strange time. As you pointed out in one of your posts, Tua was not handled well by Flores his first couple of seasons coming off of that hip injury. He should’ve had a red shirt rookie season, covid didnt help any either. The combination of it taking awhile for him to recover physically, and the way that Flores treated him, the whole Deshaun Watson saga, contributed to a narrative developing about him that is hyper crticical vs most other QBs, and somewhat unfair. He definitely has areas to improve upon, but he has show flashes of being elite and some elite traits, yet he has not answered every question yet by not playing well at the end of this season.

I get the frustration, but I believe that McDaniel and the FO believe in him and are all in with him, and I hope that Grier does what seems so obvious and addresses that Offensive Line as the priority this off season. Kansas City showed you how you beat a team like the Ravens in Baltimore in January when they came into their stadium and punched them in the mouth by running the football right down their throats and playing good defense vs Lamar Jackson. Mahomes wasn’t overwhelming in that game, but he did make some plays when he needed to, but at the end of the day, it was their running game, power running game, and defense that really won the day for them there.

Our Oline depth was too thin, and Eichenberg isn’t the answer starting anywhere, that guy has career backup written all over him. Conner Williams will be injured likely when the season starts. I’d re-sign Hunt, and draft Jackson Powers Johnson in the first round if he’s available, or the next best available lineman if he’s not, and maybe draft another lineman with the second round pick or one of the top receivers available as it is a deep class, preferably someone big bodied who can threaten the seam and be a not a comically short target in the red area.

At 330 pounds JPJ can anchor the center of that line and add a power running and short yardage game to the running game which is sorely needed not only for increasing red zone efficiency, and 3rd down conversions, but also as something we can go to when all of the cutesy motion stuff of our offense isn’t on the table due to crowd noise when we are away.

McDaniel also needs to add a quick strick no huddle package together for Tua for when the offense is out of synch that we can use with and improved running game (which he needs to stick with and not get away from especially when it’s working) and the offense should be much improved and tough Enough to hold up vs playoff teams in December and January.

I think Tua has what it takes, but we need to have some options when the offense is out of synch, or on the road to have more diversity, and consistency, and that’s not all on Tua, although that doesn’t mean he doesn’t need to improve on some things as well and step up in big games.

What I can say is I’ve been a fan since about 1975, and I can tell you that you should enjoy it when it is fun to watch and exciting because with this team at least, there have been games that were right up there with Marino’s prime in terms of expectation, excitement and enjoyment, but with higher expectations, come bigger disappointments when things don’t pan out the way we hope, yet people forget how bad it’s been for so long and lose perspective…

While you make a lot of sense, don't get your hopes up. IMO, Grier will never prioritize the o-line; it's been an issue for many years and still is... he either doesn't want to or can't fix it. He needs to have someone else build the o-line.

And, it's the same with McDaniel. He's not going to learn over the off-season how to effectively and strategically call plays because he has no experience doing that. He loves that cutesy motion stuff with fancy blocking and that's all he's going to do. What kind of team never runs a hurry-up offense when it would be smart to do it? A team run by a clueless idiot, that's who. You have to be stupid (or clueless) if you keep trying to force-feed the ball over the middle to a covered Hill and/or Waddle, instead of dumping it off to an open guy for an easy 1st down to keep the drive alive. And, McDaniel is the guy who'd rather go for it on 4th and short in the Red Zone by having Tua throw a corner fade in the End Zone to a short WR instead of kicking the FG in a close game.

McDaniel is not going to get better. Look at the TE position, for example. Smythe was targeted just 43 times in the regular season because McDaniel preferred throwing to Hill no matter what. Gesicki wasn't great, was a terrible blocker and couldn't get YAC, but he made a lot of nice catches and moved the sticks under Flores. Under McDaniel, he was forced to block and they rarely threw to him. Basically, the top teams all have and use a good TE, but McDaniel ignores the position. He needs to go!

 

[Golphindolphin]

a clueless idiot, that's who. I have to be stupid (and/or clueless)

There, I fixed it for ya. McD is many things, idiot is not one of them. Stop it.

 

[ladeback]

I would believe this if Miami struggles next season. Now? I don't think so.

 

[gofins60]

There, I fixed it for ya. McD is many things, idiot is not one of them. Stop it.

Well, you're right. McDaniel is not an idiot, but when it comes to effective playcalling, he is clueless. In his defense, it's because he has no experience as a real OC and has no business calling plays and being a HC.

 

[Bob512]

Well, you're right. McDaniel is not an idiot, but when it comes to effective playcalling, he is clueless. In his defense, it's because he has no experience as a real OC and has no business calling plays and being a HC.

How are you defining “effective”

Arguably, he has the top or near the top ranked offense in the NFL. I am not sure how you accomplish that by being clueless.

I am not a fan of his timing of some calls and he gets pass happy in the red zone at times, but the idea he doesn’t belong as a HC after taking his team to the playoffs the last two years makes no sense

 

[gofins60]

How are you defining “effective”

Arguably, he has the top or near the top ranked offense in the NFL. I am not sure how you accomplish that by being clueless.

I am not a fan of his timing of some calls and he gets pass happy in the red zone at times, but the idea he doesn’t belong as a HC after taking his team to the playoffs the last two years makes no sense

I might be a little hard on him, but IMO what good is a top ranked offense when you keep losing to the good teams and struggle to sustain drives and score when the games are important and really matter? The term top ranked has to do with stats, but the only stat that matters is wins. You can even delve deeper into the wins stat and see that his wins came mostly against bad teams and not against top teams. And, a lot of this has to do with McDaniel's playcalling and in-game management. If he can outscore bad teams but not good teams, that means that whatever the defense on those good teams were doing to disrupt his offense, McDaniel was unable to counter and make the necessary adjustments to be successful. Maybe clueless is a bit harsh, but what else would you call it? Because of his inexperience, he doesn't know how to overcome that type of adversity.

Sure, having lots of yards and a 70 point game is impressive... on paper. Those stats didn't help Miami when they had the #1 Seed within their grasp and choked their way all the way down to #6, and they were lucky to get that. We've seen teams under .500 win their Division and make the playoffs, so just making the playoffs isn't that special, especially when 43.75% of all the teams make the playoffs every year.

 

[Ray R]

Ahead in the AFC East by 3 games with 5 games left...and blew it! = not good enough! The goal is to win a Super Bowl...not just limp into the playoffs.

Getting there was half the fun. I'm sorry to hear you missed the boat on the first half. - LOL

When you start to complain the even though we got in, we limped in is misleading.
The fact that we got in after losing the lead in the AFC East, says a lot of good things were going on up until the end of the season. And that was playing with the worst injury hit any team in recent memory has had to deal with.

We have the team we need to be competitive. We are going to make improvements like every other team this year. While our defense improved last year, this year with a more motivated DC, I anticipate we will do even better.

As far as injuries this upcoming year - who really knows?

 

[phinsforlife]

I might be a little hard on him, but IMO what good is a top ranked offense when you keep losing to the good teams and struggle to sustain drives and score when the games are important and really matter? The term top ranked has to do with stats, but the only stat that matters is wins. You can even delve deeper into the wins stat and see that his wins came mostly against bad teams and not against top teams. And, a lot of this has to do with McDaniel's playcalling and in-game management. If he can outscore bad teams but not good teams, that means that whatever the defense on those good teams were doing to disrupt his offense, McDaniel was unable to counter and make the necessary adjustments to be successful. Maybe clueless is a bit harsh, but what else would you call it? Because of his inexperience, he doesn't know how to overcome that type of adversity.

Sure, having lots of yards and a 70 point game is impressive... on paper. Those stats didn't help Miami when they had the #1 Seed within their grasp and choked their way all the way down to #6, and they were lucky to get that. We've seen teams under .500 win their Division and make the playoffs, so just making the playoffs isn't that special, especially when 43.75% of all the teams make the playoffs every year.

why do u think the fault lies with mcdaniel and not certain players on the offense?

 

[Highzenga]

I cannot see the argument for retaining Grier if this team does not at least advance in the playoffs this year.
He's been the GM since 2016, it doesn't take this long to win a playoff game.
The Eagles have been rebuilt twice and made the super bowl twice, winning one, in the span Grier has been GM.

We all know it was tannenbaum calling the shots until the rebuild. Grier is judged from the start of the rebuild on. He’s put together one of the most talented rosters in the league. Winning playoff games isn’t on him.

 

[Kyndig]

While you make a lot of sense, don't get your hopes up. IMO, Grier will never prioritize the o-line; it's been an issue for many years and still is... he either doesn't want to or can't fix it. He needs to have someone else build the o-line.

And, it's the same with McDaniel. He's not going to learn over the off-season how to effectively and strategically call plays because he has no experience doing that. He loves that cutesy motion stuff with fancy blocking and that's all he's going to do. What kind of team never runs a hurry-up offense when it would be smart to do it? A team run by a clueless idiot, that's who. You have to be stupid (or clueless) if you keep trying to force-feed the ball over the middle to a covered Hill and/or Waddle, instead of dumping it off to an open guy for an easy 1st down to keep the drive alive. And, McDaniel is the guy who'd rather go for it on 4th and short in the Red Zone by having Tua throw a corner fade in the End Zone to a short WR instead of kicking the FG in a close game.

McDaniel is not going to get better. Look at the TE position, for example. Smythe was targeted just 43 times in the regular season because McDaniel preferred throwing to Hill no matter what. Gesicki wasn't great, was a terrible blocker and couldn't get YAC, but he made a lot of nice catches and moved the sticks under Flores. Under McDaniel, he was forced to block and they rarely threw to him. Basically, the top teams all have and use a good TE, but McDaniel ignores the position. He needs to go!

I share that fear regarding Grier and the Oline, although he has proven to be collaborative. If McDaniels wants Oline as a priority, then I think they might go that route considering the evidence of what happened last year with the injuries bs when the line was healthy, and with all of the transition there. However, they also may believe they can just insert anyone there and coach them up which I think would be a mistake.

Regarding Mcdaniel, I’m not sure why you are so harsh with him. He is intelligent, and my hope is that with an off season to study the teams failures he will see what is obvious to the rest of us and adjust accordingly. He’s done well enough to earn at least that much hope I should think, not sure why some have as hostile and as negative of an opinion as you do of him, but to each their own…